Imperial or Metric

[Beaker]

 

If she was 57' before, then the answer is yes.

 

Peter.

 

Well, durr! What do you think I am, some kind of muppet?

I used to like the plywood when it was *8ft x 4ft x 6mm

 

It still is, near as dammit, 2440mm x 1220mm.

[dixi188]

Started my apprenticeship in 1969. Was told in college that after 1971 everything would be metric!

I'm still working on and off in the aircraft industry and most things are still imperial as the Americans rule the air. We do have metric rivets, ie: 3.2 and 4mm dia. but they are really 1/8" and 5/32". All the bolts have unified threads and use A/F (inch) spanners.

The Americans use the phrase "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"

[Jerra]

Why should anybody dictate what we measure stuff in?

 

Do you use metric shoe sizes, or are your shoes measured in barleycorns?

I use and have done for many years metric measurements in all things (some such as temperature all my life). I suppose there is no more reason for somebody to dictate measurements to you, than there is to dictate all the other things such as speed limits. Do you still pay for things in pounds shillings and pence? I know it isn't truly metric but that was the start of metrication. Why should they dictate to you keep on using the good old lsd.

[Machpoint005]

 

If people stopped trying to use imperial and got on with it there would be no problem. The met office are slowly stopping translating into degrees F.

 

Yes, and if we'd done it in 1971 the problem would long since have gone away.

 

But the met office isn't doing away with degF nearly fast enough, at least, not in local TV weather forecasts. If they stopped forthwith people would quickly learn what the temperature in degC means -- that is, if they don't already know (and I think they do!).

 

On a more general note, standardisation is the key to trade and progress, and we already have a world standard. It's called SI.

[Jerra]

 

Yes, and if we'd done it in 1971 the problem would long since have gone away.

 

But the met office isn't doing away with degF nearly fast enough, at least, not in local TV weather forecasts. If they stopped forthwith people would quickly learn what the temperature in degC means -- that is, if they don't already know (and I think they do!).

 

On a more general note, standardisation is the key to trade and progress, and we already have a world standard. It's called SI.

Totally agree the problem is/was the people like some on here who say "Why should anybody dictate what we measure in" and single mindedly refuse to change.

 

Like the farmer who rang up his supplier and asked for a 40 gallon drum of xyz knowing full well a 200 L drum would appear.

[Athy]

 

 

Like the farmer who rang up his supplier and asked for a 40 gallon drum of xyz knowing full well a 200 L drum would appear.

And why should he not? he knows what he wants, and so does the supplier.

I never use metric when buying food. If I order a quarter of ham, half a pound of bacon or a pound of potatoes, the seller always knows what I want, so obviously many people do the same.

[Jerra]

And why should he not? he knows what he wants, and so does the supplier.

I never use metric when buying food. If I order a quarter of ham, half a pound of bacon or a pound of potatoes, the seller always knows what I want, so obviously many people do the same.

I think you will find that doing that is strictly speaking illegal. I had a mate who pulled a customer a pint in a lined glass but filled it to the brim. The customer was a weights and measures inspector who pointed out that he had asked for a pint and it was illegal to serve less or for that matter more. Which is why if you ask a butcher for a pound of mince and the gather some up and weight it they tell you the amount and ask if it is OK.

[Athy]

I think you will find that doing that is strictly speaking illegal. I had a mate who pulled a customer a pint in a lined glass but filled it to the brim. The customer was a weights and measures inspector who pointed out that he had asked for a pint and it was illegal to serve less or for that matter more. Which is why if you ask a butcher for a pound of mince and the gather some up and weight it they tell you the amount and ask if it is OK.

But that would be the same of I'd asked for half a litre of beer of half a kilogram of mince, so I can't see that it affects the imperial v. metric discussion at all.

[gazza]

Surely it's not illegal to give out more than a measured amount? Its fool hardy from a business perspective, but I can't possibly imagine its illegal?

 

Selling goods less than the prescribed measure and charging full price is obviously not on at all.

