lister overheated - what now

[magpie patrick]

Lutine is jinxed. I've finally started the big move and in Harecastle tunnel her habitual slight smoking got much worse and the revs started dropping. As I eased off upon leaving the tunnel the engine died. Overheating.

 

So - what now? Lister SR2 I think. I'm fairly certain this problem got to crises in the tunnel, she was only her usual idiosyncratic self beforehand and on a test cruise of 4 or 5 miles a few weeks ago no real sign of trouble.

 

Will the engine restart? If so is it wise to limp on to a boatyard or should I stay here and get someone out. What exactly has happened?

 

The tunnel keeper seems to know about these engines and is telling me horror stories of complete rebuilds and so on!

[RLWP]

I can tell you non horror stories if you want

 

Have you checked the prop?

 

Richard

 

MORE: Yes, of course it will restart when it cools down, and run. Listers will run happily with all kinds of disorders

Edited May 7, 2016 by RLWP

[magpie patrick]

Thanks Richard - actually the first thing I did was phone you ;-)

 

Believe it or not - the prop hadn't occurred to me... now to wrestle with that blasted weed hatch!

[Manxcat]

Check that there is enough oil in the sump, check that all the cooling airflow is clear, (no bags or rags sucked in).

Check nothing around the prop making the engine work harder.

See if she will start.

If she starts OK are there any strange noises, leaks, worse smoke than usual.

If she seems OK, try a little trip.

Are you going north or south?

 

Good Luck!

 

(Edit - overtaken by Richard - listen to him he knows this stuff !)

Edited May 7, 2016 by Manxcat

[magpie patrick]

Non horror stories was what I needed btw...

Heading south, thanks Manxcat

[magpie patrick]

Well prop was clear but as the tunnel keeper had asked me to move her 3 or 4 times on ropes (you'll need to move it over there - no not THERE, THERE! Can you move it back a ring - actually the other side of the canal's best...) something big but loose may have come off. It's restarted anyway. Now let's see what happens..

[gazza]

fins can become blocked with leaves, oil mist, dog hair etc causing overheating. Has the cowlings been off anytime in the near past?

Edited May 7, 2016 by gazza

[Tony Brooks]

Have you checked the sump oil level and given it a sniff and feel? They can give those symptoms when they take it into their head to dilute the engine oil with diesel.

[magpie patrick]

Thanks all -several things to work on. Lutine has now made it nearly to the locks at Etruria where I'm stopping for the night. Didn't push the pace so answers may be needed before I get to the Thames (where more revs may be needed) however that could be anything up to a month off yet!

The tunnel keeper was actually very helpful despite his sometimes apocalyptic outlook!

Edited May 8, 2016 by magpie patrick

[magnetman]

Have you checked the sump oil level and given it a sniff and feel? They can give those symptoms when they take it into their head to dilute the engine oil with diesel.

Good advice!!

 

I had this on an SR2 on my first Nb in 1994. I was going up the cut near Rugeley and it was stopping in locks - like it was seizing up. It would restart (reluctantly) After doing this several times it ran away completely out of control and threw white smoke everywhere it was very impressive.

 

Luckily the decompressor levers were still there and not broken so I used them to stop it.

 

Parts of the fuel system are enclosed behind a protective panel (I assume to make the engine more weatherproof in industrial situations) so you can get fuel leaks filling up the sump, thinning the lube oil and eventually getting into the combustion chamber (crankcase breather?) Then all hell breaks loose.

And the thinning of the oil is what leads to the seizing up.

Edited May 7, 2016 by magnetman

[magpie patrick]

Thanks all - I've checked the oil now the engine is stone cold - it is thin (I have new stuff to compare it with) but then it got cooked when the engine overheated. There seems to be a lot of it but my dipstick only has a minimum mark, and I don't think there is more than usual - I will admit that it is normally "well over the minimum and that's all I check.

 

So oil change soon - for the moment I'm going to proceed with caution. I will be keeping an eye out for all the things the people have suggested, more suggestions welcome and I'll keep you posted

[Tony Brooks]

 

Thanks all - I've checked the oil now the engine is stone cold - it is thin (I have new stuff to compare it with) but then it got cooked when the engine overheated. There seems to be a lot of it but my dipstick only has a minimum mark, and I don't think there is more than usual - I will admit that it is normally "well over the minimum and that's all I check.

 

So oil change soon - for the moment I'm going to proceed with caution. I will be keeping an eye out for all the things the people have suggested, more suggestions welcome and I'll keep you posted

 

That sounds like a plan but please check the oil twice a day just in case it is rising on the dipstick. The last think you want is a runaway like Magnetman because it could wreck the engine and strictly speaking if it happens the engine should be stripped and at least the big end fixings renewed.

[1st ade]

 

 

 

That sounds like a plan but please check the oil twice a day just in case it is rising on the dipstick. The last think you want is a runaway like Magnetman because it could wreck the engine and strictly speaking if it happens the engine should be stripped and at least the big end fixings renewed.

 

 

What he says.

 

And think (now) how you might stop a runaway engine. Turning the electrics off won't work, nor will cutting the fuel. Piece of string on the decompressors?

