I find myself in the unusual position

[gazza]

Oh how you do like to gloat, but what about answering the questions.

I doubt you could have got this boat as far as I have, oh unless you paid someone to do it.

Of course you could prove me wrong by naming all the historic boats you have worked on.

Regards kris

Kris

 

Its not a willy waving competition.

 

The discussion is based on why you are now in the enforcement process and how to extract yourself from the potential of loosing your boat.

 

While commendable that you are attempting to save this boat, without a home mooring or better hard standing to complete the project you may well find your had work is all for nothing.

 

Completely apropos nothing but what condition is the hull in?

Edited April 15, 2015 by gazza

[nicknorman]

An example.

 

I travelled the Rochdale canal 3yrs back.....over the summit....I'd guess the number of boats on that canal are minimal...(hard locks, no water). It's common sense to leave those boaters alone to their own devices.......rather than try and enforce the same rules which might be valid in sorting out the London hotspot or K&A.

 

An EO on the Rochdale might be a jobsworth and become a real pain...implementing "the rules", but it would be unnecessary.......

 

so yes, I think common sense should prevail, based on local conditions....and if that meant different T&Cs per canal or area....so be it ;-)

No, I think what you mean is that the law and rules shouldn't apply to you. I could try to use a similar justification for being caught speeding on a remote road miles from anywhere or anyone, but I doubt it would get me off.

[kris88]

I would suggest there are more useful things to spend CRT's money on than persuing someone who is actually getting there boat fixed.

People don't seem to realise the reality of living on a muddy towpath in winter, and how this effects the amount of work you can get done.

But then I suppose it's because the people making the comments don't have experience of this.

Regards kris

[bassplayer]

 

Why would they need to come and have a look?

 

 

You don't appear to have a single example of a sensible rule that you think CRT should apply.

 

CRT listened to Kris, and have given him a lot of leeway. He has now reached the end of that road.

In answer to your first question. Maybe it helps when you get out of your armchair and meet peolle face to face. It works for Mr Parry so why not the enforcement team?

 

I've already said what I currently think about Kris's situation. I've already given examples of the rules which I feel aren't sensible so it's fair to assume I don't have a problem with the remainder. I've also suggested that Dean's idea is a sensible approach for allowing slack to people trying to preserve historic boats. Are you keeping up?

[gazza]

 

 

An example.

 

I travelled the Rochdale canal 3yrs back.....over the summit....I'd guess the number of boats on that canal are minimal...(hard locks, no water). It's common sense to leave those boaters alone to their own devices.......rather than try and enforce the same rules which might be valid in sorting out the London hotspot or K&A.

 

An EO on the Rochdale might be a jobsworth and become a real pain...implementing "the rules", but it would be unnecessary.......

 

so yes, I think common sense should prevail, based on local conditions....and if that meant different T&Cs per canal or area....so be it ;-)

Its grim up north :-)

 

So I guess you are saying you lot up north subsidies the south. That makes a change! :-)

[nicknorman]

I would suggest there are more useful things to spend CRT's money on than persuing someone who is actually getting there boat fixed.

People don't seem to realise the reality of living on a muddy towpath in winter, and how this effects the amount of work you can get done.

But then I suppose it's because the people making the comments don't have experience of this.

Regards kris

Certainly undertaking the job you have, on a muddy towpath in winter, is far from an ideal location as has repeatedly been said. But was it winter when you first broke down last JULY?

[Murflynn]

I have travelled extensively on the Thames and the Warwickshire Avon, as well as some parts of the CRT system, and am shocked at the number of semi-sunk, derelict and junkyard boats 'moored' in out of the way places. If CRT implemented Dean's suggestion, the owners of most of these would suddenly decide that they are repairing their boats, and become legalised with a free mooring thrown in.

 

"Historic" or otherwise, this would just be another loophole for the opportunistic chancer brigade.

[bassplayer]

I would suggest there are more useful things to spend CRT's money on than persuing someone who is actually getting there boat fixed.

People don't seem to realise the reality of living on a muddy towpath in winter, and how this effects the amount of work you can get done.

But then I suppose it's because the people making the comments don't have experience of this.

Regards kris

This is what I believe is the problem with the modern life where peole think they can control things from a computer screen...oops...I think that was a hypocritical blunder on my part...

