LPG Suitcase Generator set up

[Theo]

We have come to the conclusion that the way to go for the coming winter is to get the above and a battery charger.

 

I believe that a 750W unit will be sufficient and the question that I have is the gas supply setup. The ideal wouild be to T off the low pressure side of the normal domestic bottles and run a 3m length of flexible pipe to the generator which would be on the bank when in use. Is this possible?

 

The advantage of this would be the lack of lugging gas bottles around and the lack of need for an extra bottle just for the gennie. Trouble is, I have the impression that conversion kits for generators always have bottle pressure gas going in. Does anyone know any different? Could the system that I have in mind be set up safely?

 

Any thoughts on the brand of gennie that I should get?

 

TIA

 

N

 

[Guest]

We have come to the conclusion that the way to go for the coming winter is to get the above and a battery charger.

 

I believe that a 750W unit will be sufficient and the question that I have is the gas supply setup. The ideal wouild be to T off the low pressure side of the normal domestic bottles and run a 3m length of flexible pipe to the generator which would be on the bank when in use. Is this possible?

 

The advantage of this would be the lack of lugging gas bottles around and the lack of need for an extra bottle just for the gennie. Trouble is, I have the impression that conversion kits for generators always have bottle pressure gas going in. Does anyone know any different? Could the system that I have in mind be set up safely?

 

Any thoughts on the brand of gennie that I should get?

 

TIA

 

N

 

I have looked at a similar idea, but had considered a separate bottle, so can't comment about teeing in, siting genny etc. What I can say is the kits I looked at (Edge Technology of Crewe) appear to have a normal regulator like we use on the boat, followed by a larger low pressure regulator which feeds the gas to the engine. So definitely not bottle pressure to genny (providing I have understood correctly!)

[Theo]

Thanks, catweasel.

 

Is the conversion a DiY job?

 

N

[Alan de Enfield]

One question may be - "what happens to the 3mt length of rubber hose when the genny is not in use ?"

Next :

Will it remain connected at both ends and the genny just lifted aboard ?

Will you look at using a bayonet quick release fitting (as per campervans and commercial gas cookers) ? Would it be BSS acceptable ?

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UNIVERSAL-Oven-Cooker-Gas-Hose-Angled-Bayonet-Pipe-Connector-6ft-1-2-PTFE-Kit-/381367067130

 

 

Where will you T it in - joints in the engine hole are 'frowned upon' ?

[jenlyn]

I have looked at a similar idea, but had considered a separate bottle, so can't comment about teeing in, siting genny etc. What I can say is the kits I looked at (Edge Technology of Crewe) appear to have a normal regulator like we use on the boat, followed by a larger low pressure regulator which feeds the gas to the engine. So definitely not bottle pressure to genny (providing I have understood correctly!)

Correct. I ran a gas Honda with that kit, only on a separate bottle. Having the low pressure regulator after the tee would work.

I found that the genny was not as efficient on gas. Petrol did in fact work out cheaper, but obviously a pain to get, and store.

[Guest]

Thanks, catweasel.

 

Is the conversion a DiY job?

 

N

I believe it is, you can just buy the kit. I am no expert, but from what i understand you can make the genny into a "propane only" unit, or alternatively a dual fuel unit so you can still use petrol. It depends how you mount the jet (called a "spud" it seems.) I am currently considering the dual fuel kit for my Yamaha genny. Some say that the valves don't last as long on propane, but that could be urban legend.

Correct. I ran a gas Honda with that kit, only on a separate bottle. Having the low pressure regulator after the tee would work.

I found that the genny was not as efficient on gas. Petrol did in fact work out cheaper, but obviously a pain to get, and store.

Interesting that petrol is cheaper for genny, but then again it has dropped in price lately,and it might be my imagination, but gas seems to get dearer. I like the idea of gas for availability and storage, as you state.

[jenlyn]

We have come to the conclusion that the way to go for the coming winter is to get the above and a battery charger.

 

I believe that a 750W unit will be sufficient and the question that I have is the gas supply setup. The ideal wouild be to T off the low pressure side of the normal domestic bottles and run a 3m length of flexible pipe to the generator which would be on the bank when in use. Is this possible?

 

The advantage of this would be the lack of lugging gas bottles around and the lack of need for an extra bottle just for the gennie. Trouble is, I have the impression that conversion kits for generators always have bottle pressure gas going in. Does anyone know any different? Could the system that I have in mind be set up safely?

 

Any thoughts on the brand of gennie that I should get?

 

TIA

 

N

 

You will need at least a 1kw genny if you run a charger anything over 25 amps.

