Batteries designed to fail?

[bag 'o' bones]

I was talking to a friend of mine who used to work for Lucus. Seems that their lead acid batteries were designed with fusible links within the battery casing that were designed to last for approximately for 2 years - the guarantee period. Once the fuse burnt through the battery was effectively scrap regardless of the condition of the plates that potentially had many more years of life in them.

 

I've just pulled the batteries of our boat which should have loads of life in them. Interestingly each battery has one dud cell which makes me wonder..........

Edited April 2, 2016 by bag 'o' bones

[Flyboy]

I was talking to a friend of mine who used to work for Lucus. Seems that their lead acid batteries were designed with fusible links within the battery casing that were designed to last for approximately for 2 years - the guarantee period. Once the fuse burnt through the battery was effectively scrap regardless of the condition of the plates that potentially had many more years of life in them.

 

I've just pulled the batteries of our boat which should have loads of life in them. Interestingly each battery has one dud cell which makes me wonder..........

I very much doubt it.

[bag 'o' bones]

I very much doubt it.

A reliable source!

[Guest]

Funny thing with modern batteries. My last car suffered sudden battery death at work one day, so the guy at the garage over the road bunged a new battery on it. I commented about the sudden death and how batteries had always died slowly in my experience. He claimed it was now quite common for batteries to suddenly die.

[b0atman]

my battery on the car was dead as a dodo when I went to start it last October I think it was something to do with leaving it in March when I went boating and security system used power,this year I am disconnecting battery..

[Texasboater]

Just replaced the battery on my truck after five years. No warning of failure, it just died!

[Flyboy]

I was talking to a friend of mine who used to work for Lucus. Seems that their lead acid batteries were designed with fusible links within the battery casing that were designed to last for approximately for 2 years - the guarantee period. Once the fuse burnt through the battery was effectively scrap regardless of the condition of the plates that potentially had many more years of life in them.

 

I've just pulled the batteries of our boat which should have loads of life in them. Interestingly each battery has one dud cell which makes me wonder..........

I think it's probable that most batteries always end up failing with a cell gone. Why not investigate the failure of your batteries to get proof. How do you know there is cell gone on each one? Long gone are the days when you could measure the voltage of each cell with the exposed cell links. If there was a fusible link designed to fail at a certain time the battery would show zero volts.

Last year my boat starter battery was ok and the next day wouldn't even turn the engine, it was 9 years old. Recently my wifes Ford Fiesta battery failed overnight, it was the original Ford battery and was 12years old. It convinces to me that there is no deliberate lifeing of batteries.

Edited April 2, 2016 by Flyboy

[pete.i]

Why on earth would anybody think that manufacturing companies make anything that will last? If they all did that how would they make any money? I don't know about fusible links, although that does seem perfectly plausible to me, but certainly batteries like everything else have a finite life. My leisure batteries on my narrowboat were 4 years old and the battery on my Kia Sedona were 12 years old when I got rid of it but I fully expected to have to replace them at some point.

[bag 'o' bones]

I think it's probable that most batteries always end up failing with a cell gone. Why not investigate the failure of your batteries to get proof. How do you know there is cell gone on each one. Long gone are the days when you could measure the voltage of each cell with the exposed cell links. If there was a fusible link designed to fail at a certain time the battery would show zero volts.

The plan is to investigate further just as a matter of interest. Each battery is holding a charge of 10.9 ish which suggests that one of the cells is disconnected. On a equalisation charge 5 of the cells are fizzing away merrily the 6th is lifeless.

 

Good point

Why on earth would anybody think that manufacturing companies make anything that will last? If they all did that how would they make any money? I don't know about fusible links, although that does seem perfectly plausible to me, but certainly batteries like everything else have a finite life. My leisure batteries on my narrowboat were 4 years old and the battery on my Kia Sedona were 12 years old when I got rid of it but I fully expected to have to replace them at some point.

Well of course it goes about saying that manufacturers are not in the business to make things last too long. But a well made battery should last for the stated number of cycles rather than some sort of time expire device. Particularly when the government is constantly harping on about cutting down on waste.

Edited April 2, 2016 by bag 'o' bones

[by'eck]

I was talking to a friend of mine who used to work for Lucus. Seems that their lead acid batteries were designed with fusible links within the battery casing that were designed to last for approximately for 2 years - the guarantee period. Once the fuse burnt through the battery was effectively scrap regardless of the condition of the plates that potentially had many more years of life in them.

 

I've just pulled the batteries of our boat which should have loads of life in them. Interestingly each battery has one dud cell which makes me wonder..........

 

Same as Li-ion then. They have internal circuitry to monitor charge sequence, but can brick themselves when certain parameters are exceeded towards end of life, and to avoid possibility of explosion.

