3 timed way water valve

[Biggles]

I need to control hot and cold water supply to my washing machine on my boat. The wash and rince can be hot water but the drying cycle needs cold water for the condenser.

I need to have hot served for about 1.5 hours then switched to cold for the drying cycle. Ideally this would be on a timed relay defaulting to cold. Once actuated (240v) the valve would open to permit hot supply, after about 1.5 hours it would default to cold.

Does anyone have a solution? It would be great if it was self sensing when the W/M was powered up the control would switch to hot only, dropping after 1.5 hours to default cold.

Any suggestions?

Regards

Kevin

[MtB]

Get a normal washing machine like everyone else's?

[Burgiesburnin]

Is this washing machine on your boat or in the space station?

[1st ade]

Get a normal washing machine like everyone else's?

 

I suspect the OP has got a normal washing machine!

 

Our replacement machine (after years of good service from the previous one) has no hot feed. It fills with cold water then heats it. Fine in a house. Not so good on a boat (especially where you have limited electricity but lashings of pre-heated water)

[bottle]

Kevin

 

Why you would want to do this?

 

Think three way motorised valve, as per central heating/hot water control, with separate timer would do it. (I think)

 

It would be plumbed opposite to 'normal' so two in one out.

 

Next question:

 

How do you plan to control hot water temperature?

 

Comment:

 

Rinsing with hot water is uneconomical.

Edited December 22, 2015 by bottle

[Sea Dog]

I don't think you've thought this through enough. If you go for a 4 way valve, you could also recycle your shower water as a first rinse. Obviously, you'd need to get your timing right.

[Chewbacka]

 

I suspect the OP has got a normal washing machine!

 

Our replacement machine (after years of good service from the previous one) has no hot feed. It fills with cold water then heats it. Fine in a house. Not so good on a boat (especially where you have limited electricity but lashings of pre-heated water)

From the original post, it sounds like a washer drier. So warm to hot for the wash and possibly the rinse as well, then cold for the tumble drier part of the cycle, otherwise the boat will get very wet.

 

The trouble with domestic ch valves is that they use 240V power all the time they are not in the rest position, so it would have to be plumbed in so that power off was cold only. You can get a delay timer which you would press at the start of the wash to select hot, then after a preset time it would turn off to cut the power to the valve.

something like this http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p47271?table=no

 

But if you have enough power to run a tumble drier, then why not just cold fill and heat the water, save a lot of trouble.

 

 

Added - I am not at all sure that a ch valve is going to work ok at about 2 bar pressure difference as they are designed for low pressure circulating systems.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Chewbacka

[MoominPapa]

Here's how I did it. Works a treat.

 

MP.

 

 

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=78649&p=1633209

 

 

ETA scroll down a couple of posts for the full design.

Edited December 22, 2015 by MoominPapa

[Sea Dog]

Get a normal washing machine like everyone else's?

And definitely not a condenser model that uses up your fresh water supply in the drying cycle and takes longer to dry stuff too, but it's too late to supply that advice now.

[Top cat]

I haven't tried this so it may not work, but how about manually adding hot water to the machine before you start it, that should cut down the heating load. Might be worth it as experiment if only to see what part of the power used is for water heating.

 

Top Cat

[Biggles]

Get a normal washing machine like everyone else's?

 

It is a normal washer dryer Mike.

[Biggles]

I like the idea of a CH 3 way valve, but I wasn't sure if it would work in reverse but I suppose its a mechamical rotary valve and won't be bothered where the pressures is.

 

We only run the WM when cruising or occasionally on shore power. When cruising we make continuous hot water so it makes sense to use it in the WM to 1 speed up the cycle, and 2 to reduce the amount of power needed. Heating from an inverter is never a good thing IMO. The water is delivered to the WM at 40c care of a TMV. Rincing with hot water keeps the washing warm and seems to seal in the freshness.

 

Once the drying starts the washing is already hot so again less heating is required at the start. Once the drying starts cold water is going to make the condenser work better. Its that simple.

