Problem with starting engine

[Dave Payne]

Went out this weekend, travelled all day Saturday about 7 hours in with no breaks, stopped for the night, shut engine down, went back out to start engine after 20 minutes to boost batteries and had the issue,

 

Turned key to pre heat for a few seconds, then to start, nothing, no clicks of the starter, just dead, everything was turned on and had done nothing different, left it for the night got up in morning and it started first time.

 

Only things that spring to mind for me is the starter or spli relay having an issue?

 

Does the engine have any sort of protection if to hot as it had been run for a few hours?

 

Stopped a few times on Sunday and didnt have any issues, although took it very easy all day as in the ashby.

 

 

[Ray T]

What state is your starter battery?

 

Happens more in winter but batteries can just "give up".

 

Worth a check?

[Dave Payne]

Not good tbh, none of them are, being an ex hire boat they have not been looked after, but i don't think that could be the issue could it?

 

Cruising for 7 hours, nothing after stopping for 20 minutes, left overnight and starts first time in morning and couple of times through the day?

Just remembered it did the same in the marina the other week, i stuck the gennie on it for 10 minutes and it seemed to put life into them, tried this also sat night but didn't do anything!

[bizzard]

Not good tbh, none of them are, being an ex hire boat they have not been looked after, but i don't think that could be the issue could it?

 

Cruising for 7 hours, nothing after stopping for 20 minutes, left overnight and starts first time in morning and couple of times through the day?

Battery is probably ok as it started the engine next day. I'd check all your battery terminals, Engine neg- cable to battery connections, Isolator terminals, starter motor cable terminals, large and small. Starter button-key switch terminal connections. All for cleanliness and tightness. If it does it again, keep the starter button pressed in or the key held over to start whilst feeling the battery and starter terminals for heating up. Any of these overheating is a bad connection causing high resistance.

[John V]

When you say you turn the key and nothing happens, does the ind light show and does it still remain on when you turn the key to "start". Are there any panel indicators or meters etc that stay on when you turn the key? If they go "dim" or "out" when you turn the key then check.......Bizzards list 'cos he can type faster than me

However if the light etc stay bright it is more likely one of these three ....Starter solenoid, intermediate starter relay, ignition key contacts.

[bizzard]

Battery is probably ok as it started the engine next day. I'd check all your battery terminals, Engine neg- cable to battery connections, Isolator terminals, starter motor cable terminals, large and small. Starter button-key switch terminal connections. All for cleanliness and tightness. If it does it again, keep the starter button pressed in or the key held over to start whilst feeling the battery and starter terminals for heating up. Any of these overheating is a bad connection causing high resistance.

One other thing. If you have an electric stop solenoid make sure its switching on when starting up. Or indeed a manual one, you might have tried to start with it still out in the stop position. No belay that You said nothing happened when trying to start.

Edited August 3, 2015 by bizzard

[Dave Payne]

Had a quick look at battery terminals, all appear ok, but will have a good look tonight.

 

I did hear and see something clicking on the engine and wondered what it was, maybe this is the electric stop thing, kind of like barrel shaped with a little lever on the top that moved when i turned the key off?

 

You turn the key to on which brings on the battery and oil lights, then heat which makes the buzzer sound, then start at which point nothing.

 

Again just thinking about it, at one point when it was not starting, flicking the key to start and holding made the rev dial jump about a little bit, would this mean anything?

[John V]

If there was a bad enough battery connection to make the starter fail to turn at all then ther would be much more to see than a needle flickering. Needles would go to zero lights go very dim or out completely, Generally with that scenario there is normally a loud click from the starter motor as the solenoid throws in. One source of a click from the engine (as opposed to from the starter) is the intermediate relay. This is usually a small black plastic case mounted on or very near the engine. it is the type of relay you find in a car operating various bits of kit, dipping headlights etc. If this is the source of the click then check and clean if necessary the blade connectors. One of the wires from this relay will go to the small terminal on the starter motor solenoid. If you have a test meter measure the voltage on the small terminal of the starter when the key is turned to start. If you don't have a meter connect a small 12v bulb between the terminal and earth and turn the key. If the small relay clicks but you don't have voltage on the starter solenoid then the relay is faulty. If you do have a voltage then the starter solenoid is faulty.

 

edit to add.....if it is not the relay clicking then post back and I'll go on.

Edited August 3, 2015 by John V

[Naughty Cal]

Went out this weekend, travelled all day Saturday about 7 hours in with no breaks, stopped for the night, shut engine down, went back out to start engine after 20 minutes to boost batteries and had the issue,

 

Turned key to pre heat for a few seconds, then to start, nothing, no clicks of the starter, just dead, everything was turned on and had done nothing different, left it for the night got up in morning and it started first time.

 

Only things that spring to mind for me is the starter or spli relay having an issue?

 

Does the engine have any sort of protection if to hot as it had been run for a few hours?

 

Stopped a few times on Sunday and didnt have any issues, although took it very easy all day as in the ashby.

 

 

Can't help with your starting problem but it does sound like your domestic batteries are shot if they cant manage 20 minutes without the engine running!