[dor]

The plan is to investigate further just as a matter of interest. Each battery is holding a charge of 10.9 ish which suggests that one of the cells is disconnected. On a equalisation charge 5 of the cells are fizzing away merrily the 6th is lifeless.

 

Good point

Well of course it goes about saying that manufacturers are not in the business to make things last too long. But a well made battery should last for the stated number of cycles rather than some sort of time expire device. Particularly when the government is constantly harping on about cutting down on waste.

 

A couple of years ago my two year old batteries (4 x 110) would appear to charge ok. Then during the evening would suddenly drop rapidly from about 12.6 volts to 10.8.

They would charge up ok when cruising the next day, then the same thing would happen during the evening.

Replaced all four and left the others in my car port ready to a trip to the scrappie. Checked them about a year later; two were showing 12.7V the others were practically dead. Obviously a single cell shorted out; I imagine the failure of one stressed the other one to fail also.

[WotEver]

Each battery is holding a charge of 10.9 ish which suggests that one of the cells is disconnected.

No, it suggests that one cell is suffering a soft short from all of the shed plate material sitting in the bottom of the battery. This is how all batteries die unless they're discarded due to excessive sulphation from consistent undercharging.

 

And yes, it will be sudden, because the cell is either shorted or it isn't.

 

Tony

[MHS]

my battery on the car was dead as a dodo when I went to start it last October I think it was something to do with leaving it in March when I went boating and security system used power,this year I am disconnecting battery..

Why not attach a small solar panel? They're really cheap these days on eBay.

[Guest]

Why not attach a small solar panel? They're really cheap these days on eBay.

That is what we have decided to do with our car this summer.

I have been warned against removing the battery.

[Witchword]

I hate things with inbuilt obsolescence. I read something recently about France actually banning the practice (de jure, mind, who knows what de facto will be) which seems to be a start.

 

Ok, leisure batteries. Mine are now not powering the invertor, something to do with showing a charge but that not converting into power? I think. Anyway, the lights work when it's dark so touch wood it's something I can save up for for a bit. Anyway, I'll be in the marina with shoreline mainly, but hope to cruise a bit at weekends and holidays, even if just to give her something to do (we won't be on the most interesting canal in the world). Are there any tips for making them last as long as possible? And also, if I go for solar panels, do they charge the batteries instead of cruising? How does it all work?

TIA and if this is too OT or diverting, please tell me and I'll start a new thread

[WotEver]

How to look after the batteries - fully charge them after each use. Easier said than done in many situations and there have been many threads about the practicality of this.

 

Solar - yes, they charge up the batteries when it's sunny. Pretty useless for 3 months of the year unless you have a huge solar array and very modest power requirements but very useful for the rest of the year when off-grid.

 

Tony

[Witchword]

Argh, I have been away 5 days and had a light on for 2 hours and the alarm is going to alert me to a fault with the gas sensor. This happened when the guy tested the batteries and disconnected them, so I have started the engine to try and charge the batteries, assuming it is detecting a loss of power. I was hoping for an early night, not a session of neighbour antagonism :'(

[bag 'o' bones]

How to look after the batteries - fully charge them after each use. Easier said than done in many situations and there have been many threads about the practicality of this.

 

Solar - yes, they charge up the batteries when it's sunny. Pretty useless for 3 months of the year unless you have a huge solar array and very modest power requirements but very useful for the rest of the year when off-grid.

 

Tony

And if you not going to be using the boat for an extended length of time and it not on the grid it would be worth pulling the batteries out and taking them home to be placed on a maintenance charger.

In our experience Lead acid is not fit for purpose if you are unable to charge them effectively.

[WotEver]

In our experience Lead acid is not fit for purpose if you are unable to charge them effectively.

Yep, I'd agree with that ?

[ditchcrawler]

Well it would be very unlikely that 3 cells would fail simultaneously. Remember the old Christmas Tree light, one bulb blows and the all go out, there was always only one blown.

[Witchword]

Any tips as to how to stop this bleddy beeping? Am running the engine but it isn't an ideal and also nothing has changed in half an hour...

[ditchcrawler]

Any tips as to how to stop this bleddy beeping? Am running the engine but it isn't an ideal and also nothing has changed in half an hour...

What is bleeping and you shouldn't be running your engine now unless your moving.

[Witchword]

The gas sensor, and I know I shouldn't but I wanted to try and get some charge into the batteries so the sensor will recognise there is power and stop beeping

[ditchcrawler]

The gas sensor, and I know I shouldn't but I wanted to try and get some charge into the batteries so the sensor will recognise there is power and stop beeping

What state are your batteries then, Have you completely flattened them?

[Witchword]

They don't work properly, something about they don't convert their charge into power. The sec? Src? Previous owners spent too little time cruising, maybe? Something like that.