My ideal boat (dreaming)

[magpie patrick]

Just airing some thoughts on a dream that is unlikely to happen but you never know - after all, this is a discussion forum so it's worth seeing what people think!

 

Juno and Lutine Bell combined are 68 feet long, which got me thinking. There are distinct advantages to two boats rather than one 68 footer, one is that I can take the diddy one out for a short cruise, another is if I ever did go travelling with both together they could go side by side in the short but wide locks of Yorkshire. Also, if you have visitors or travelling companions then two boats is a different league is personal space compares to two bedrooms under the same roof (this can apply even if one is in a relationship...)

 

Lutine and Juno have never travelled together, indeed so far they have never been within 100 miles of each other. However there is an obvious drawback in that Lutine would have to pull Juno (45 foot narrow boat pulling 23 foot cruiser) and they would always be very much two boats - to safely get from one to the other really would need me to pull into the bank, even if I pulled Juno backwards so the rear decks were together.

 

And so, one morning whilst swimming (a good time for idle thought) a vision of one long push-tug combination came to me, Not quite a bantam and mud hopper, but not far off. The idea would be two punt ended boats, one of which would, in narrow formation, push the other, but they could also be breasted up. Thoughts are:

 

Punt ended (like BW work boats often are) so that easy to step from one to the other when under way

 

the front (dumb) half would turn round for being breasted up - loosely the idea is that the connecting deck would be short on both boats, and when side by side the longer rear and front decks of the narrow formation would be next to each other.

 

I assume both halves would be of equal length, partly for ease of travelling in the breasted up formation. How far could I push the overall length before normally having to break the formation in a narrow lock, 72 feet, 73? I know some are a bare 70 foot but I wonder when the break comes between occasionally splitting the tow and nearly always doing it.

 

And before anyone says otherwise, to me one of the advantages would be two separate cabins and a short boat that could go solo on occasion

 

This would be a purpose built design, not an add on to an existing boat, and I accept the resale value would be much lower than the cost of building it. If I win the lottery, or freelancing goes spectacularly well, then that wouldn't be a problem.

 

Any thoughts? Anyone got any suggestions to build on this mad cap plan?

 

 

[billh]

We have a dredger, built by BW in 1969 on very similar lines to your dream. Two punt shaped hulls about 35ft each. The engine and digger are on one hull, the second acts a stabilising pontoon when working by being connected abreast by strong bars. When travelling the pontoon is fastened ahead by solid link bars of the what is now a pusher tug, this for narrow canals. In use the dredger is very effective (irrelevant to you). Travelling breasted up 14ft wide is pathetically slow, despite the HR2 Lister doing it's best. When in narrow pusher mode speed is more respectable. The whole contraption weighs about 28tons and changing from narrow to wide and vice versa is a performance, though you wouldn't need the joining bars for yours .The concept should give you opportunity for a lot of cabin space- particularly on the unpowered half.

Bill

[MarkHez]

I own 2 cruisers, and have been cruising them together for just about a year now single handed. Towing on cross straps with the boats 1ft apart its ok going between the 2 boats even when underway, breasted together it's also not an issue, or pushing one with the other (just on tight ratchet straps stern-bow) its almost one boat, just annoying if the pushed boat is taller than the boat doing the pushing!

[dmr]

As you are a K&A man you must have seen the wonderful Emily-Bronte combination which sounds just like what you are describing, though you might not want the Blacksmiths Forge in the push tug.

 

http://www.briangreaves.com/about-brian

 

..................Dave

[Alan de Enfield]

Vctoria Plum had a similar 'concept' to what you are thinking of, but it was a 13 foot long 'workshop' rather than an additional boat.

 

The connection system worked and his 60 ft NB pushed it without any problems.

You could have (say) a 25 foot 'extra bedroom / living room' made and use your 45 footer as the pusher.

 

By the way - C&RT was unable to decide what it 'was' to classify it so they licence it as a canoe at £45 per annum

 

 

And, tied up alongside whilst the 'mother ship' goes cruising (or thru a short lock)

 

Edited February 10, 2016 by Alan de Enfield

[David Mack]

Punt ended (like BW work boats often are) so that easy to step from one to the other when under way

 

the front (dumb) half would turn round for being breasted up - loosely the idea is that the connecting deck would be short on both boats, and when side by side the longer rear and front decks of the narrow formation would be next to each other.

So if you put a dirty great hinge at one side where the two halves join, to make the two inseparable, you could argue to CRT that it only needs to be licensed as a single boat, sometimes 70 ft x 7 and sometimes 35 ft by 14!

[MarkHez]

Vctoria Plum had a similar 'concept' to what you are thinking of, but it was a 13 foot long 'workshop' rather than an additional boat.

 

 

I'd forgotten about that one, looks like tractor top links as a tensioner.

[Jim Riley]

Vctoria Plum had a similar 'concept' to what you are thinking of, but it was a 13 foot long 'workshop' rather than an additional boat.

 

The connection system worked and his 60 ft NB pushed it without any problems.

You could have (say) a 25 foot 'extra bedroom / living room' made and use your 45 footer as the pusher.