[by'eck]

We have come to the conclusion that the way to go for the coming winter is to get the above and a battery charger.

 

I believe that a 750W unit will be sufficient and the question that I have is the gas supply setup. The ideal wouild be to T off the low pressure side of the normal domestic bottles and run a 3m length of flexible pipe to the generator which would be on the bank when in use. Is this possible?

 

The advantage of this would be the lack of lugging gas bottles around and the lack of need for an extra bottle just for the gennie. Trouble is, I have the impression that conversion kits for generators always have bottle pressure gas going in. Does anyone know any different? Could the system that I have in mind be set up safely?

 

Any thoughts on the brand of gennie that I should get?

 

TIA

 

N

 

 

My LPG powered invertor generator came with hose terminating with its own regulator having hand screw connection direct to gas bottle. An option would have been hose with bayonet fitting to LP side of existing boat gas installation, hence no regulator. Hopefully this answers your query.

[Theo]

One question may be - "what happens to the 3mt length of rubber hose when the genny is not in use ?"

Next :

Will it remain connected at both ends and the genny just lifted aboard ?

Will you look at using a bayonet quick release fitting (as per campervans and commercial gas cookers) ? Would it be BSS acceptable ?

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UNIVERSAL-Oven-Cooker-Gas-Hose-Angled-Bayonet-Pipe-Connector-6ft-1-2-PTFE-Kit-/381367067130

 

 

Where will you T it in - joints in the engine hole are 'frowned upon' ?

 

I would disconnect the pipe from the supply and stow it with the gennie.

 

Bayonet would be really good if it will pass the BSS.

 

The T would be in the gas locker on the low pressure side of the regulator. This would fit in well with my current arrangements.

 

N

Correct. I ran a gas Honda with that kit, only on a separate bottle. Having the low pressure regulator after the tee would work.

I found that the genny was not as efficient on gas. Petrol did in fact work out cheaper, but obviously a pain to get, and store.

 

That's interesting. The advertising says that LPG is more efficient. (Never trust an ad man!)

 

N

[jenlyn]

I believe it is, you can just buy the kit. I am no expert, but from what i understand you can make the genny into a "propane only" unit, or alternatively a dual fuel unit so you can still use petrol. It depends how you mount the jet (called a "spud" it seems.) I am currently considering the dual fuel kit for my Yamaha genny. Some say that the valves don't last as long on propane, but that could be urban legend.

Interesting that petrol is cheaper for genny, but then again it has dropped in price lately,and it might be my imagination, but gas seems to get dearer. I like the idea of gas for availability and storage, as you state.

I was convincing myself it was cheaper to run on gas, to justify the 150 quid I had spent on the conversion kit.

Having recorded all the facts for 6 months, I had to accept petrol was cheaper, even at £1.30 a litre. The only real advantage to be honest, was peace of mind safety wise, and the availability of gas on the cut.

Edited September 20, 2015 by jenlyn

[Guest]

You will need at least a 1kw genny if you run a charger anything over 25 amps.

Missed that bit in original post and agree. My Yammy is less than 1kW and can struggle with the charger (30 amp from memory.)

[Theo]

Thanks for the replies.

 

My BSS is happening on Wednesday. I will ask Chris Williams for his opinion.

 

N

[Guest]

I was convincing myself it was cheaper to run on gas, to justify the 150 quid I had spent on the conversion kit.

Having recorded all the facts for 6 months, I had to accept petrol was cheaper, even at £1.30 a litre. The only real advantage to be honest, was peace of mind safety wise, and the availability of gas on the cut.

There is no substitute for experience, and your findings are noted. I am still at the "maybe" stage so such experience is very useful.

[Theo]

You will need at least a 1kw genny if you run a charger anything over 25 amps.

 

That's a blow! I was looking at the Sterling battery charger (I don't have one ATM). The web site claims that the 30A charger has an input power of 450W which seemed well withing the capacity of a 750W gennie. The power factor of the charger was 0.976 which would bring the VA up to 461. Well within the 750W I would have thought.

 

N

[jenlyn]

 

That's a blow! I was looking at the Sterling battery charger (I don't have one ATM). The web site claims that the 30A charger has an input power of 450W which seemed well withing the capacity of a 750W gennie. The power factor of the charger was 0.976 which would bring the VA up to 461. Well within the 750W I would have thought.

 

N

I've installed several genny-charger kits on boats. Mainly Honda 1kw and 25amp chargers.

I did try a 30 amp, and it was fine if the batteries were not to flat.

You need to look into this a bit, or you will waste money.