I have travelled extensively on the Thames and the Warwickshire Avon, as well as some parts of the CRT system, and am shocked at the number of semi-sunk, derelict and junkyard boats 'moored' in out of the way places. If CRT implemented Dean's suggestion, the owners of most of these would suddenly decide that they are repairing their boats, and become legalised with a free mooring thrown in.

 

"Historic" or otherwise, this would just be another loophole for the opportunistic chancer brigade.

Dare I suggest a time limit on any concession like this?

[kris88]

If you had read the thread nick, that I didn't initiainally plan to replace the prop shaft, prop and bearings. But upon inspection it became apparent it would need doing. I also didn't have the finances in July, so had to earn some money as we'll. I think I have done well in 9 months over winter my self. But people seem happy for CRT to use there money in scrapping historic vessels. I know they haven't got a good reputation for looking after old boats.

Anyway have got to get on, do some more work on my boat. Enjoy yourselves when I'm away.

Regards kris

[mayalld]

I would suggest there are more useful things to spend CRT's money on than persuing someone who is actually getting there boat fixed.

People don't seem to realise the reality of living on a muddy towpath in winter, and how this effects the amount of work you can get done.

But then I suppose it's because the people making the comments don't have experience of this.

Regards kris

 

Then perhaps you should have taken a mooring where you could have more effectively repaired the boat.

 

You seem to have gone out of your way to make life difficult for yourself, and to now imagine that as a result CRT should cut you even more slack.

[bassplayer]

 

Which boating organisations actually represent us?

Good question..I still haven't joined one yet!

[mayalld]

This is what I believe is the problem with the modern life where peole think they can control things from a computer screen...oops...I think that was a hypocritical blunder on my part...

 

Dare I suggest a time limit on any concession like this?

 

Yes.

 

Let's say 6 months

[kris88]

How many times there are no local moorings available. I wish people would read what I write about my situation. Rather than just reading what they want.

[Alan de Enfield]

I would suggest there are more useful things to spend CRT's money on than persuing someone who is actually getting there boat fixed.

People don't seem to realise the reality of living on a muddy towpath in winter, and how this effects the amount of work you can get done.

But then I suppose it's because the people making the comments don't have experience of this.

Regards kris

 

I think anyone can accept that trying to repair a boat on the towpath is not 'easy' - breaking down for the want of a 'nail' and having to walk miles to find a DIY shop is 'bad-enough'.

 

The answer is don't do it.

If, in July, you had taken a mooring or hardstanding you could probably have had it fixed before Winter.

If (as you state) you could not afford repairs and a mooring, having a mooring, and no enforcement stress, could have allowed you to work and earn some extra cash.

 

You have not complied with your licence conditions

You have broken the Law

 

Accept it, get over it and get on with your life.

[DeanS]

No, I think what you mean is that the law and rules shouldn't apply to you. I could try to use a similar justification for being caught speeding on a remote road miles from anywhere or anyone, but I doubt it would get me off.

 

1. My suggestion doesn't apply to me, because I can't/dont/wont travel up the Rochdale.

2. Speeding is dangerous. Mooring on a towpath away from all hotspots, is harmless.

 

See...common sense....is what's needed. You've proved the point exactly, by using corporate speak to roll out a general "guideline" based on some mythological concept, instead of looking at the reality of it. ;-)

[Sabcat]

To my mind there's only one question that needs to be answered - Are you in anyone's way?

 

If the answer is yes then you need to move. If the answer is no then I can't see a problem with you staying where you are until the boat is fixed be that in 6 months or 2 years. What's the problem?

 

I suppose someone will be along to say "what if everyone gets to fix their boats on the towpath?" yeah, so what if they do?

[DeanS]

To my mind there's only one question that needs to be answered - Are you in anyone's way?

 

If the answer is yes then you need to move. If the answer is no then I can't see a problem with you staying where you are until the boat is fixed be that in 6 months or 2 years. What's the problem?

 

I suppose someone will be along to say "what if everyone gets to fix their boats on the towpath?" yeah, so what if they do?

 

egg sack ly

[bassplayer]

How many times there are no local moorings available. I wish people would read what I write about my situation. Rather than just reading what they want.

Our of curiosity Kris, is the problem of not being able to find an available local mooring the argument you might intend to use in court to address the 'reasonable' bit?

[adam1uk]

I suppose that will be for a judge to decide, not arm chair lawyers. I'd be interested to know how many people who have commented in this thread, have actually worked on historic boats. So understand what is involved, rather than just talking of there heads.

