Perkins 4203?

[DaisyMay]

Hi everyone,

 

I have very nearly bought a narrowboat that has a Perkins 4203 engine but will require a gearbox and transmission. Can anyone offer any advice on this? I only have experience of motorbike engines so am a bit out of my depth, so to speak!

 

Thank you for any advice!

[Athy]

^{Buy a different boat which will actually go without further considerable expenditure on parts and skilled labour. Sorry if that sounds harsh.}

 

^{As the last three figures of a Perkins engine number are usually the engine capacity in cubic inches (the first figure is the number of cylinders), 203 sounds pretty big for a narrowboat - at a guess, not much less than 4 litres.}

 

^{is there a special feature of this particular boat which attracts you to it? Perhaps it's being sold by a friend of yours. or the price looks a bargain? If not, other (complete) boats are available!}

 

^{Off topic, but does your avatar show you in a narrow gauge railway carriage?}

[DaisyMay]

^{Buy a different boat which will actually go without further considerable expenditure on parts and skilled labour. Sorry if that sounds harsh.}

 

^{As the last three figures of a Perkins engine number are usually the engine capacity in cubic inches (the first figure is the number of cylinders), 203 sounds pretty big for a narrowboat - at a guess, not much less than 4 litres.}

 

^{is there a special feature of this particular boat which attracts you to it? Perhaps it's being sold by a friend of yours. or the price looks a bargain? If not, other (complete) boats are available!}

 

^{Off topic, but does your avatar show you in a narrow gauge railway carriage?}

 

Hi Athy,

 

It is very much a doer upper and being sold as seen with no guarantee that the engine works. The Perkins engine looks like a popular choice for landy drivers but there are a few boats out there with one.

 

Yes, I was on the steam railway in Portmadog last year :-)

[Athy]

I thought the background looked familiar - I used to work on the Festiniog railway.

 

Yes, quite a few Perkinses on the canals, but more often 4107s or 4108s, so they're much smaller.

 

I guess "doer-upper" equals "appealingly priced"? It depends how much work needs to be done and how much of that you feel confident to do yourself, whether the boat is a bargain or not. At very least, get a pro opinion on the state of the engine before handing over the bundle of used fivers.

[DaisyMay]

Yes, it's very appealingly priced :-) Needs lots of work some of which I am going to pay someone else to do, as I am no welder! The rest is for me to muddle my way through and bloody well enjoy the challenge ;-)

[Tiggs]

Going to need a bell housing to attach the gearbox to - take a look here to give you an idea of the cost

 

http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/Engine-Spares-for-sale/533-marine-bellhousing-perkins-4203-4236-and-6354/3950#B36ywrjEuUmB727T.97

 

Athy is right about it being a bit big for a narrowboat - I'd try to trade it for a ready marinised smaller one, but it should work OK. May not give very good fuel consumption.

 

You're probably going to need to change some other stuff to to make it meet Boat Safety Standards e.g. correct spec fuel pipes. What are you doing about cooling? What alternator/s are you wanting to drive? What gear ratio and prop size? What are you mounting it on?

[Athy]

^{Fair comment!}

 

^{I'm assuming that it would be your first boat so I'll repeat the mantra: Get a hull survey before you buy. Most other things can be changed: décor, , stove, electrics, even engine, but you can't change the shell.}

[Alan de Enfield]

^{Fair comment!}

 

^{I'm assuming that it would be your first boat so I'll repeat the mantra: Get a hull survey before you buy. Most other things can be changed: décor, , stove, electrics, even engine, but you can't change the shell.}

 

Sounds like it needs welding anyway.

 

Can anyone offer any advice on .................this?

 

TBH - for me (at any price) it would be a 'walk away' option. from the sound of it its not even worth scrap price as it would cost more to transport and cut up than you'd get by weighing it in.

[DaisyMay]

Yep, my first boat. I have a hull survey which lists the recommendations including welding. It is effectively a shell I am buying as there is no interior. Tiggs, they are very good questions for me to consider, that is exactly why I joined this forum as I am not fully aware of what I need to ask :-) Any advice always gratefully received!

[OldGoat]

Sounds to me (and I'm sympathic) like a case of "Stand well back of the platform" -

Weird engine with bits missing (little available knowledge, parts to convert may be difficult to source etc, etc)

AND

needs major hull repairs ' a bit of welding' = In Need of Replating.

 

I suspect - A Basket Case. Even if it's free could cost you more that a boats that's already functioning..

 

You'll probably take no notice.....

[David Mack]

Sounds like you've got quite a lot of work on already with this boat. The engine is not a common one on narrow boats and has no gearbox. Is the engine itself a marine unit and actually installed, or is it an ex-vehicle or ex-plant engine just sitting in the hull? Complete marine engine and gearbox packages can be bought quite cheaply on Ebay.

[Rickent]

Nowhere on this thread can I see any mention of price, but it would need to be very cheap considering the amount of work needed.

[Athy]

Nowhere on this thread can I see any mention of price, but it would need to be very cheap considering the amount of work needed.

Daisy describes it as "very appealingly priced" which I think is all we need to know.

[Alan de Enfield]

Daisy describes it as "very appealingly priced" which I think is all we need to know.

 

Could that be read as "they are paying me to take it away" ?

