How good are the different boat builders

[rgriffiths]

I realise that this is big question but I have looked at lots of boats recently with the view to buying. Tell me if I am wrong but I have heard that Colecraft are pretty good and Springer are pretty cheap. Has anyone heard of Ironworks? Are they at the Colecraft end or the Springer end?

[robdalej]

I realise that this is big question but I have looked at lots of boats recently with the view to buying. Tell me if I am wrong but I have heard that Colecraft are pretty good and Springer are pretty cheap. Has anyone heard of Ironworks? Are they at the Colecraft end or the Springer end?

I would say there is a deal of difference between builders , some good and some not. Colecraft, Piper and many others at the good end of the market , Springers were built for an entirely different sector, although there are still many Springers still on the canals most of them will have had or wlll need some hull work diong by now.

It all depends on your budget but even boats like Colecraft , if an older model, may require work on them hull wise, never heard of ironwise

[BargeeSpud]

Only ever seen 1 Ironworks boat & I'd say they're not in the Colecraft/Piper class nor in the Springer class so they fit somewhere in the middle probably along with Arcrite from the same period, but not as good as Reeves & their contemporaries. Can't say how they compare to the mainstream builders of today like Tyler etc.

 

As the saying goes, you pays your money & you takes your choice.

Edited August 10, 2015 by BargeeSpud

[MisterDave]

although there are still many Springers still on the canals most of them will have had or wlll need some hull work diong by now.

 

Mine's lost 0.5mm in 36 years, not bad for a boat that's been set on fire and sunk. Met a guy in the midlands who had one same year as mine and he'd lost even less!

 

The thing with Springers seems to be the interior, it's all flimsy and it wears badly.

[churchward]

 

Mine's lost 0.5mm in 36 years, not bad for a boat that's been set on fire and sunk. Met a guy in the midlands who had one same year as mine and he'd lost even less!

 

The thing with Springers seems to be the interior, it's all flimsy and it wears badly.

I know quite a lot were built but it amazing how many Springers are still about and in use given they are supposed to be at the lower end of the quality scale. I have seen some very nice cared for examples that have never been over plated too. There are a lot of people out there owning and enjoying Springers.

[Neil2]

Whoever welded up the hull is only one factor in how "good" any boat is. The quality of the fit out, what sort of engine it has, and, crucially, how it's been looked after are also just as important if not more important than who built it, IMHO. Even a boat from a "name" builder doesn't carry a premium if it has been allowed to rust.

 

There are some boats around that were unashamedly built down to a price, Springer for one, Hallmark is another, but that doesn't mean they are bad boats. Paradoxically you might find a bespoke boat from a low volume builder less desirable if it has incorporated odd ideas/features insisted on by the person who commissioned it.

 

 

[Paul H]

I rembember a magazine survey where Ironworks came out as the cheapest - less than a Springer but this was partly explined as they were a one man band working outdoors and using reconditioned engines.

Paul

[MtB]

The design of the hull and cabin is another factor.

 

Once you begin to develop a more sophisticated 'eye' for the look of a boat, what looks perfectly acceptable to you now *might* begin to look a bit pedestrian even plain ugly in comparison to boats by some of the 'better' builders. Even if the weld quality of the hull and interior fit-out is comparable on all of them.

 

Put a Liverpool boat right next to a Colecraft look from one to the other, and you'll start to see differences. Put the Colecraft next to a Hudson and again, you'll see stuff about the Hudson that clearly shows where the extra money went. Put the Hudson next to something by a top flight builder, say Norton Canes or Simon Wain, and you'll see why sometimes people view Hudsons as rather blingy!

 

But if a Liverpool boat currently looks much the same to you as a Norton Canes, then take care in case you get pickier about aesthetic style as you grow in boating experience.

[Traveller]

I rembember a magazine survey where Ironworks came out as the cheapest - less than a Springer but this was partly explined as they were a one man band working outdoors and using reconditioned engines.

Paul

 

Bit like Charlie Fox back in the day then.

[Southern Star]

I'm told by other boaters that my boat, a Peter Nicholls, is one of the best there is, although I really don't know enough about boats to say whether that's true or not.

[blackrose]

 

Mine's lost 0.5mm in 36 years, not bad for a boat that's been set on fire and sunk. Met a guy in the midlands who had one same year as mine and he'd lost even less!

 

The thing with Springers seems to be the interior, it's all flimsy and it wears badly.

