Are Boaters really Green?

[BlueStringPudding]

Our local Tesco, amongst much pomp and publicity, has put up a windmill in their carpark. Don't think anyone has seen it actually turning yet......

 

The Sainsburys in Greenwich has wind turbines (in fact the whole building was built to be as green as poss - literally as it's turfed!) They only seemed to work occasionally though.

[fuzzyduck]

Wouldn't it be lovely to see her at sea again? But unfortunately, it's only the steel masts passing through the keel and concreted into the dock that stops her collapsing under her own weight. Can you think of a more suitable place for her than Portsmouth? especially as she is still a commisioned ship of the Royal Navy.

 

yes, the bottom of the solent. to be honest, just think, the money wasted on the Olympics could have pulled off a full scale ground up restoration. But I digress.

 

One of the problems with this band wagon screaming climate change, is that people are so uncritical in their thinking that they'll look upon a windmill on top of Smegsburys, and thank, "wow that's green" and then go inside and buy Mange Tout that's been flown 1/2 way round the world.

Edited March 28, 2007 by fuzzyduck

[Guest]

"Are Boaters really Green?"

 

No.

[anthony]

The interior is already sheathed with sheathing felt, coal tar and shearing so it needs to breathe through the outside. I don't know who told you but they were wrong. wrapping a wooden boat in plastic kills it. I can show you a number of boat corpses that went that way.

Does it not depend on what kind of wood being used carlt?

[Carrie]

I'd love a wooden boat.

 

Tescos (Grrrrrr). I was moored near one of their many distribution centres, this one near Hinkley, with the huge 'You shop, we drop' lorries' trundling ALL NIGHT, with floodlights on all night long too. Sticking a bleedin windmill on a roof is a laugh.

[Guest]

The supermarket culture has put more traffic on the road than could ever be imagined. My good mate has trucks, and they are kept frantically busy hauling for various supermarkets, very often hauling stuff half way down the country and back again. Many things are urban legends, but the "food miles" issue doesn't appear to be one.

[NB Alnwick]

As I have said before all this 'green', global warming, climate change nonsense is the new religion - a mania induced by the powerful to keep everyone else in subservient fear.

 

Conform and worship the windmills while those at the top fly more men and weapons to Iraq and Afghanistan . . .

[Rick-n-Jo]

The oldest surviving narrowboat is wooden: Maria, despite iron being an accepted material by 1854.

 

 

Carl, while I understand (and share!) your love of wooden boats, I'm afraid I can't let that one pass.

 

Although we don't as yet have a documented build date, our own boat "Bride", a Thomas Bantock "Mk 1" composite riveted iron oak and elm narrowboat, is very likely to have been built in the same decade as "Maria". Of course, unlike "Maria", which was completely rebuilt in 1977, about 70% of "Bride"s hull is the original iron plate.

 

But she's not the oldest.

 

The iceboats "Antartic" and "Laplander" probably date from the 1830's, based on their small (3'x2') Low Moor Iron plates and crude construction. 90% of "Laplander"s hull is still original.

 

However, at the end of 2005, canal historian Laurence Hogg, while helping her new owner research the history of nb "Equus" discovered that foundry marks found on one of her iron plates were from a foundry in Tipton which operated from about 1800-1820. The boat may be the SURCCCo. flyboat "Lord Nelson", which later became a maintenance boat on the Llangollen Canal.

 

The oldest narrowboat?

 

Cheers

 

Rick

[Supermalc]

Are boaters 'green' ?????

 

Well from reading the forum some are i.e. inexperienced, douped, fleeced when buying a new boat.

 

Others are 'green' with envy; you can tell from the posts.

 

Some boats are 'green', some brown, red, etc. etc.

 

As to people thining they are politically 'green' well I'm not so sure.

[KenK]

I don't know where you got this "fact" from but it is not true. Both steel and aluminium cans can be effectively recycled on both an environmental and economic basis.

 

I work in the can manufacturing industry. Aluminium can be recycled, steel cans are a composite, a very thin layer of tin(microns) coats the steel, in addition the cans are internally coated. It is not economically viable to recover the tin so the cans may indeed be melted down with other scrap steel to produce a low grade product used for concrete rebar etc. This process is neither economic, we have to pay to have the scrap steel cans removed, nor environmentally friendly. I believe it takes place in countries where the environmental controls are lax.

