which signal should I have used please?

[Bettie Boo]

OK so here's the scenario..

 

Slowly cruising along a very shallow pound today, far to shallow to get close to either side to moor up. While scrapping along the bottom we picked up assorted "stuff" on the prop, to the point we had to stop in the middle of the canal to clear it; on a straight section of canal so other boats could see us sitting in the middle, slightly off to the right hand side.

 

As I'm still not very good at remembering the different sound signals and what to use them for, I have a printed copy of the 5 main signals I keep in the Nicholson's which is kept on the top of the back hatch when we are cruising.

 

So while Dave was down clearing the prop, I was assigned to stand at the back and keep an eye out for boats coming in either direction. I looked at my "cheat sheet" and couldn't find a horn signal to cover....

 

We are currently unpowered and unable to move.

 

I used the bottom one a Long and 2 shorts - as it says it's good for "restricted ability to manoeuvre; was that correct even though it was lovely and sunny and no sign of FOG anywhere?

 

As it was only one boat came past and they said they didn't have a clue what the sound signals meant, and my waving my arms gave them a much clearer idea that we were having problems so they slowed down to a very slow tick over before proceeding past us.

 

 

** Just as a foot note, I think we've been pretty lucky really. This was only the second time we've had to stop to clear the prop in over a year of cruising. Any other time he's been able to clear it with a bit of reverse/forward/reverse action as it's only been some pond weed

[b0atman]

boats on the Mersey have been wandering all over after hearing that horn signal

[Robbo]

As one long and two shorts is restricted ability to manoeuvre then that's the right one.

[Bettie Boo]

Thanks for that Rob

 

Mike - couldn't have been me causing the ruckus on the Merseyside - At best our horn sounds more like the sound Beaker on the Muppets makes....meep, meep, meep

[Robbo]

Thanks for that Rob

 

But a you said, apart from a very few, no one would know what it meant on the canals.

[Alan de Enfield]

Yup - it means, Unable to manoeuvre, OR, not under command, OR constrained by draught, OR, fishing

 

You do NOT need to be "drunk out of your mind", with a broken engine/gearbox, whilst trying to fish in water shallower than your draught

[mayalld]

Actually, the proposed signal is incorrect, because it is a colregs signal, not a BW bye laws signal.

 

Whilst the basic 3 signals (left right and astern) are identical, the bye laws specify different signals beyond that (and colregs permits this)

 

On CRT waters, a vessel that is aground in the fairway should sound 5 short blasts.

[Bettie Boo]

But a you said, apart from a very few, no one would know what it meant on the canals.

 

 

But a you said, apart from a very few, no one would know what it meant on the canals.

 

LOL - No - I said the couple that passed us whilst Dave was clearing the prop didn't have any idea what the horn signal meant, but clued in that we were having problems by me waving my arms in a crossed fashion

 

I was just looking for some reassurance that I had used the correct signal - I'd hate to think was tooting out the signal that we had a contagious illness on-board instead of we were unpowered and unable to move; imagine the havoc that would have caused if they were able to understand sound signals

 

Yup - it means, Unable to manoeuvre, OR, not under command, OR constrained by draught, OR, fishing

 

You do NOT need to be "drunk out of your mind", with a broken engine/gearbox, whilst trying to fish in water shallower than your draught

 

Thanks Alan - If I remember correctly it was you, some months back, that posted where to find the sound signals on the net and suggest printing off a copy to have at hand near the tiller. Which I did, as it sounded like a good piece of advice for us novices to follow.

 

Sorry you've lost me re: your second sentence about being drunk...I was on black coffee only and Dave was on his third mug of tea....funny enough it was a piece of fishing line with a hook on the end of it that had in turn picked up a piece of T-shirt mixed with some pond weed that was the culprit this time.

Actually, the proposed signal is incorrect, because it is a colregs signal, not a BW bye laws signal.

 

Whilst the basic 3 signals (left right and astern) are identical, the bye laws specify different signals beyond that (and colregs permits this)

 

On CRT waters, a vessel that is aground in the fairway should sound 5 short blasts.