[16csvt]

Speaking as one who (foolishly?) put one in an old land-rover, I can say the 4.203 is fiendishly heavy, and is all torque and no revs.The engine crane (not a cheap one) was straining and bending and was argueably 'in excess of rated capacity'. There was so much torque that the use of first gear or reverse, led, on more than one occasion, to what may be described as silver plated plastercine fragments in the gear box. IIRC it hit the govenor at 2750 rpm (42mph on standard diffs).

The engine number is usually stamped in the block above the flywheel housing, (but not high enough to be on the head).

Perkins permitted others to manufacture under licence. UK engines have a 'U' in the serial no. Spannish engines have an 'E' in the s/n.

Beware non UK engines. Mine was Spannish, and finding a water pump to fit was a nightmare.

Apart from the above, not a bad design if used in the right application. Dry liners, beware option of chromed liner / iron rings against iron liner / chromed rings. Get it wrong, you'll be looking at replacing all the vertical moving bits. Lucas / CAV dpa pump. Indirect injection with external removable chambers. Timing was all gears, no belt or chain. OHV with pushrods and rockers. Option for aux hydraulic pump driven off timing gears. No glow plugs, used a cav thermostart thing which let a waft of flame down the inlet to cold start. If fitted with the CAV 'coaxial??' (CA45??) starter then the starter can be expensive to sort out. In the few years I ran mine, it never failed to start even on the coldest days even though the thermostart was not connected up!.

The opinion of others may well differ, but thats my three penneth.

regards

Kevin

[Geoff Taylor]

Hi, the 4.203 was fitted in the Massey Ferguson 65X and 165 tractor, it was rated at 58 BHP and a marine version (4,203M) was rated at 72 BHP, maybe a turbo version.

Albeit a bit powerful for a narrowboat it is an excellent engine, good on fuel and the cost of rebuilding is well under half the cost of its Japanese equivalents.

(I may be a bit biased as I run a 4.108 in our nb!!).

[Ron m]

Hi Daisy I have a couple of 4108 perkins with gearboxes & I would be interested in px ing the 4203.

Ron

[Rickent]

Hi Daisy I have a couple of 4108 perkins with gearboxes & I would be interested in px ing the 4203.

Ron

 

 

 

 

is the 4108 the 35hp version ?

[Ron m]

It is the marine version

[alan_fincher]

 

^{As the last three figures of a Perkins engine number are usually the engine capacity in cubic inches (the first figure is the number of cylinders), 203 sounds pretty big for a narrowboat - at a guess, not much less than 4 litres.}

 

Not quite - closer to 3 litres - actually about 3.33 litres.

 

Used in certain Massey Ferguson tractors.

 

The 3-cylinder P3 / D3 type engines are plenty big enough, and I'm guessing this is a similar engine with an extra cylinder. Too big really, IMO.

[gazza]

 

Not quite - closer to 3 litres - actually about 3.33 litres.

 

Used in certain Massey Ferguson tractors.

 

The 3-cylinder P3 / D3 type engines are plenty big enough, and I'm guessing this is a similar engine with an extra cylinder. Too big really, IMO.

The P3/D3 is 152 cubic inches - 2.49 litres, your guess of another pot of the same size is a good one! Each pot being 832 odd cc

[alan_fincher]

The P3/D3 is 152 cubic inches - 2.49 litres, your guess of another pot of the same size is a good one! Each pot being 832 odd cc

 

Although I've no great knowledge of Perkins engines, I do know that the P3 had both a P3.144 and a P3.152 variant, (from memory the 152 cu ins engine being later than the 144 cu ins engine).

 

I know this because I had a P3.144, and it was much harder to buy bits for that than the P3.152, (all this being 40 yeras ago, so I'm not sure how you would fare now!).

[gazza]

 

Although I've no great knowledge of Perkins engines, I do know that the P3 had both a P3.144 and a P3.152 variant, (from memory the 152 cu ins engine being later than the 144 cu ins engine).

 

I know this because I had a P3.144, and it was much harder to buy bits for that than the P3.152, (all this being 40 yeras ago, so I'm not sure how you would fare now!).

I've had no dealings with the 144, only the P/D3.152 of which parts are freely available, very very robust bit of kit.

 

We have a turbocharged 6 pot 6l electropak Genny at work, brute of a thing! That would be overkill in a narrow boat

[DaisyMay]

Hello again :-) I have read all your comments with great interest; thank you all for posting! I am going to see the boat again tomorrow armed with my camera and notepad so I shall take the number as suggested, Kevin, and that should give me access to lots more information. The boat is only 45' so it does sound far too big; Ron, let's talk PX when I have seen it and have some pictures :-) Old Goat, you sound wise but I am foolish so I only have myself to blame ;-)

[OldGoat]

Hello again :-) I have read all your comments with great interest; thank you all for posting! I am going to see the boat again tomorrow armed with my camera and notepad so I shall take the number as suggested, Kevin, and that should give me access to lots more information. The boat is only 45' so it does sound far too big; Ron, let's talk PX when I have seen it and have some pictures :-) Old Goat, you sound wise but I am foolish so I only have myself to blame ;-)

 

Ah well, 'one' has to try...

OTOH if you've had the offer of a swap out for a more usual NB engine, that puts a different complexion on the issue.

Now you 'only' have to deal with the welding challenge.