 

No, Carl is correct, the common consensus amongst scientists on the time scale for carbon neutrality is within 100 years. It is not practical to wait millenia for the carbon cycle to resolve itself.

 

I was not aware that scientists ever had a common consensus about anything but I like your theory.

As coal was laid down by an entirely natural process millions of years ago, using your 100 year rule we have tens of thousands of years when we can burn it and be carbon neutral. Looks good to me or am I missing something.

 

Oh I'm feeling all warm and fuzzy

[blackrose]

Tescos (Grrrrrr).

 

I was castigated by a dreadlocked neighbour for buying my freeview box from Tescos (like she's never been there... right ).

 

In fact I'd like to meet anyone in this country who's never bought anything from Tescos.

 

I agree that they are too big & powerful but they wouldn't exist if we didn't go there.

[carlt]

Does it not depend on what kind of wood being used carlt?

You're absolutely right Anthony. Build a boat out of greenheart, sheath it inside and out with grp, leave it for a hundred years and it won't have rotted (much).

 

Then again...build a boat out of greenheart, don't cover it up in plastic, leave it for a hundred years and it won't have rotted (at all).

 

The only wood which may benefit from sheathing is the totally rotten kind, as a foolish, ill advised attempt to save the boat. But then again you might as well replace the planks with wood, rather than kill the boat with plastic.

 

If you want a fibre glass boat, there are some lovely fibre glass cruisers out there.

[StoneHenge]

I was castigated by a dreadlocked neighbour for buying my freeview box from Tescos (like she's never been there... right ).

 

In fact I'd like to meet anyone in this country who's never bought anything from Tescos.

 

I agree that they are too big & powerful but they wouldn't exist if we didn't go there.

 

Your right, I brought one thing once from there, and I'd probably never shop there again. In fact, our town outed the great Tesco giants when they wanted to build a store in our town. Have they managed it yet? Nope, but they always win in the end.

 

Given there giant share of the supermarket world, they should be leading by example. They could probably run most stores with solar panels all over the roof and introduce greener products and running of the stores in terms of better lighting, heating and maintenance.

 

Will they though? Doubt it.

 

It would be hard to be 100% green, but I do think it's nice to have a go. If nothing else, despite paying for a solar panel which was not exactly cheap, I have the satisfaction of not giving some of my money to the big fat cats who couldn't give a hoot if they trod on me. So there is a double advantage of investing in a bit of greener energy even if it won't make a huge difference in the long run.

[carlt]

Carl, while I understand (and share!) your love of wooden boats, I'm afraid I can't let that one pass.

 

Although we don't as yet have a documented build date, our own boat "Bride", a Thomas Bantock "Mk 1" composite riveted iron oak and elm narrowboat, is very likely to have been built in the same decade as "Maria". Of course, unlike "Maria", which was completely rebuilt in 1977, about 70% of "Bride"s hull is the original iron plate.

 

But she's not the oldest.

 

The iceboats "Antartic" and "Laplander" probably date from the 1830's, based on their small (3'x2') Low Moor Iron plates and crude construction. 90% of "Laplander"s hull is still original.

 

However, at the end of 2005, canal historian Laurence Hogg, while helping her new owner research the history of nb "Equus" discovered that foundry marks found on one of her iron plates were from a foundry in Tipton which operated from about 1800-1820. The boat may be the SURCCCo. flyboat "Lord Nelson", which later became a maintenance boat on the Llangollen Canal.

 

The oldest narrowboat?

 

Cheers

 

Rick

To be honest Rick, I didn't think she was (I've posted the question here and other forums in the past and never stirred the other anoraks into action).

I'm always happy to be corrected.

[KenK]

Your right, I brought one thing once from there, and I'd probably never shop there again. In fact, our town outed the great Tesco giants when they wanted to build a store in our town. Have they managed it yet? Nope, but they always win in the end.