[Tony Dunkley]

 

So oil change soon - for the moment I'm going to proceed with caution. I will be keeping an eye out for all the things the people have suggested, more suggestions welcome and I'll keep you posted

 

If you haven't already done so, then I would suggest also checking both crankcase breather tubes before going any further.

Blocked, or partially blocked, breathers can contribute to engines to running hotter than normal.

[magnetman]

 

What he says.

 

And think (now) how you might stop a runaway engine. Turning the electrics off won't work, nor will cutting the fuel. Piece of string on the decompressors?

I used the decompressors levers but they are sometimes snapped off or removed altogether.

 

Just a thought - a runaway engine in a tunnel could be incredibly dangerous and even fatal the amount of smoke the engine produces is really very impressive !!

 

I think a CO2 fire extinguisher might be a good thing to carry although iirc the BS scheme doesn't like them..

 

Squirt it in the air intake. I have not tried it but it may work?

[Tony Brooks]

I am not convinced that it will. I suspect, unlike modern units, the flywheel will have enough inertia to keep the engine going until the likely size of extinguisher runs out.

 

I am also not very happy with the thought of using the de-compressors in case there was sufficient stretch in the big end bolts and con-rod at speed to allow the piston to hit the valves.

 

I suspect if it were mine and it raw away I would point it a the bank, leave it in gear, and then depending upon what it sounded like get an enormous wad of rag with all its ends folded into the middle so they were all inside the wad an hold it against the air intake but even that may not work. On a Lister it could probably suck air through the various gaskets & seals and down the breather tubes.

 

Much better to institute a regime that lets you know the oil is rising and sort it out long before there is any danger.

Edited May 8, 2016 by Tony Brooks

[Neil Smith]

Cut another slot with a hacksaw an inch above the low mark and don't let it get above the mark and drain or pump some out if it does until you can do the oil change.

 

Neil

[magpie patrick]

Thanks Neil and others. I have now moved about 5 miles and five locks to Bridge 106, I'm stopping here for at least a few hours.

 

I have been through the tunnel - I neither want nor need to go back through it!

 

I photographed the dipstick when I checked this morning. In a couple if hours I will check again and compare. The second notch would also be sensible.

 

After running for three hours the top of the engine is almost but not quite too hot to touch. Yesterday after the tunnel even the dipstick was too hot to touch!

 

One reason for this stop is too follow up some of your suggestions. Where I am I could stay long enough to do a lot of things - it's pleasant safe and near a road. Stone and it's boatyard and car spares shop would be better, but only if it's safe to get there!

PS Decompressors intact and working.

PS Decompressors intact and working.

[Neil Smith]

Roughly how much above the low mark is the oil level.

 

Neil

[bizzard]

If and when you drain the oil out, put 9.1/2 pts back in and then mark the full mark on the dipstick, try to keep the boat level whilst doing this by standing in the middle. You will then know its correct. The mark already on it might be correct.

Also a simple way to give the cylinder barrel cooling fins a clean up is to mix up a strong solution of washing up liquid and water. Warm the engine up and warm up the mixture to match, 'more or less the same temp is ok'. Whilst the engine is running pour the mixture into the flywheel housing through the mesh air intake above the flywheel and the flywheel cooling fan will pick it up and chuck it all through and around the cooling fins ect. You will see bubbles oozing out of gaps in the engines tin casing, but this is good, it means its arrived there and is doing its job. Obviously not as good as dismantling and cleaning the cooling fins with scrapers but its the next best thing. All the excess solution will soon evaporate away with engine heat and also drip out into the engine drip tray.

Edited May 8, 2016 by bizzard

[RLWP]

The second notch would also be sensible.

 

We probably have a dipstick

 

Richard

[Manxcat]

Glad to hear you were able to restart OK.

 

Might just have been the Kidsgrove Boggart playing with you....Least you are off its patch now

 

Good Luck and keep us updated.

[MtB]

The dipstick only having one mark is most puzzling.

 

It's almost as though someone cut it off at the lower mark leaving just the upper mark. Possibly because the oil level was always so high. Very misguided but possible...

[magpie patrick]

Bizzard, are you serious? If so then I might, but only might, try that.

 

Everyone, for an update - whilst I'm being very cautious the engine always has, to my ear been a bit cantankerous. I say to my ear, I've only done 2-300 miles in Lutine (and most of that in 2014) compared to several thousand in Ripple which had a water cooled BMC

 

There is no doubt it was hotter coming out of Harecastle (2 1/2 hours running from Scholar Green) and it semi-seized when I took the revs off. Running for nearly fours this morning didn't get it THAT hot, I'm just not sure how hot it should get and lack confidence in it.

 

The ducts for the air intake are clear, I've shone a torch down them

 

There is too much oil - however the level isn't increasing. I need to drain some off for a start

 

Mike, I've looked at the dipstick again, it does have two marks, but very close together.

 

 

 

We probably have a dipstick

 

Richard

 

I might ring you - I'm out of my comfort zone with the whole thing. I know you do this for a business so so obviously I will pay for advice and action, and don't expect you to post free of charge on the forum!

[gazza]

The ducts being clear doesn't mean the fins are.

 

I worked on an SR3 that had totally blocked fins but clear ducts.

 

It was a tired old neglected beast mind.