Assistance with turning at Sutton Stop

[Ray T]

Took Millie the Mutt to Sutton Stop for a walk today. She decided to walk beneath the bridge and I noticed these:

 

 

 

There is one each side of the bridge on the north eastern end.

 

Wondered what they were for until I consulted the Rolt / Longdon book:

 

 

 

Amazing what one misses!

 

Do any of these exist on other bridges or is this unique because of the tight turn?

 

 

[OldGoat]

Ray T, on 23 Jul 2016 - 1:46 PM, said:Ray T, on 23 Jul 2016 - 1:46 PM, said:

Took Millie the Mutt to Sutton Stop for a walk today. She decided to walk beneath the bridge and I noticed these:

 

DSCF2836.JPG

 

There is one each side of the bridge on the north eastern end.

 

Wondered what they were for until I consulted the Rolt / Longdon book:

 

Sutton Stop.jpg

 

Amazing what one misses!

 

Do any of these exist on other bridges or is this unique because of the tight turn?

 

 

Now - were they there for a line to go through the ring - or for a line to just drape over the top as the wear pattern indicates?

 

The B&W photo indicates the former.

Edited July 23, 2016 by OldGoat

[Ray T]

I imagine it would be quicker and safer to wrap a rope around the fitting than thread it through the hole.

[FadeToScarlet]

I think the bollard on the ground is used for the cotton line, I'd guess that held the top of a roller so the line wouldn't get snagged under the bridge

[Ray T]

I think the bollard on the ground is used for the cotton line, I'd guess that held the top of a roller so the line wouldn't get snagged under the bridge

 

Yes, a roller would fit.

 

 

[alan_fincher]

There is one each side of the bridge on the north eastern end.

 

Wondered what they were for until I consulted the Rolt / Longdon book:

 

Sutton Stop.jpg

 

 

But I don't think it is actually being used for anything in that picture is it? The line is just being held, I think?

 

Incidentally this is one of the many miscaptioned pictures in that otherwise excellent book. Sonia Rolt describes the boat as a butty, despite it clearly being a motor.

 

I think it more likely that when a line was actually put around something, that the large cast iron bollards were used. Page 80 of the same book shows this in practice.

 

EDIT: You have just added the relevant picture as I was posting this!

Edited July 23, 2016 by alan_fincher

[___]

But I don't think it is actually being used for anything in that picture is it? The line is just being held, I think?

 

Incidentally this is one of the many miscaptioned pictures in that otherwise excellent book. Sonia Rolt describes the boat as a butty, despite it clearly being a motor.

 

I think it more likely that when a line was actually put around something, that the large cast iron bollards were used. Page 80 of the same book shows this in practice.

EDIT: You have just added the relevant picture as I was posting this!

I must admit when I first looked at it I thought it was a butty because of what looks like the low cabin height but it's actually the rail on the front of the motor cabin that looks like the roof at first glance. The butty is presumably the boat on which the deckboard is visible with the rest of the boat obscured by the day boat it is passing.

 

Anyone know which Mr Grantham this is?

 

JP

[X Alan W]

IIRC there was still a roller of sorts in place in 52/53,although the amount of wear gave it a rattling good headache, again, IIRC It was removed when repairs/painting of the bridge was carried out, & not refitted. From a fading memory I can not ever recall it being used in the way it was designed to be used, most use was made using the bollards. some pairs crews used a long shaft to push the butty stern out with the fore end line around the bollard, at that time the bridge hole was shallow & a deeply loaded boats tended to go straight on just before, in, & after the bridge instead of turning, until it was dredged in the mid 50's

[ChimneyChain]

This picture from crt archive shows I think one of the rollers in situ.

 

Darren

Edited July 23, 2016 by ChimneyChain

[john6767]

The bridge at Birchills Junction has rollers; BCN Challenge clue, there are 3 rollers, I guess the 4th was never needed as the rope would not have contacted that side of the bridge on the offside.