 

Given there giant share of the supermarket world, they should be leading by example. They could probably run most stores with solar panels all over the roof and introduce greener products and running of the stores in terms of better lighting, heating and maintenance.

 

Will they though? Doubt it.

 

It would be hard to be 100% green, but I do think it's nice to have a go. If nothing else, despite paying for a solar panel which was not exactly cheap, I have the satisfaction of not giving some of my money to the big fat cats who couldn't give a hoot if they trod on me. So there is a double advantage of investing in a bit of greener energy even if it won't make a huge difference in the long run.

 

Why are solar panels green? They are made using a semiconductor process which uses lots of power, dangerous chemicals, gasses, acids and alkalines. As it is a easy process, in semiconductor terms, the manufacturing is often carried out in countries that have cheap labour and which have few if any environmental controls for the disposal of the byeproducts. Hopefully over the life of the panel you might offset the pollution created in the manufacturing process but I would not bet on it.

 

Oh and bye the way all the supermarket groups spend lots of money trying to be greener. Not because they care about the planet, although they might, but because if they can reduce the packaging and power consumption they can increse their profits.

 

Ken

[Sir Nibble]

I only posted on this thread when fuzzy mentioned Victory, (I see her masts on the skyline most days), but that aside, "Are boaters green"?

Are boaters aston villa fans? do boaters vote Conservative? do boaters like cheese? I suppose it is encouraging that the subject is discussed at all, but the answer to the question "Are boaters green" is emphatically YES! except the ones that aren't.

Maybe the question should be "Is boating green"? Burning diesel for pleasure, no, very un-green, along with Xmas lights, motor mowers and farting.

[carlt]

Burning diesel for pleasure, no, very un-green, along with Xmas lights, motor mowers and farting.

Aren't your farts green? Maybe the sprouts with everything diet isn't as healthy as they told me.

[anthony]

I hear your point carlt and I have a fiberglass boat already so I wont be wanting/needing another one.

I asked the question about sheathing as so many people over at http://boatdesign.net/forums/ recommend it.

Lets face it you cant get the lines you can get with wood so easily with steel or plastic.

Plus so many designers like Selway Fisher recommend sheathing a newly built plywood over frames boat to give it extra protection. So I wonder what their thinking is.

 

IM talking about this as I had one of my designs drawn up for a small wooden canal boat and would actually like to start building it some time soon. So preservation is of interest to me especially hearing from a wooden boat owner.

 

Thanks.

[carlt]

I hear your point carlt and I have a fiberglass boat already so I wont be wanting/needing another one.

I asked the question about sheathing as so many people over at http://boatdesign.net/forums/ recommend it.

Lets face it you cant get the lines you can get with wood so easily with steel or plastic.

Plus so many designers like Selway Fisher recommend sheathing a newly built plywood over frames boat to give it extra protection. So I wonder what their thinking is.

 

IM talking about this as I had one of my designs drawn up for a small wooden canal boat and would actually like to start building it some time soon. So preservation is of interest to me especially hearing from a wooden boat owner.

 

Thanks.

Threads like these?

 

don't sheath a wooden boat

 

don't sheath a wooden boat

 

don't sheath a wooden boat

 

etc etc. They all say the same as me (apart from the original poster).

 

But one thing I can say back on topic. Taking a wooden boat and covering it's hull in epoxy and fibreglass is NOT green!!

Edited March 29, 2007 by carlt

[Bobphilips]

What about the green aspect of goods transported by inland waterway rather than roads?

 

Towpath Talk recently ran an article about transporting grain by waterway rather than road. They quoted these figures:

 

• 100,000 tonnes of grain per year transported by

lorry (25 tonnes per trip) = 8000 return trips

• Length of road trip = 37.5 miles, ie 75 miles

return.

Therefore diesel fuel used (at 8 miles to the gallon)

= 37,500 gallons.

Compare this with the equivalent waterborne

statistics.

• 100,000 tonnes of grain per year transported by

boat (1000 tonnes per voyage) = 100 return trips.

• Length of water freight round trip = 74 miles

return. Round trip diesel oil consumption Anna D

180 gallons (maximum)

Therefore diesel fuel used (100 round trips) = 18,000

gallons.

