pay as you go moorings ?

[Jerra]

I think that maybe you are missing the point. I don't think anyone expects the system to be perfect but there are many areas where CRT waste money that would be better spent on the system. A in depth analysis of the annual accounts would show you some glaring examples.

It is expected that boat licence fees will increase by a staggering amount before 2020 I have heard figures of 17.5%

Talking of missing the point I think you missed my edit. I accept there is waste however the impression most forumites give is that there are many many places where things are well below par. Do you think that there is sufficient funds to correct even half of the problems (assuming no money is wasted)?

I didn't realise you wanted to play a game. You should have said . Anyway, do some research and let me know how you get on.

Try answering this question if you find the other not to your taste. Do you think that (assuming no waste whatever) there is enough in CRT funds to correct half of the things which need attention on the system let along indulge in preventative maintenance?

[cotswoldsman]

Talking of missing the point I think you missed my edit. I accept there is waste however the impression most forumites give is that there are many many places where things are well below par. Do you think that there is sufficient funds to correct even half of the problems (assuming no money is wasted)?

Try answering this question if you find the other not to your taste. Do you think that (assuming no waste whatever) there is enough in CRT funds to correct half of the things which need attention on the system let along indulge in preventative maintenance?

I think to asume no money is wasted rather misses the point and makes your question rather difficult.

I guess the real unknown is what people's expectations are of a perfect system. Firstly we have to accept that a 200 year old infastructure is never going to be perfect. We all have different expectations. I have cruised from Burscough to Kidderminster so far this year and have experienced no major problems. I have found some things that could be better with just a little amount of spend. I do however think that CRT need to seriously refocus their attention away from matters such as creating more restricted visitor moorings to looking at preventative Maintance. I do think that CRT is over staffed and is in need of a complete restructuring. I find it difficult to understand why in this day and age we still need 12 different waterways areas all staffed locally I think this could be reduced to 6 and the money saved on that could fund more bankside staff. When ever I visit Milton Keynes I am amazed at the number of people that just seem to do nothing other than sit in front of computer screens or in meetings. There is a lot of duplication of work between MK and the local Waterways offices.

Anyway to answer your question there will never be enough money but money they do have could be spent far better and the answer is not introducing a lot of overstay charges that even if collect would not be cost recoverable when balanced against the cost of monitoring and collection.

[Ricco1]

I'd expect licence fees to rise, given that CRT are strapped for cash and boaters licence fees are the easiest and most obvious way of increasing their coffers. 4% a year isn't insignificant but it's probably not so high as to cause widespread anarchy amongst boaters.

[MtB]

I'd expect licence fees to rise, given that CRT are strapped for cash and boaters licence fees are the easiest and most obvious way of increasing their coffers. 4% a year isn't insignificant but it's probably not so high as to cause widespread anarchy amongst boaters.

 

 

It's closer to 3% a year, not 4%. Then deduct inflation.

 

Hardly what normal people wold describe as a "staggering rise".

[Ricco1]

I'd describe it as a fairly significant rise, but no more than that.

 

Mind you these days, when almost everything is 'incredible', if the media got hold of this information they'd more than likely describe the rise as beyond staggering.

[Paul C]

What makes you think they need more money? Seriously, tell me why you think they don't have sufficient funds.

 

They need to raise more money in the next few years because the government grant, which is a significant source of income, is declining. In detail, the conditional grant of £10m/year from 2015/15 to 2021/22 is NOT index linked so declines in real terms (unless inflation remains at zero....)

Whether they need more money overall, or less money overall, or the same, is another issue.

 

Playing devil's advocate which is better a 100% rise in license fee or pay as you go visitor moorings?

 

One thing is certain if the canal system isn't to be broken up and privatised CRT needs to raise more money. The question is how?

 

ETA Link: https://www.waterways.org.uk/pdf/crt_funding_notes

Edited July 26, 2015 by Paul C

[Jerra]

I'd expect licence fees to rise, given that CRT are strapped for cash

Jenlyn appears to think this isn't the case at least he does when I say it.

[cotswoldsman]

 

 

 

They need to raise more money in the next few years because the government grant, which is a significant source of income, is declining. In detail, the conditional grant of £10m/year from 2015/15 to 2021/22 is NOT index linked so declines in real terms (unless inflation remains at zero....)

Whether they need more money overall, or less money overall, or the same, is another issue.

 

ETA Link: https://www.waterways.org.uk/pdf/crt_funding_notes

Not quite sure you are correct from memory the core grant is £39 million and is linked to inflation well it is linked to the gdp deflator that historicly runs slightly higher than inflation. The core grant runs until 2026/27

 

Edit to say the conditional grant is subject to review annual

Edited July 26, 2015 by cotswoldsman

[kris88]

I think where he's getting mixed up is that CRT got 10million extra this year. Of which I understand 2 million got spent on extra enforcement.