 

http://canalplan.org.uk/cgi-bin/showstuff.cgi?mode=photo&id=1i_h7d

[AMModels]

This picture from crt archive shows I think one of the rollers in situ.

 

Darrenimage.pngimage.png

 

Good spot, it looks like the roller is there for sure.

 

The bridge at Birchills Junction has rollers; BCN Challenge clue, there are 3 rollers, I guess the 4th was never needed as the rope would not have contacted that side of the bridge on the offside.

 

http://canalplan.org.uk/cgi-bin/showstuff.cgi?mode=photo&id=1i_h7d

 

Another good spot, you can see how that corner wouldnt have needed any protection whereas the other three could all have been on the ropes with boats coming from the three ways at the junction.

[Derek R.]

 

But I don't think it is actually being used for anything in that picture is it? The line is just being held, I think?

 

(snipped)

 

No, Mr. Grantham is holding the line which is wrapped around the top pin of the former roller. Laura Carter is using the bollard correctly. Note the grooves in the stonework from lines, horse drawn or by use of the bollards. Those rollers would have saved the stonework from being cut so much.

[Laurence Hogg]

The bridge at Birchills Junction has rollers; BCN Challenge clue, there are 3 rollers, I guess the 4th was never needed as the rope would not have contacted that side of the bridge on the offside.

 

http://canalplan.org.uk/cgi-bin/showstuff.cgi?mode=photo&id=1i_h7d

 

"Sneyd junction" on the Wyrley had the same and also a couple of the bridges on tight bends.

[alan_fincher]

 

No, Mr. Grantham is holding the line which is wrapped around the top pin of the former roller. Laura Carter is using the bollard correctly. Note the grooves in the stonework from lines, horse drawn or by use of the bollards. Those rollers would have saved the stonework from being cut so much.

 

Well it is hard to see in the picture as posted on my "micro" laptop.

 

But the uphill slant of the line, i think probably means the rope is passing round Mr Grantham, and back over his shoulder. He is pulling it downwards, and the rope below looks slack.

 

I can't see anything else playing a par, but I may well be misreading it.

 

As an aside does anyone know who Mrs Laura Carter was. Presumably not the surviving Laura Carter, as I think she would have been mucch younger, and also not a "Mrs".

[archie57]

Don't forget that not all of the pictures in Mrs Rolt's book are correctly captioned!

[___]

Don't forget that not all of the pictures in Mrs Rolt's book are correctly captioned!

I appreciate you may be trying to be helpful and this isn't aimed at you; but could we ever forget?

 

You can't make mention of the poor woman's name on here without someone telling us this. It was 45 to 50 years between the photographs being taken and the publication of the book. It appears research was undertaken and efforts made to correctly identify folk but some errors were probably inevitable. The narrative is necessary to tell the story and make it a complete work; it isn't a technical book solely for canal enthusiasts. Without her efforts over many years - through which the boating community largely had a negative stigma - would this incredible set of photographs have seen the light of day?

 

It does seem a bit churlish sometimes.

 

JP

[archie57]

I know she did her best and consulted others, but I agree you can't always correctly identify pictures taken half a century ago - I can't give you the names of my classmates in my old school photos.

[Derek R.]

 

Well it is hard to see in the picture as posted on my "micro" laptop.

 

But the uphill slant of the line, i think probably means the rope is passing round Mr Grantham, and back over his shoulder. He is pulling it downwards, and the rope below looks slack.

 

(snipped)

 

On a 20" desktop screen, and enlarged, it can be seen that the line from the T stud is being handled by Mr. Humphries left hand over the bridge stud (though as it passes across in front of his body it is not very clear) and his right hand is allowing the tail to fall. The line is being taughtened by the pull, and is whipping up slightly to curve in an arc at the moment the shutter is opened. No way would the line be behind him at this point as that would drag him forward - he is standing at ease and upright, allowing the strain is being taken in a controlled manner via the bridge stud.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Derek R.