Depends on who fitted it out surely?

 

My old Springer lost a lot more steel than yours and in a lot less time! It was overplated after 24 years because it had lost about 2mm in places.

Edited August 10, 2015 by blackrose

[blackrose]

Put a Liverpool boat right next to a Colecraft look from one to the other, and you'll start to see differences.

I've done a fair bit of work on a friend's Colecraft and compared it to my Liverpool Boat. There are differences of course, but not as many and not nearly as significant as some would have us believe.

[Traveller]

I'm told by other boaters that my boat, a Peter Nicholls, is one of the best there is, although I really don't know enough about boats to say whether that's true or not.

Hope you are right ST. I have a Peter Nicholls also. She was a little "long in the tooth" when we bought her but she had a great hull survey. And a nice looking boat to boot :-)

[rgriffiths]

So what I seem to be hearing is ... as long as the hull is OK and I like the fit out .... the name is just a name. I have tried to search out Ironworks but found nothing.

[bizzard]

If it's the Ironwork boats I know of they were built in a yard in Nazeing near Broxbourne, only a few were built I think, built quite cheaply with very low tug style hulls for economy, either fitted with old s/h Lister SR2-3's or S/H or recon BMC 1.5's. Two of his hulls he built here and launched them here. I do know the chap, but I won't put his name up on the forum. I have not seen him for quite a few years now.

[BruceinSanity]

I've done a fair bit of work on a friend's Colecraft and compared it to my Liverpool Boat. There are differences of course, but not as many and not nearly as significant as some would have us believe.

AIUI from discussions on here and from talking to both satisfied and dissatisfied owners, the thing about Liverpool boats is that they vary a lot, presumably depending on the quality of the welders they happened to be using at the time. So some are absolutely fine and I know of at least one which started to sink on first launch (one of the welds on the end of a locker support strut had gone through the top of the swim).

 

So I'd go along with the consensus here — it doesn't matter who the builder is, if it's an older boat, check it out, with the aid of a surveyor or experienced friend if you don't have the skills to do so yourself.

[MtB]

I've done a fair bit of work on a friend's Colecraft and compared it to my Liverpool Boat. There are differences of course, but not as many and not nearly as significant as some would have us believe.

 

 

I was being literal. I meant the OP would see differences in styling and lines, the Colecraft being a more complex shape...

 

The gentle lift in the roofline at the fore end of the cabin on the Colecraft being the most obvious styling feature missing from the Liverpool boat.

Doesn't make it a 'better' boat technically, but it's an example of where the money goes on a 'better' shell.

[Boat&Bikes]

You MTB assume that your idea of a good looking boat is the correct view. You appear to fail to realise that others will see boat shapes differently to how you do. Ian .

[MtB]

You MTB assume that your idea of a good looking boat is the correct view. You appear to fail to realise that others will see boat shapes differently to how you do. Ian .

 

Hey, I take exception to that outrageous assertion!

 

I was very careful to draft my posts 8 and 17 in what I thought was a non-judgmental way. I fully appreciate beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

I was trying to reduce the OP' puzzlement by explaining where the money goes on differently priced boats built to similarly high engineering standards.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Mike the Boilerman

[Boat&Bikes]

Well Mike I never intended to offend, perhaps I read what you had posted in a different way to how it was intended. Have a lovely day . Ian .

[MtB]

No need to apologise.

 

Just a bit surprised that you think I can't see that other people's opinions vary on what makes a nice boat...

[cuthound]

Another difference between a "better" shell and a "budget" shell is in the length of the "swims" (the bits at the front and back of the shell which curve in- the longer the better). This affects how well the boat handles.

 

For example my first shareboat had a Pat Buckle she'll (budget end of market) and handled abysmally, also the shell was very square with little tumblehome and the rear of the semi-trad cabin was parallel without the gentle lift seen on "better" shells.

 

The second had a Reeves shell, and handled much better. It also IMO looked better with a distinctive, low, rounded bow and a gentle rise to the rear of the cabin roof.

 

My current boat has an Alexander shell and handles even better than the Reeves shell. It also has a gentle rise to the rear of the roof and nice touches like scrolls in the metalwork.

 

Remember that the only thing that you cannot change is the shell.

 

I suggest that you look at different makes of shell, from budget to top end, and then decide if you are prepared to pay more for the asthetic differences. If possible blag a test drive on a budget boat and one with a "better" shell to see how the handling compares.