 

So have I got the wrong signals printed off? If so, where do I find the correct ones Dave? Do you have a link please?

[mayalld]

http://www.britishwaterways.co.uk/media/documents/foi/legal/BW_General_Canal_Bye-laws.pdf

 

Bye law 12

Edited August 8, 2015 by mayalld

[Tony Dunkley]

OK so here's the scenario..

 

Slowly cruising along a very shallow pound today, far to shallow to get close to either side to moor up. While scrapping along the bottom we picked up assorted "stuff" on the prop, to the point we had to stop in the middle of the canal to clear it; on a straight section of canal so other boats could see us sitting in the middle, slightly off to the right hand side.

 

As I'm still not very good at remembering the different sound signals and what to use them for, I have a printed copy of the 5 main signals I keep in the Nicholson's which is kept on the top of the back hatch when we are cruising.

 

So while Dave was down clearing the prop, I was assigned to stand at the back and keep an eye out for boats coming in either direction. I looked at my "cheat sheet" and couldn't find a horn signal to cover....

 

We are currently unpowered and unable to move.

 

I used the bottom one a Long and 2 shorts - as it says it's good for "restricted ability to manoeuvre; was that correct even though it was lovely and sunny and no sign of FOG anywhere?

 

As it was only one boat came past and they said they didn't have a clue what the sound signals meant, and my waving my arms gave them a much clearer idea that we were having problems so they slowed down to a very slow tick over before proceeding past us.

 

 

** Just as a foot note, I think we've been pretty lucky really. This was only the second time we've had to stop to clear the prop in over a year of cruising. Any other time he's been able to clear it with a bit of reverse/forward/reverse action as it's only been some pond weed

 

There is no recognized sound signal for " I'm stuck in the middle of a half empty pound, trying to clear a load of rubbish off the propeller thanks to C&RT's Water Resources Management being as useless as the people that dreamed it up".

[mayalld]

 

There is no recognized sound signal for " I'm stuck in the middle of a half empty pound, trying to clear a load of rubbish off the propeller thanks to C&RT's Water Resources Management being as useless as the people that dreamed it up".

Signals exist to impart useful information to other vessels about what you are doing.

 

They don't exist to facilitate ranting opinions as to why you are doing it.

[howardang]

Actually, the proposed signal is incorrect, because it is a colregs signal, not a BW bye laws signal.

Whilst the basic 3 signals (left right and astern) are identical, the bye laws specify different signals beyond that (and colregs permits this)

On CRT waters, a vessel that is aground in the fairway should sound 5 short blasts.

Bye law 12 specifically applies to fog and other restricted visibility scenarios which don't apply here.

 

However, whatever signal is sounded I suspect that very few people would understand the meaning, so as long as it draws attention to the situation is better than nothing.

 

Howard

Edited August 8, 2015 by howardang

[Bettie Boo]

http://www.britishwaterways.co.uk/media/documents/foi/legal/BW_General_Canal_Bye-laws.pdf

 

Bye law 12

 

 

Thanks for the link Dave - got it...rule 12 (d)

 

I must say the other one is easier to read when you need to have a quick look. I'll use the info on the link you provided and draw up my own diagram for further use.

 

Ta

 

B~

[bizzard]

A road menders STOP-GO board on a stick might be useful in that situation.

[mayalld]

Bye law 12 specifically applies to fog and other restricted visibility scenarios which don't apply here.

 

However, whatever signal is sounded I suspect that very few people would understand the meaning, so as long as it draws attention to the situation is better than nothing.

 

Howard

Bye law 12 makes those signals mandatory in restricted visibility only (curiously signalling a turn is always mandatory CRT missing a trick on prosecutions here)

 

However it cannot be wrong to sound a signal that isn't compulsory

[Bettie Boo]

A road menders STOP-GO board on a stick might be useful in that situation.

 

See, I should have just PM'd you Bizzard - I just knew you'd have an answer

[bizzard]

 

See, I should have just PM'd you Bizzard - I just knew you'd have an answer

Well Bettie Boo, I reckon there's more chance of folk understanding one of those than all the other warning methods like hooters, flags, semaphore, morse. In actual fact a homemade road cone megaphone to accompany the S/T board might be wise, just in case someone can't read or is colour blind.

