The Mudie Mod

[The Lockie]

A question specifically for owners of Hudson boats.

 

I'm trying to find out how much difference the Music mod makes to the heavy tillers on these boats.

 

I've never steered a Hudson with this modification so have no idea.

 

Can anyone who has tell me if it makes a great deal of difference and a rough idea of the cost??

 

Bit of an obscure request I know but that's what the forum does best:-) :-)

[ditchcrawler]

A question specifically for owners of Hudson boats.

 

I'm trying to find out how much difference the Music mod makes to the heavy tillers on these boats.

 

I've never steered a Hudson with this modification so have no idea.

 

Can anyone who has tell me if it makes a great deal of difference and a rough idea of the cost??

 

Bit of an obscure request I know but that's what the forum does best:-) :-)

Well following your other Hudson post I looked this up and dont understand it

[nicknorman]

Well following your other Hudson post I looked this up and dont understand it

 

Judging by the tumbleweed since May 12th, neither did anyone else!

[The Lockie]

Time to explain myself more fully.

 

I vaguely remember in the late 90's having a conversation regarding Hudson boats. I was told about the "Mudie Mod" by a Hudson owner, his wife loved the boat but couldn't handle the tiller when a few revs on. (I agree the boats handle well but not if you are a lady of small stature!!)

 

He told me that there was a means of altering the rudder that made them easier to handle. This mod was conceived by a chap called Mudie. I think this was the same Mr Mudie that was involved with ABNB Brokerage but cannot be sure.

 

The modification involved if I remember correctly, an additional plate to the inboard side of the rudder that slightly altered the balance and thereby made it easier to push the tiller under higher revs.

 

I'm sure I have in the past seem this mentioned in the occasional broker ads from ABNB I am a bit woolly on the details as I have made many circuits of the goldfish bowl since then.

 

Just thought if I posed the question on the forum someone would either have this mod or remember more about it than I can. Seem like I have drawn a blank though.

 

Perhaps this will bump the thread up and someone will have knowledge. Nick can't you get the butler on the job?? They are renowned for their resourcefulness :-) :-)

[RLWP]

So he altered the rudder balance - that's a pretty common kind of modification

 

Isn't there a thread about rudder balance running at the moment?

 

Richard

[dmr]

We are gong up the Shroppie right now and today went past what looked like a Hudson on hardstanding.

The rudder did look very long to me, with a large area after the post, (though it might have been an illusion), so I am not surprised that the steering is heavy. There did not look like any space to increase the area forward of the post and I guess reducing the area after the post would compromise the handling.

Gillie struggles with our boat (a humble ColeCraft) at full revs, and I find it hard work. Can you try to develop a boating style that does not need too much steering at full revs? I find our steering is only really heavy when the boat is moving quickly (or in reverse) so for tight corners I just slow right down then use loads of revs at a very low boat speed.

 

............Dave

[nicknorman]

We are gong up the Shroppie right now and today went past what looked like a Hudson on hardstanding.

The rudder did look very long to me, with a large area after the post, (though it might have been an illusion), so I am not surprised that the steering is heavy. There did not look like any space to increase the area forward of the post and I guess reducing the area after the post would compromise the handling.

Hudson rudder courtesy of Ecky Thump.

 

 

 

No prop obviously, but I think there might be some room to add some area in front of the pivot. However IMO it is rarely necessary to manoeuvre with a lot of power on and thus the rudder forces are not that high in practice. But yes, put a Beta 43 onto full throttle and large rudder movements will be difficult, but why would you want to do that?

Edited June 4, 2015 by nicknorman

[RLWP]

Because you can?

 

Richard

[The Lockie]

We are not talking a heavy rudder on full revs. How often does that happen. They are difficult for the ladies at low revs. That's the point of asking about the mod. My mates wife struggles with their 62' with the jp3 on anything over Rickover. Its not the straight line she has a problem with its sharp bends and getting out of they way sharpish when presented with the occasional pillock

[alan_fincher]

Hudson rudder courtesy of Ecky Thump.

