Cooker condemned...advice on a new/second hand/small etc

[Nb Gwithian]

Hello help needed please! I recently bought a 32ft, 1973 Barney boat and today the cooker (prob same age as the boat) a flavel courier as condemned:(

 

I need a replacement - happy with 2nd hand but ideally don't want to spend a fortune. I am struggling to find much online except the £400 ish voyager 4500. Also I need something that will pass the bss and doesn't take up too much space.

 

Is there nothing out there less than £400 or I being v thick?!

 

Thank you kindly

K

[Mendip-Locks]

£229 here http://www.westmidlandselectricalsuperstore.com/statesman-50cm-single-cavity-gas-cooker-_-legacy_50gslf:3348

[Bod]

What ever you buy, to be used on a boat, it must have a Flame Failure device fitted. This is a requirement of the Boat Safety Scheme.

Not all domestic cookers have this, be careful when buying. New cookers sold for use in flats usually have FFD's fitted.

Also if buying domestic, it will need the correct jets for LPG. Some can be changed, some can't!

 

Bod

[MtB]

Hello help needed please! I recently bought a 32ft, 1973 Barney boat and today the cooker (prob same age as the boat) a flavel courier as condemned:(

 

I need a replacement - happy with 2nd hand but ideally don't want to spend a fortune. I am struggling to find much online except the £400 ish voyager 4500. Also I need something that will pass the bss and doesn't take up too much space.

 

Is there nothing out there less than £400 or I being v thick?!

 

Thank you kindly

K

 

 

It always bothers me to hear tales like this.

 

The vast majority of appliances 'condemned' are done for commercial reasons suiting the executioner rather than on the genuine basis of gas safety.

 

If an appliance is genuinely dangerous then the gas bod has two options:

 

1) Condemn the appliance by issuing a written Warning Notice of the fault, then labeling and isolating the appliance, OR

 

2) Fix the fault

 

He nearly always conveniently forgets the second.

 

What reason does your written Warning Notice give for condemning it?

[Nb Gwithian]

Thanks to all and thanks Mike for being bothered

 

So the advice was (this is verbatim don't have the paper in front of me)

1. It is very old and should be replaced (!)

2. One ring is burning orange tipped flames, and should not be used.

3. Oven is burning orange flames and should not be used.

 

Not written down but said to someone else (I was at work just got this on phone)... the burners are v dirty and beyond cleaning.

 

This was not a bss but rather the gas man coming to service the water heater/ disconnect the gas fridge and he tested cooker. Bss is due next April, so not sure if changes to requirements have happened since last bss?

 

Bottom line is - need a cooker, and it needs to pass bss next year.

 

Thoughts rants/ideas on what to do appreciated.

K

[lampini]

We are thinking of replacing our gawdawful "Dometic" marine cooker with this.....

 

http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/household-appliances/cooking/cookers/flavel-fsbg51s-gas-cooker-silver-15050644-pdt.html

 

A mate has one on his boat that just passed it's BSS....

[MtB]

So the advice was (this is verbatim don't have the paper in front of me)

1. It is very old and should be replaced (!)

2. One ring is burning orange tipped flames, and should not be used.

3. Oven is burning orange flames and should not be used.

 

 

 

 

1) THis is not a good start. An old appliance does not need replacing just because its old. . My whole business model is based on looking after consumers who don't buy this load of insulting twaddle.

 

2) Hmmm. Did anyone try cleaning it?3)

 

3) Same as 2. I bet dismantling the burner and cleaning it will fix this.

 

 

 

 

 

Not written down but said to someone else (I was at work just got this on phone)... the burners are v dirty and beyond cleaning.

 

Really...? Has anyone tried?

 

Even so if you'd just like a new cooker anyway, then the one linked by Lampimi looks a bargain, except that the depth fron to back is 600mm, 100mm deeper than your current cooker is likely to be. Can the space accommodate the extra 4"?

[Nb Gwithian]

Thanks again to all. Mike, I cleaned the cooker, enamel, rings, oven etc but haven't attacked the burners, but am happy to give it a try. Suggestions on what to use 'elbow grease plus whatever' appreciated. Soak in bicarb??

 

I think I will be struggling with the extra space on the linked cookers. Though thanks for listing, they are definitely making me think outside of my narrow box. My other issue is limited electrics right now so prefer a cooker that doesn't have to be wired in so a battery ignition or matches ;-)

[MtB]

My basic Bompani cooker is 500 x 500 with four gas rings, and oven with grill in the top. No electrics. Cost about £300 five years ago.

Thanks again to all. Mike, I cleaned the cooker, enamel, rings, oven etc but haven't attacked the burners, but am happy to give it a try. Suggestions on what to use 'elbow grease plus whatever' appreciated. Soak in bicarb??

 

 

I'd be using a wire brush and pipe cleaners etc. You just need to get rid of all the rust/burned food/loose debris.

[Nb Gwithian]

Excellent - thank you all, I'll let you know how the cleaning goes

 

K

[Tony Brooks]

And i it has lift out burner assemblies (most old ones do) taking them out, shaking the rust out of the gas "tubes" and giving the while thing a good shake and blow through. Some of the really old ones have an adjustment "paddle"that allows you to alter the gas air mixture to maintain a nice blue flame and to stop the flames lifting and roaring if they have too much air

[bizzard]

Jets can get restricted with goo too, which means the flame will get more air than gas. Jets revealed when the burners removed, old type or new and hob type. Probe the jets gently with a bit if wire. Most jets are removable. Soak em for a while in white spirit, meths, petrol and then blow the jet through with air.