Regards kris

[jenlyn]

Jenlyn appears to think this isn't the case at least he does when I say it.

[cotswoldsman]

I think where he's getting mixed up is that CRT got 10million extra this year. Of which I understand 2 million got spent on extra enforcement.

Regards kris

Yes the conditional grant is not the long term funding that is the Core Grant and as I said that is linked to GDP Deflator

[peterboat]

I think to asume no money is wasted rather misses the point and makes your question rather difficult.

I guess the real unknown is what people's expectations are of a perfect system. Firstly we have to accept that a 200 year old infastructure is never going to be perfect. We all have different expectations. I have cruised from Burscough to Kidderminster so far this year and have experienced no major problems. I have found some things that could be better with just a little amount of spend. I do however think that CRT need to seriously refocus their attention away from matters such as creating more restricted visitor moorings to looking at preventative Maintance. I do think that CRT is over staffed and is in need of a complete restructuring. I find it difficult to understand why in this day and age we still need 12 different waterways areas all staffed locally I think this could be reduced to 6 and the money saved on that could fund more bankside staff. When ever I visit Milton Keynes I am amazed at the number of people that just seem to do nothing other than sit in front of computer screens or in meetings. There is a lot of duplication of work between MK and the local Waterways offices.

Anyway to answer your question there will never be enough money but money they do have could be spent far better and the answer is not introducing a lot of overstay charges that even if collect would not be cost recoverable when balanced against the cost of monitoring and collection.

I agree with you completely John lots of management seem to be busy doing nothing nothing the whole day long to quote a certain song and bank staff are run ragged. And of course its the management that receive the lions share of the wages and expenses time for a well thought out change

 

Peter

[Jerra]

You would do well to heed that yourself.

[jenlyn]

You would do well to heed that yourself.

[bassplayer]

 

 

Nor have I.

 

I think post 118 is the first in this thread to bring it up.

 

And yes I'm jealous of CCers. It's my goal in life to get my business redesigned so I can CC. At the moment it's highly geographically focused and it pays for my boats, so quite a risk.

 

Not sure why you think this means I'm a CC basher. CM bashing is fair game, yes, but not CCing.

But arn't a lot of these debates still driven by 'it's not fair because CC'ers (and CM'ers) don't have to pay for a mooring'?

[Higgs]

But arn't a lot of these debates still driven by 'it's not fair because CC'ers (and CM'ers) don't have to pay for a mooring'?

 

No, no, and, no. It's not as if a CC'er had some specially privileged opportunity that is closed to other boaters. Moorings aren't obligatory and anyone can decide to CC. In the long term permanent sense, moorings are not free and are a matter of choice. As long as that choice is there to all boaters, there is no ground to view CC'ers as getting away with something. If a boater with a mooring feels that way, then, all they need do is give up their mooring and CC, save themselves the cost of a mooring. CC'ers are not forcing them to keep a home mooring.

[bassplayer]

No, no, and, no. It's not as if a CC'er had some specially privileged opportunity that is closed to other boaters. Moorings aren't obligatory and anyone can decide to CC. In the long term permanent sense, moorings are not free and are a matter of choice. As long as that choice is there to all boaters, there is no ground to view CC'ers as getting away with something. If a boater with a mooring feels that way, then, all they need do is give up their mooring and CC, save themselves the cost of a mooring. CC'ers are not forcing them to keep a home mooring.

I quite agree but I'm not sure if everyone here does...I hope so....

[magnetman]

. Edited July 27, 2015 by magnetman

[MtB]

It isn't CCers who come in for criticism on the 'getting something for nothing' basis, it's the fake CCers.

 

Those who need to stay in one area but declare CC to avoid paying for a mooring.

 

But I'm sure you know that really.

[magnetman]

[bassplayer]

It isn't CCers who come in for criticism on the 'getting something for nothing' basis, it's the fake CCers.

 

Those who need to stay in one area but declare CC to avoid paying for a mooring.

 

But I'm sure you know that really.

The problem is that 'fake CC'ers' is a subjective term. what might seem fake to you or me isn't to others...

 

I think it would be a pity if we ended up with a parking meter mentality on the cut. The whole point of boating and the water world is to get away from the crap we experience in the land world. As has been pointed out already, CRT get plenty of revenue from other sources and there is an opportunity to cut costs by giving up on silly enforcement schemes and thinning out roles which don't provide any benefit.

 

CRT should just concentrate on maintaining the system and stop pretending to be police or traffic wardens.

[kris88]

Exactly this heavy handed enforcement seems to be a remnant of BW era policy, or is it the enforcement dept justifying there existence.

Regards kris

[bassplayer]

Exactly this heavy handed enforcement seems to be a remnant of BW era policy, or is it the enforcement dept justifying there existence.

Regards kris

Probably...