 

By the way - C&RT was unable to decide what it 'was' to classify it so they licence it as a canoe at £45 per annum

 

 

And, tied up alongside whilst the 'mother ship' goes cruising (or thru a short lock)

 

 

Saw it once at Greenberfield l&l, the butty had a hydraulic platform and was a garage for a plum coloured scooter with matching plum shaped and coloured sidecar.

[Alan de Enfield]

Saw it once at Greenberfield l&l, the butty had a hydraulic platform and was a garage for a plum coloured scooter with matching plum shaped and coloured sidecar.

 

That's the one - but - he had to give up on the Scooter & sidecar and it was replaced by an 'Invalidity scooter' as his mobility deteriorated. Spent a couple of weeks on the Trent with him and his friend.

 

nb - the 'garage' is for sale at £4000 if anyone is interested.

 

nnb - yes the tensioners are 'tractor top-links' and do a perfect job.

 

 

The hydraulic floor drops down into the 'bowels' where there is storage for a 45 gallon drum of extra fuel, a workshop of tools etc etc.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Alan de Enfield

[magpie patrick]

So if you put a dirty great hinge at one side where the two halves join, to make the two inseparable, you could argue to CRT that it only needs to be licensed as a single boat, sometimes 70 ft x 7 and sometimes 35 ft by 14!

 

I did think of hinging it but also could see that the restriction of the two being connected this way, when changing the arrangement, could be a pain!

 

In this hypothetical scenario I wouldn't be changing the formation that often, as far as I'm aware all the navigations where short locks are an issue wide beam boats are not, so for example, when heading north I might change over at Wigan, and depending on which was the bestv formation where both wide and long would work, would change the formation again at either Leeds or when I next met a narrow lock

 

I'd do the GU in narrow formation...

 

We have a dredger, built by BW in 1969 on very similar lines to your dream. Two punt shaped hulls about 35ft each. The engine and digger are on one hull, the second acts a stabilising pontoon when working by being connected abreast by strong bars. When travelling the pontoon is fastened ahead by solid link bars of the what is now a pusher tug, this for narrow canals. In use the dredger is very effective (irrelevant to you). Travelling breasted up 14ft wide is pathetically slow, despite the HR2 Lister doing it's best. When in narrow pusher mode speed is more respectable. The whole contraption weighs about 28tons and changing from narrow to wide and vice versa is a performance, though you wouldn't need the joining bars for yours .The concept should give you opportunity for a lot of cabin space- particularly on the unpowered half.

Bill

 

Noted - do you think that's because yours isn't intended to move far and has several tonnes of kit on board, or is it fundamental - do wide beams need more powerful engines? (I can see they probably do, and would be better with the prop central)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Make the decks nearer the same level so stepping across is easy and that's very much what I have in mind

 

When I win the lottery, like I say

[Witchword]

Hades and Persephone...

[John V]

or something like the Leontyne combination

Leontyne book by mudlarker2, on Flickr

[bargemast]

or something like the Leontyne combination

Leontyne book by mudlarker2, on Flickr

Excellent accommodation on their barge Leontine, but no accommodation on their pusher/tug Leontyne, where there's only a wheelhouse and engine-room.

 

Peter.

[John V]

They are split up now (in fact for a good few years) last I knew the lighter was in South dock ??? and the tug was on the Medway,

I crewed on the Charlight when she towed it down there

 

Leontyne by mudlarker2, on Flickr

[billh]

 

 

 

 

 

Noted - do you think that's because yours isn't intended to move far and has several tonnes of kit on board, or is it fundamental - do wide beams need more powerful engines? (I can see they probably do, and would be better with the prop central)

 

 

 

Yes, the hull shape and deep draught,about 3ft, conspire to make it like 2 large bricks breasted up . The big advantage is we can dig our way out of trouble. Your dream boat(s) can have a really shallow draught though.

Some years ago, boating on the Ship Canal, the Company advised that narrow boats breasted up when transiting the canal. The achievable speed for two boats like this, even with two motors was much less than could be got by a single motor or even motor with butty towed behind. Conclusion: aim to travel mostly as a narrowboat if possible.

[bargemast]

They are split up now (in fact for a good few years) last I knew the lighter was in South dock ??? and the tug was on the Medway,

I crewed on the Charlight when she towed it down there.

When I was onboard Leontyne she had a nicely running Gardner 6LW, but I wouldn't be surpriced to learn that they killed that engine through lack of maintenance.

 

Peter.

[John V]

When I was onboard Leontyne she had a nicely running Gardner 6LW, but I wouldn't be surpriced to learn that they killed that engine through lack of maintenance.

 

Peter.

 

I'm sure I would have remembered if she had a 6LW

 

but I seem to remember the engine was out of her and she had t&g throughout as some sort of exhibition display site

(looking at my photo you can see she is floating quite high)

We picked her up in Bow back waters to take her to the Medway so she had been separated from the lighter for some time then, it must have been at least 15 years ago, possibly nearer 20

[bargemast]

I'm sure I would have remembered if she had a 6LW

 

but I seem to remember the engine was out of her and she had t&g throughout as some sort of exhibition display site

(looking at my photo you can see she is floating quite high)

We picked her up in Bow back waters to take her to the Medway so she had been separated from the lighter for some time then, it must have been at least 15 years ago, possibly nearer 20

Hi John, of course a lot of things could (and will) have happened to her over the years.

I was onboard only very briefly in 1988.

 

Peter.