[Nb Gwithian]

Again thank you all for the very helpful advice and support on this.

 

One more question... my current cooker doesn't have flame failure devices - ultimately does this mean it will fail the bss next year? If that is the case then will have to be a new cooker if no then will clean the burners etc.

[alan_fincher]

One more question... my current cooker doesn't have flame failure devices - ultimately does this mean it will fail the bss next year? If that is the case then will have to be a new cooker if no then will clean the burners etc.

 

Can you be more precise, please?

 

Doesn't have flame failure devices on any part of it, or doesn't have them on some parts, (for example oven does, but rings on hob do not).

 

Do you know when it was fitted to the boat, please, as FFDs on everything are mandatory only if it was installed on or after 3rd January 2000. Before that date there are exemptions.

 

I'm not sure how they interpret "continuously burning device", but I suspect this may include ovens.

 

Certainly our old Vanette hob and ovens that were a "pre 2000" installation passed the BSS without question, but there was an FFD just on the oven, which may well be required. (But if your boat has been passing BSSs since 2000, you may well have that)

Quote from BSS documentation....

 

For LPG appliances:

All the burners and pilot lights of LPG appliances installed on or after

3 January 2000 must be fitted with a device that automatically shuts

off the LPG supply if the burner flame fails.

LPG appliances installed before 3 January 2000 must be fitted with

a device that automatically shuts off the LPG supply if the burner

flame fails on:

. the burners on catalytic appliances; and,

. appliances with continuously-burning flames; and,

. pilot light burners.

 

 

[Machpoint005]

My understanding is that a pre-2000 cooker doesn't need a FFD. You might get a warning on the BSS inspection but it's not a failure.

[Nb Gwithian]

Thank you all, as mentioned previously this is a flavel courier cooker, circa 1973, fitted when the boat was built circa 1973. It has passed bss 2012. As far as I am aware (and I am no expert) it has no cut outs, either on top burners, grill or oven.

 

 

Ultimately would like to replace, but right now cash is short and if I can keep this going for another year (and bss) that would preferable.

[alan_fincher]

Thank you all, as mentioned previously this is a flavel courier cooker, circa 1973, fitted when the boat was built circa 1973. It has passed bss 2012. As far as I am aware (and I am no expert) it has no cut outs, either on top burners, grill or oven.

 

 

Ultimately would like to replace, but right now cash is short and if I can keep this going for another year (and bss) that would preferable.

 

Do you not have to hold the button in for at least a short while if you are lighting the oven?

 

If not, it might be sensible to agree with the SS office in advance of an inspection if that is OK.

 

I would say whether an oven (in particular) qualifies as an "appliance with continuously-burning flames" is a bit ambiguous. It would be better if they told you what fell into that category and what does not. You could argue even a ring on a hob is an "appliance with continuously-burning flames" - well it is, when it is actually alight!

[Machpoint005]

I think that reference just means a pilot light, does it not?

[MtB]

I have in my whole 40 year career only seen one gas oven without a flame supervision device, and it was made in about 1930.

 

It was a beauty and I took it home and used it in my own kitchen for ten years.

[Nb Gwithian]

Not even my courier cooker is that old! Sounds gt though. I will start the clean tomorrow. Not quite sure how to extract the oven burner, top hob burners I have had out before, though.

 

Might be seeking more advice on that one.

 

Thank you to all, gt to know there are people out there to turn to and ask

 

K

PS yes you do have to hold the knob in to turn/light gas on hob, grill and oven, there are no pilot lights.

[bizzard]

I have in my whole 40 year career only seen one gas oven without a flame supervision device, and it was made in about 1930.

 

It was a beauty and I took it home and used it in my own kitchen for ten years.

My 30 year old or more Super Calor gas half size has no flame supervision at all, Apart from when closing the oven door, which calms the flame a bit, as most gas ovens do. And banging the door with a cake baking in it can cause the cake to sink in the middle.

[MtB]

My 30 year old or more Super Calor gas half size has no flame supervision at all, Apart from when closing the oven door, which calms the flame a bit, as most gas ovens do. And banging the door with a cake baking in it can cause the cake to sink in the middle.

 

 

Ah that old chestnut, excuses excuses, yeah yeah heard them all before!

 

Nothing to do with failure to beat the mix enough with a fork before loading it into the oven then?!

 

[mross]

Caustic Soda is very good for cleaning ovens and shelves but will burn skin. You can buy a kit that includes a bag to put all your bits in and let it soak overnight. I used to keep a vat of it in the garage. It would dissolve all the grease and carbon in the burners, with minimum effort. But follow the instructions carefully. Adding water to a strong solution can cause it to boil so you must add caustic soda to a good volume of water. You can get 500g at Wilko for two quid,

Edited October 8, 2016 by mross

[Tony Brooks]

and for goodness sake do not mix it in an aluminium saucepan. If you do the boiling Mr Ross warns about becomes all but explosive throwing the corrosive solution everywhere and you will have successfully produced a colander. Now, how would I know this!!!!!!!

[Nb Gwithian]

Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282204391487

 

Morning all, my cooker obsession continues! Any thoughts on this (see link above). Would it fail bss as it may not have flame safety?!

 

Words of wisdom appreciated (regarding ebay cooker

K