 

No mention of Max for alcohol:-

 

https://www.gov.uk/weights-measures-and-packaging-the-law/units-of-measurement

Edited July 8, 2015 by gazza

[Athy]

Surely it's not illegal to give out more than a measured amount? Its fool hardy from a business perspective, but I can't possibly imagine its illegal?

 

 

Actually, I believe that technically it is: if you ask for a pound or a pint, that is what you should legally be sold. That said, I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted for giving long (as opposed to short) measure.

[gazza]

Actually, I believe that technically it is: if you ask for a pound or a pint, that is what you should legally be sold. That said, I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted for giving long (as opposed to short) measure.

Edited to add a link in my last post, I can't see anything....

 

I've often wondered how accurate our local scrap metal merchants scales are

[alan_fincher]

Actually not. That was the scale of Airfix's model aircraft kits. OO scale (4mm to the foot) works out at something like 1/80th - which did not stop Airfix selling a series of "trackside

Errm no.....

 

Get your calculator out, the actual ratio implied by 4mm to the foot is neither 1:72, nor 1:80. It is actually 1:76.2.

 

If you are genuinely talking about "00" gauge, then you are talking about models built at 4mm to the foot, but running on HO gauge track, where corresponding continental models were actually built at 3.5mm to the foot.

 

The actual track gauge of "00" is only 16.5 mm, so actually at 4mm to the foot only represents a real life gauge of 4' 3", whereas of course British standard gauge railways are actually 4' 8.5" gauge. Hence British "OO" models look top heavy on the track, compared to the real world, as the track appears almost "half a foot" too narrow in gauge.

 

("Anoraks are us"!)

[Athy]

Errm no.....

 

Get your calculator out, the actual ratio implied by 4mm to the foot is neither 1:72, nor 1:80. It is actually 1:76.2.

 

If you are genuinely talking about "00" gauge, then you are talking about models built at 4mm to the foot, but running on HO gauge track, where corresponding continental models were actually built at 3.5mm to the foot.

 

The actual track gauge of "00" is only 16.5 mm, so actually at 4mm to the foot only represents a real life gauge of 4' 3", whereas of course British standard gauge railways are actually 4' 8.5" gauge. Hence British "OO" models look top heavy on the track, compared to the real world, as the track appears almost "half a foot" too narrow in gauge.

 

("Anoraks are us"!)

Yes, then I was right. OO scale is smaller than 1/72nd, as I said. HO scale, par contre, is about 1/86th and thus the trains look right on OO gauge track. As a boy I had Trix trains which were, I think, HO though they were sold as OO.

 

Alan, it's a bit warm for anoraks today...

[Jerra]

But that would be the same of I'd asked for half a litre of beer of half a kilogram of mince, so I can't see that it affects the imperial v. metric discussion at all.

Only a reply to Athy suggesting asking for 40 gallons and getting 200 L was acceptable. Which it isn't on a whole number of levels but true nothing to do with metric v imperial.

 

You I take it have never been part of thread drift.

Actually, I believe that technically it is: if you ask for a pound or a pint, that is what you should legally be sold. That said, I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted for giving long (as opposed to short) measure.

It is technically as you say illegal. I suspect the reason nobody has been prosecuted is that nobody is daft enough to make a serious complaint about being given too much.

 

Which is why the inspector I mentioned merely pointed out the fact to the landlord.

Edited to add a link in my last post, I can't see anything....

 

I've often wondered how accurate our local scrap metal merchants scales are

Unless things have changed they will be accurate as they used to be checked regularly by weights and measures. I assume this still happens. When we had the jewellers if we had scales which were to be used for the public e.g. to weigh gold going for scrap so we can pay them they had to be certified.

[Athy]

 

 

You I take it have never been part of thread drift.

 

Oh yes. It drifted several inches off course.

[dor]

Actually, I believe that technically it is: if you ask for a pound or a pint, that is what you should legally be sold. That said, I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted for giving long (as opposed to short) measure.

 

It certainly was at one time, which is why a half pint beer bottle didn't give the contents as "half a pint" but as "minimum contents 9 2/3 fl. oz.". I think this is generally superseded by that slightly odd 'e' next to the weight, which means the packer has passed examination and the actual weight or volume given is an assessed average contents.