[Woodstock]

Have to admit - I wouldn't have known the horn signals but if you were at the front of the boat waving as you were we'd have realised something was amiss and slowed down

[bizzard]

Have to admit - I wouldn't have known the horn signals but if you were at the front of the boat waving as you were we'd have realised something was amiss and slowed down

And you wouldn't even have heard it if you were as deaf as door-post.

[Tony Dunkley]

Signals exist to impart useful information to other vessels about what you are doing.

 

 

That's right, they do, but that doesn't alter the fact that there isn't a recognized signal for the situation described in the OP, probably because except in the world of canal boating fairyland there would be no reason for having one.

[mayalld]

 

That's right, they do, but that doesn't alter the fact that there isn't a recognized signal for the situation described in the OP, probably because except in the world of canal boating fairyland there would be no reason for having one.

The fact is that there IS a signal for "I am aground in the fairway". It is 5 short blasts.

 

The use of that signal in limited visibility is mandated.

 

The use of that signal in good visibility is not forbidden.

 

In any case, if you believe that the other boat can't see that you are aground, that amounts to limited visibility.

[Tony Dunkley]

The fact is that there IS a signal for "I am aground in the fairway". It is 5 short blasts.

 

The use of that signal in limited visibility is mandated.

 

The use of that signal in good visibility is not forbidden.

 

In any case, if you believe that the other boat can't see that you are aground, that amounts to limited visibility.

 

Only if the approaching boat is being steered by someone with a Guide Dog and they can't see how low the pound is.

If the dog was steering the boat, then I expect the appropriate signal would be 5 short barks.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Tony Dunkley

[ditchcrawler]

If I was approaching any boat in the middle of the cut not moving I would slow down, more so if it was a fat one, I wouldn't need a sound signal to tell me there was something amiss and I shouldn't carry blindly on at 4 mph down the middle of the channel

[Tony Dunkley]

If I was approaching any boat in the middle of the cut not moving I would slow down, more so if it was a fat one, I wouldn't need a sound signal to tell me there was something amiss and I shouldn't carry blindly on at 4 mph down the middle of the channel

 

From what was said in the OP, it doesn't sound as if you, or any other approaching boat would be able to bash on at anything like 4 mph in these or any similar circumstances. Quoted from OP ~ "Slowly cruising along a very shallow pound today, far to shallow to get close to either side to moor up. While scrapping along the bottom we picked up assorted "stuff" on the prop, to the point we had to stop in the middle of the canal to clear it; on a straight section of canal so other boats could see us sitting in the middle, slightly off to the right hand side.

Why it was imagined that any kind of signal, by sound or any other method, would be necessary in circumstances such as this is quite beyond comprehension.

I don't make a habit out of laughing at the anxieties and avoidable difficulties that inexperienced amateur boaters so often inflict upon themselves, but I must confess to being somewhat amused by the problems that brought about the OP being encountered by someone who was so very recently taking such great exception to my criticism of C&RT's inability to maintain water levels at or around what they should be.

Edited August 9, 2015 by Tony Dunkley

[David Mack]

If I was approaching any boat in the middle of the cut not moving I would slow down, more so if it was a fat one, I wouldn't need a sound signal to tell me there was something amiss and I shouldn't carry blindly on at 4 mph down the middle of the channel

 

Quite. In practice you don't need to make any sound signals at all in such a situation.

 

Puts me in mind of a situation a few years back when we were heading south on the Staffs & Worcs hoping to get to Stourport for the night. Somewhere in the northern suburbs of the town we went hard aground in the middle of the channel just as night was falling. Despite lots of heaving on poles and pulling on ropes and rocking the boat we couldn't get free, and so there was no alternative but to stay put for the night, and wait for a passing boat in the morning to snatch us off. I don't think the residents of the nearby houses would have been too happy if we had sounded five or more blasts in rapid succession at intervals of not more than one minute throughout the night.