At the moment, I run a kipor 2.6 with a victron 120. I use petrol, and the cost last year was £164 (not allowing for servicing). I run it for roughly an hour and a half to two hours a day from November to March. I use it once a week in the summer for 1 hour to do washing.

[Guest]

I've installed several genny-charger kits on boats. Mainly Honda 1kw and 25amp chargers.

I did try a 30 amp, and it was fine if the batteries were not to flat.

You need to look into this a bit, or you will waste money.

At the moment, I run a kipor 2.6 with a victron 120. I use petrol, and the cost last year was £164 (not allowing for servicing). I run it for roughly an hour and a half to two hours a day from November to March. I use it once a week in the summer for 1 hour to do washing.

That is how I get away with it. If the batteries are really down, I might have to run the engine initially, but I normally avoid this.

It will depend on the PF of the charger; some are better than others.

[jenlyn]

That is how I get away with it. If the batteries are really down, I might have to run the engine initially, but I normally avoid this.

It will depend on the PF of the charger; some are better than others.

Yep. I don't rate sterling anymore.

[MtB]

That's interesting. The advertising says that LPG is more efficient. (Never trust an ad man!)

 

N

 

 

The term 'efficiency' means different things to different peeps.

 

The technical meaning is the ratio of the energy in the fuel used to make leccy to the energy wasted in losses (mainly exhaust heat).

 

The technical efficiency on LPG over petrol could easily be higher, but masked by a far higher cost per Joule of LPG energy over Joule of petrol energy.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Mike the Boilerman

[by'eck]

Bear in mind that a generator running on propane will likely produce less power than on petrol.

 

Note also that a charger taking into account manufacturers claimed power draw and power factor, even though within genny manufacturers claimed output, may in reality overload the genny on startup if there isn't sufficient margin between the two.

 

Finally, given the low price inverter/generators are now available at, why is there this need to purchase one with such minimal power ouput such that its operating on the knife edge of its capabilities

[Theo]

Bear in mind that a generator running on propane will likely produce less power than on petrol.

 

Note also that a charger taking into account manufacturers claimed power draw and power factor, even though within genny manufacturers claimed output, may in reality overload the genny on startup if there isn't sufficient margin between the two.

 

Finally, given the low price inverter/generators are now available at, why is there this need to purchase one with such minimal power ouput such that its operating on the knife edge of its capabilities

 

That last point makes me think.

 

The only reason that I can come up with is to keep the weight of the unit down. Makes lifting on and off the boat easier.

 

Assuming that I get a 30A charger, is a sensible power output 1.5kW? I will have a look on the web to find a suitable generator and come back to check that it is OK.

 

Thanks for the advice so far.

 

N

[raymondh]

Can this be true? if so its a Honda rip off big time and already lpg converted for £500!!!

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Warrior-2-0-Silent-Digital-Inverter-LPG-Gas-Petrol-Suitcase-Generator-/201362939946?hash=item2ee22aa02a

 

Ray

[MoominPapa]

A data point on generator power, vs charger output.

 

One of these:

 

http://www.screwfix.com/p/impax-im800i-700w-inverter-generator-230v/15760

 

will run a 25A Mobitronic charger happily, but not a 45A one.

 

MP.

[Sea Dog]

Can this be true? if so its a Honda rip off big time and already lpg converted for £500!!!

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Warrior-2-0-Silent-Digital-Inverter-LPG-Gas-Petrol-Suitcase-Generator-/201362939946?hash=item2ee22aa02a

 

Ray

Lots of companies make products that make Honda stuff look expensive. Usually, Honda stuff doesn't need help to look expensive but as time goes by, particularly when you own the cheaper products, Honda often starts to look better value. A generator may be quite a good example of this phenomenon.

[peterboat]

Correct. I ran a gas Honda with that kit, only on a separate bottle. Having the low pressure regulator after the tee would work.

I found that the genny was not as efficient on gas. Petrol did in fact work out cheaper, but obviously a pain to get, and store.

It cant have been set up right you lose up to 20 percent efficiency when on propane but then again you are paying more per litre for gas then petrol so you are right its just that I refill bottles at just over 40 p per litre which is always going to save you money

[raymondh]

Lots of companies make products that make Honda stuff look expensive. Usually, Honda stuff doesn't need help to look expensive but as time goes by, particularly when you own the cheaper products, Honda often starts to look better value. A generator may be quite a good example of this phenomenon.

Not inferring Honda is ripping any one off, but that the genset in the link is a blatent copy of the Honda EU20i -- even the model EV20i???

Ray

Edited September 21, 2015 by raymondh