[Athy]

 

It certainly was at one time, which is why a half pint beer bottle didn't give the contents as "half a pint" but as "minimum contents 9 2/3 fl. oz.". I think this is generally superseded by that slightly odd 'e' next to the weight, which means the packer has passed examination and the actual weight or volume given is an assessed average contents.

Yes, it took me a while to realise, but the "e" stands for "estimated", doesn't it?

[David Mack]

Surely it's not illegal to give out more than a measured amount? Its fool hardy from a business perspective, but I can't possibly imagine its illegal?

 

 

Actually, I believe that technically it is: if you ask for a pound or a pint, that is what you should legally be sold. That said, I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted for giving long (as opposed to short) measure.

Surely it depends how much you are charged. If the landlord overfills your glass, but charges you the quoted price of a pint, that's fine. But if you ask the assistant on the cheese counter for a quarter pound of cheddar, but they cut off 6 oz, and then charge for the weight actually cut, that, arguably, is not.

[b0atman]

What about 1 litre of diesel at £1:16.9p how does weights and measures permit this overcharging those 0.1ps all add up

[mango]

It's certainly illegal to sell over-measures of alcohol, though I've not heard of prosecutions.

 

Local pubs seem keen to sell beer in 500 ml quantities, though I do ask for a top up.

[gazza]

 

 

Surely it depends how much you are charged. If the landlord overfills your glass, but charges you the quoted price of a pint, that's fine. But if you ask the assistant on the cheese counter for a quarter pound of cheddar, but they cut off 6 oz, and then charge for the weight actually cut, that, arguably, is not.

 

Umm, i think that was given as read - we were talking about it being illegal to serve say a long pint but charge the normal 'standard unit' price

[BruceinSanity]

You may have missed the little ditties to help acquaint the population with the metric system in the 70s:

A metre measures three-foot three[/size]It's longer than a yard, you see[/size]Two-and-a-quarter pounds of jam[/size]Weigh about a kilogram[/size]and [/size]A litre of water's[/size]a pint-and-three-quarters[/size]

The chairman of the Metrication Board that came up with those was Lord Orr-Ewing, hence Bernard Levin's addition to the set:

 

I greatly fear that Lord Orr-Ewing

Does not know what the hell he's doing!

[Machpoint005]

What about 1 litre of diesel at £1:16.9p how does weights and measures permit this overcharging those 0.1ps all add up

 

I've thought for a long time that posting a price (for example) of £1.169 was ridiculous and it should be shown to the nearest whole penny (£1.17) by law. When I see a sign with 1.169 on it I read it as 1.17, but admittedly that can cause animated and time-wasting explanations!

It's certainly illegal to sell over-measures of alcohol, though I've not heard of prosecutions.

 

Local pubs seem keen to sell beer in 500 ml quantities, though I do ask for a top up.

 

There's a pub I use quite often where they tend to serve pints rather on the short side -- but last night I was given a free sample (half a glass) of a new beer, so I'm not complaining...

[dor]

What about 1 litre of diesel at £1:16.9p how does weights and measures permit this overcharging those 0.1ps all add up

 

But you are not overcharged - unless you only buy one or two litres. If you buy 10 litres, you would be charged £11.69p - no overcharging at all. How many of us buy less than 10 litres at a time?

Yes, it took me a while to realise, but the "e" stands for "estimated", doesn't it?

 

I thought the 'e' referred to it being a European thing. It is not estimated but an average over a large number of units.

[Athy]

How many of us buy less than 10 litres at a time?

 

 

Perhaps people who buy on price, not quantity, as seems to be more common nowadays. My old Dad always bought four gallons each time he went to the garage, whereas nowadays far more people (especially younger drivers with less money) put in £5 worth or £10 worth, which would be less than 10 litres at current prices

 

I thought the 'e' referred to it being a European thing. It is not estimated but an average over a large number of units.

I used to think so, but what would be the connection with Europe? And why would "e" be an abbreviation for "average"? Shrewd shoppers can get good value from goods with the "e" mark: I recently found that a batch of supermarket chickens, all at the same price and all marked "1.4 kg e", varied in weight by a full six ounces!