 

Water is not a problem as we make our own if a tap is not available We had no real choice about a washer dryer, we didn't have the space for a WM and separate TD. This was a replacement for a WM only which we've had for 4 years. One of Mrs Biggles dislikes on the boat was the lack of TD and dishwasher, so the WM came out and a DW put in it place in the kitchen and a WM has been put in the bedroom. Guess who lost their wardrobe space?

I also like the timer Chewbacker. And Moominpapa seems you have the same ideas. I am confident i have the solution to the problem now.

[Graham.m]

May I suggest that some of your clothes may not like going from hot water into the final spin into drying. I appreciate your logic but there is a possibility of the clothes reaching boiling temperature while drying rather than the warm air absorbing the water vapours. If they go over their wash temperatures there is a possibility of shrinkage.

 

Just my experience and thoughts

Edited December 22, 2015 by Graham.m

[Biggles]

May I suggest that some of your clothes may not like going from hot water into the final spin into drying. I appreciate your logic but there is a possibility of the clothes reaching boiling temperature while drying rather than the warm air absorbing the water vapours. If they go over their wash temperatures there is a possibility of shrinkage.

 

Just my experience and thoughts

No problem at all. We (she) did the washing this way for the last 4 years on the previous WM.

Similar thread going on here

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=78649&hl=

[Biggles]

And definitely not a condenser model that uses up your fresh water supply in the drying cycle and takes longer to dry stuff too, but it's too late to supply that advice now.

Actually, TD's are evolving. We have a new one at home that has a small refrigeration unit in it to keep the condenser cool. It uses very little heat in the drying cycle, its barely warm at any point during the drying. Its a TD that is A++ energy rated. According to the blurb its £23.00 per year for an average family of 4. I was told by the sales people that this WMTD worked the same way. I'm in the process of taking that up with them.

[Sea Dog]

Actually, TD's are evolving. We have a new one at home that has a small refrigeration unit in it to keep the condenser cool. It uses very little heat in the drying cycle, its barely warm at any point during the drying.

So now it's not just a tumble dryer using electricity, or just a condenser dryer using electricity and fresh water, it also brings a second fridge unit to the boat! If the clothes barely get warm at any point in the drying, it's probably gonna be on for longer too. Bonus! Your engine or generator will be on so long your neighbours will forget peace ever existed.

 

Sorry Biggles, it's probably a super bit of kit in a house. Didn't mean to rant at your expense.

[Biggles]

So now it's not just a tumble dryer using electricity, or just a condenser dryer using electricity and fresh water, it also brings a second fridge unit to the boat! If the clothes barely get warm at any point in the drying, it's probably gonna be on for longer too. Bonus! Your engine or generator will be on so long your neighbours will forget peace ever existed.

 

Sorry Biggles, it's probably a super bit of kit in a house. Didn't mean to rant at your expense.

Totally valid point. But what you must understand is no laundry (well maybe 5%) is done unless we are on the move. So it would be of no nuisance to anyone. If we (she) did it stationary it would be during reasonable hours. On shore power the noise to the outside world would be the same as any laundry machines in a house.

 

Our boat moves almost daily for at least 2-5 hours a day. we don't make laundry loads every day. If our laundry ever cause any annoyance to anyone either while cruising or on shore power I think I would give up boating.

 

 

[Sea Dog]

Totally valid point....... If our laundry ever cause any annoyance to anyone either while cruising or on shore power I think I would give up boating.

 

Ooh! Don't do that just cos I had a pop about refrigerated tumble dryers! I'll come and do your washing as penance!

[Loafer]

Is this washing machine on your boat or in the space station?

 

 

LMCO!!

 

ETA: Greenie. Choke.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Loafer

[Biggles]

Ooh! Don't do that just cos I had a pop about refrigerated tumble dryers! I'll come and do your washing as penance!

Actually on further thought, i'd give up clean clothes before I gave up boating.

[FadeToScarlet]

Actually on further thought, i'd give up clean clothes before I gave up boating.

I thought you already had!

 

(Merry Christmas to you and B.)

[blackrose]

I just bought a washing machine with a maximum power draw within the capacity of my generator (and shore power). That solution seemed much simpler than all the faffing around I read about on this forum.