 

I know it has the potential to clog up the waterways a little but with careful planning ie transportation at night etc then surely the distruption could be minimised.

 

What do other people think?

[carlt]

What about the green aspect of goods transported by inland waterway rather than roads?

 

Towpath Talk recently ran an article about transporting grain by waterway rather than road. They quoted these figures:

I know it has the potential to clog up the waterways a little but with careful planning ie transportation at night etc then surely the distruption could be minimised.

 

What do other people think?

If there was a return to mass transportation of goods on the waterways then it wouldn't clog up the waterways a little! And read the 'what time do I turn the genny off' thread for peoples attitude to night time disruption.

 

Small scale freight haulage that would only 'clog up the waterways a little' is a drop in the ocean regarding global climate change.

[Theo]

What about the green aspect of goods transported by inland waterway rather than roads?

 

Towpath Talk recently ran an article about transporting grain by waterway rather than road. They quoted these figures:

I know it has the potential to clog up the waterways a little but with careful planning ie transportation at night etc then surely the distruption could be minimised.

 

What do other people think?

 

Issues:

 

1. The size of boat that can be accommodated on the canal system.

2. The proximity of wharves to the places where the goods are to be used. Is transhipment necessary?

3. The time for the journey. It is often unimportant but not with perishables.

4. The running of large craft at night. Safety and the effect that it might have on the amenity value of the canals.

 

Nick

[Annie B]

Hi guys I've been reading your thread about your lifestyles and being sustainable.. I'm quite new to the forum, I live in a house four days a week and the rest of the time with my partner on his boat Annie Too in Oxford and try to live as low impact lifestyle as I can.. I am very interested in the topic of how green the boating lifestyle is as I'm studying Renewable Energy (technology and sustainability) at Reading Uni.

 

This summer my MSc thesis is going to be on finding out what boaters use to power their boats / appliances and how they heat their space and water with a view to producing a guide to help refine and get the most out of your systems. I believe it'll come down to batteries and their effective use (or not!) though. I will be creating a questionnaire / survey as I'll need to find out where the bugs and whistles are with your systems and find out what appliances you use that may help (like the lovely Eco fan we have on our burner!) Keep the topic alive, I'll find out how much CO2 a bag of coal emits, i have the figures buried in one of my files somewhere.. all the best to you all and I'll be keeping an eye on the topic. If any of you are up for a chat or a visit over the summer to talk with me in more detail about your issues all will help - oh and if there was a guide ( to be produced after the body of research), what kind of guide would you like? A haynes manual type? a booklet, a do's and don't.. lists of services etc.. all this info would be of great help to me in shaping what to produce, ultimatley its for you guys!

 

All the best, Annie B

 

N.B if any of you know of any DIY guides, help manuals etc could you let me know, there is so little on the topic for Canal boaters and I have access to vast databases, I keep drawing a blank, can't believe there is so little.. thanks again. tararabit..

[Bobphilips]

If there was a return to mass transportation of goods on the waterways then it wouldn't clog up the waterways a little! And read the 'what time do I turn the genny off' thread for peoples attitude to night time disruption.

 

True ... did just read that thread, typically after writing the post above.

 

Small scale freight haulage that would only 'clog up the waterways a little' is a drop in the ocean regarding global climate change.

 

Might seem just a drop in the ocean but many drops make a puddle and so on... Not an excuse to say my little action/inaction does not have on impact on a greater scale. Otherwise we might as well all throw litter on the street as someone is employed to come and pick it up and it is only a little piece of litter.

[Rick-n-Jo]

What about the green aspect of goods transported by inland waterway rather than roads?

 

Towpath Talk recently ran an article about transporting grain by waterway rather than road. They quoted these figures:

I know it has the potential to clog up the waterways a little but with careful planning ie transportation at night etc then surely the distruption could be minimised.

 

What do other people think?

 

• 100,000 tonnes of grain per year transported by

boat (1000 tonnes per voyage) = 100 return trips.

 

Not on narrowboats then!

 

The most energy efficient method ever devised for moving goods is pulling a boat with a horse. Can't see it coming back though. Mind you, with our governments current guilt trip attitude to energy consumption, you never know...