 

 

 

No prop obviously, but I think there might be some room to add some area in front of the pivot. However IMO it is rarely necessary to manoeuvre with a lot of power on and thus the rudder forces are not that high in practice. But yes, put a Beta 43 onto full throttle and large rudder movements will be difficult, but why would you want to do that?

 

If that is a typical Hudson rudder, it looks to my untrained eye to be a pretty sensible design, with a sensible amount of balanace, and not, I would have though overly large.

 

It is probably significantly more substantial than some "Clonecraft", but not as big and heavy as a working boat rudder. Much what I would expect given that Hudsons are fairly heavy and deep draughted boats, but that said, I would not expect that type of boat to ever have particularly light steering.

 

As an aside, with a heavy rudder and a heavily raked rudder post like that has, some effort would need to be expended just to swing the tiller away from "straight ahead", even if no engine power was on, and the boat was not moving. This is because as you swing the rudder, it is actually rising up, and you are therefore raising its centre of gravity, (let go of the tiller, and I'm guessing it will swing back to "straight ahead"). The amount of effort expended to cause the rudder to raise is probably small though, and I suspect not enough to add any significant amount to the heavy steering.

[nicknorman]

If that is a typical Hudson rudder, it looks to my untrained eye to be a pretty sensible design, with a sensible amount of balanace, and not, I would have though overly large.

It is probably significantly more substantial than some "Clonecraft", but not as big and heavy as a working boat rudder. Much what I would expect given that Hudsons are fairly heavy and deep draughted boats, but that said, I would not expect that type of boat to ever have particularly light steering.

 

As an aside, with a heavy rudder and a heavily raked rudder post like that has, some effort would need to be expended just to swing the tiller away from "straight ahead", even if no engine power was on, and the boat was not moving. This is because as you swing the rudder, it is actually rising up, and you are therefore raising its centre of gravity, (let go of the tiller, and I'm guessing it will swing back to "straight ahead"). The amount of effort expended to cause the rudder to raise is probably small though, and I suspect not enough to add any significant amount to the heavy steering.

As far as I know all Hudson rudders are the same. Yes a small amount of force is required to deflect the rudder when stationary for the reasons you give. It is just about enough to cause the rudder to more or less self-centre when you let go of it.

 

Looking at the slope on the forward section. If there were a desire to increase the balance it would seem reasonable to me to add plate area so as to make the leading edge vertical ie parallel to the propellor's tip path plane. That way there would be no reduction in the minimum distance between prop and rudder.

 

Putting it in context and presuming all Heywood/Evans' boats have the same rudder (ie Chalice and the boat we formerly used), the forces on a Hudson tiller are considerably higher but then again so is the effectiveness of the steering and the tendency to go straight ahead rather than a desire to seek out the bank. I have previously described the Hudson rudder as a "man's rudder" but suppose I have to concede that a sex change is a bit of an extreme requirement for a female operator! Perhaps as a halfway house a diet of pork pies could be considered?

 

Edit: on a more serious note it is also worth mentioning that the top bearing is a plain one. One needs to put a bit of oil down from time to time, to prevent a built up of rust etc that can considerably increase the force required. Perhaps the OP's friend's boat had not had this maintenance action done regularly?

Edited June 5, 2015 by nicknorman

[PeterG]

I have been told that one way to make the tiller feel lighter is to slice off the bottom trailing corner as this reduces the weight of lifting due to the raked rudder post but does not greatly change the flow.

 

However I have never physically seen this and hence it may have been created by an over fertile mind.

[ditchcrawler]

What we need is to see an ex Challenger share boat out of the water, I think Arthur was a Hudson boat if I remember correctly.

Edited June 5, 2015 by ditchcrawler

[cuthound]

What we need is to see an ex Challenger stare boat out of the water, I think Arthur was a Hudson boat if I remember correctly.

Don't ex-Challenger boats know its rude to stare?