[5thHorseman]

Somewhere on the wiring loom near the engine there may be a multi-pin male/female connector block covered in a black (usually) rubber shroud. It is easy to knock it when you are checking oil, water etc and it can disconnect on one or two pins with strange and sometimes intermittent effects. Make sure it is fully pushed together

 

ETA and sometimes intermittent

Edited August 3, 2015 by 5thHorseman

[bizzard]

And if it does seem like the starter motor and to check it out direct, go to it directly with a pair of jump leads from the battery. Black neg- clamp from battery onto the starter body or nearby metal engine part. Red pos+ clamp onto the solenoids large ''IN'' terminal, the one where the pos+ cable is from the battery and then fix a thin bit of wire to that same big Pos+ clamp and touch the other end to the small spade or nut terminal that is alongside which is the one from where the juice flows from the starter key switch and the starter should start to turn the engine. Be careful attaching the red cable clamp to the solenoid for fear of big flashing sparks if it touches any close by metal. If the starter motor is ok it will run and turn the engine. Leave the key in the OFF position whilst doing this test. because you don't want the engine to actually start up.

[Dave Payne]

Can't help with your starting problem but it does sound like your domestic batteries are shot if they cant manage 20 minutes without the engine running!

 

 

Only started it up as the lad was playing the Wii U so thought it might be best to top it up, they were not showing any signs of needing it.

[Tony Brooks]

There are many things this COULD be and we could give you tests until the cows come home, especially when you are told battery termination may be the cause and you respond to say they LOOK OK. They may well do but that does not mean they are making good contact with the battery terminals. (Not a pop at you but an explanation as to why this sort of thing is difficult).

 

It could also be a faulty master switch, and yes batteries, especially start batteries can suddenly just fail totally.

 

Maybe if you give us a general idea about your actual location a more knowledgeable forum member might pop along to help diagnose the problem.

[Dave Payne]

No problem Tony, i understand its hard to say what is the cause, but some pointers to look at will help me.

 

And of course if anyone is on the ashby this week it would be a great help to have a more experienced set of eyes look at things.

[Machpoint005]

Somewhere on the wiring loom near the engine there may be a multi-pin male/female connector block covered in a black (usually) rubber shroud. It is easy to knock it when you are checking oil, water etc and it can disconnect on one or two pins with strange and sometimes intermittent effects. Make sure it is fully pushed together

 

ETA and sometimes intermittent

 

Good point, Mine came undone a few days ago, but whilst the engine was running, and I couldn't stop the engine. Found the fault within a couple of minutes, and got everything working again including the stop solenoid. One early symptom was the loss of the tacho indication, so that was one of the first of the pins to lose contact.

 

The multi pin connector on my Beta 43 sits across the back of the engine near the gearbox.

[Jamboat]

Battery is probably ok as it started the engine next day. I'd check all your battery terminals, Engine neg- cable to battery connections, Isolator terminals, starter motor cable terminals, large and small. Starter button-key switch terminal connections. All for cleanliness and tightness. If it does it again, keep the starter button pressed in or the key held over to start whilst feeling the battery and starter terminals for heating up. Any of these overheating is a bad connection causing high resistance.

We have just had the same problem, did it a couple of times over a few days then finally gave up all together on Sunday, we checked & double checked connections & eventually rang RCR as we were baffled, took Sam, engineer from RCR 1 minute to sort it, a sheathed connection we had n't spotted, it had just vibrated loose, felt daft that we had missed it but we will be wiser next time;)

 

Edited to add - it was the multi connector in the engine bay.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Jamboat

[5thHorseman]

Edited to add - it was the multi connector in the engine bay.

I suggest you put a couple of plastic cable ties x-wise over the connector to stop it happening again

[ROBDEN]

Have you checked the oil level?

Yes, that's right, the oil level.

 

A friend of mine had the same problem as you are having....also with a Nannie.

He'd run all day and no problems. Stop the engine while waiting at a lock or something, and then couldn't re-start it.

He'd get a couple of clicks or noises. Wait for half an houror so and it would start again.

It may then run for days before it would do it again.

Checked all the electrics with meters etc but all were ok.

 

It turned out to be a badly worn fuel injector.

Too much fuel in cylinder was causing the engine to hydro-lock(?).

Wait for a while (sometimes minutes, sometime hours) and the fuel would run away, freeing the cylinder to operate normally.

 

Hence, checking the oil.

It was the only clue we could find.....the oil level was going up because of the fuel running into it.

 

He replaced the fuel injectors and it never happend again. This was about two years ago.

 

Just a thought. Rob....

 

 

ETA...He had this problem, on and off, for over a year.

When it first happened he checked and cleaned the battery terminals.

Then it started.

Next time he checked them again, they were tight but he still went through motions.

He thought there was an internal problem with the battery, so bought a new one.

All was well, until the next time.

He replaced a lot of things because every time he tried something, it would start afterwards.

Thinking about it now, the only common denominator was the time.

Edited August 3, 2015 by ROBDEN

[Jamboat]

I suggest you put a couple of plastic cable ties x-wise over the connector to stop it happening again

RCR man did just that