Regards kris

 

Whether it's a historic boat or not has nothing to do with it. The question is where it's reasonable to spend nine months working on a boat -- of any age. Banging on about a historic boat is a red herring.

 

Starman of this forum spent a long time turning a burned out wreck into a very nice boat, doing all the work himself -- but he did it moored at a boat yard, not on the towpath. That would have been a better option for you.

[gazza]

How many times there are no local moorings available. I wish people would read what I write about my situation. Rather than just reading what they want.

Tuff then, move it to a boatyard or marina. if you can't afford that sell it and get a flat.

 

Its your choice to live on the towpath, no one else's - especially not C&RT, you've broken the terms of your agreement with them, and on the face of it sounds like another old boat going to boat heaven if you keep your blinkered mind set up.

[DeanS]

Our of curiosity Kris, is the problem of not being able to find an available local mooring the argument you might intend to use in court to address the 'reasonable' bit?

 

When he get's to court, won't it be for having no licence? (after CRT has decided not to give him a new one...at which point he's supposed to get an injunction, based on having a BSS...insurance...)

[bassplayer]

 

When he get's to court, won't it be for having no licence? (after CRT has decided not to give him a new one...at which point he's supposed to get an injunction, based on having a BSS...insurance...)

I thought CRT said they won't make you homeless without a court hearing first, Mind you that is only if THEY reasonably believe you are actually living in it. The bottom line is they will do what they want, then you have to take them to court to put the wrong right (if it is found to be wrong in court of course).

[Alan de Enfield]

 

Yes.

 

Let's say 6 months

 

Maybe the subject is already covered in Law :

 

"...........(ii) references to the condition of a vessel include references to the condition of the engines, appliances, fittings and equipment thereof....."

 

"...........© requiring the owner of the vessel to remedy the defects by a date (which shall be not less than three months from the date of the notice) and to notify the Board in writing within that period of the steps taken to remedy the defects....."

 

"..........(ii) fails to move the vessel if so required by the notice; shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £1,000....."

 

".........(6) (a) If on the expiry of the period specified under paragraph © of subsection (3) of this section the vessel is still on any inland waterway or on any reservoir owned or managed by the Board and it appears to the Board that the defects specified in the notice, or any of them, have not been remedied, or that adequate arrangements for their being remedied have not been made and are unlikely to be made within a reasonable time, the Board may give to the owner 21 days' notice that, on the expiry of the notice, they propose to deal with the vessel as a craft which is left on an inland waterway without lawful authority under section 8 (Removal of vessels) of this Act......"

[Naughty Cal]

Oh how you do like to gloat, but what about answering the questions.

I doubt you could have got this boat as far as I have, oh unless you paid someone to do it.

Of course you could prove me wrong by naming all the historic boats you have worked on.

Regards kris

Oh your a legal expert now as we'll

Wheres that then, engine less, propulsion less and in danger of being removed from the waterways by the licencing authority?

 

If you actually spent any time reading any of our posts over the winter months rather then just ranting about CRT, you would have seen that we have done a hell of a lot of work to our own boat this year. It was also rendered propulsionless at one point. We didn't however leave it moored to the towpath for the duration, we paid for storage ashore.

 

You seem blinkered to the fact that you are very much in the wrong here. I sincerely hope that you open your eyes sometime soon because if this case goes to court there will only ever be one result and it won't be in your favour. No doubt we will then be getting the sob story and hearing how nasty CRT are.

 

Grow a pair, man up, accept you are wrong and move forward.

 

Maybe the subject is already covered in Law :

 

"...........(ii) references to the condition of a vessel include references to the condition of the engines, appliances, fittings and equipment thereof....."

 

"...........© requiring the owner of the vessel to remedy the defects by a date (which shall be not less than three months from the date of the notice) and to notify the Board in writing within that period of the steps taken to remedy the defects....."

 

"..........(ii) fails to move the vessel if so required by the notice; shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £1,000....."

 

".........(6) (a) If on the expiry of the period specified under paragraph © of subsection (3) of this section the vessel is still on any inland waterway or on any reservoir owned or managed by the Board and it appears to the Board that the defects specified in the notice, or any of them, have not been remedied, or that adequate arrangements for their being remedied have not been made and are unlikely to be made within a reasonable time, the Board may give to the owner 21 days' notice that, on the expiry of the notice, they propose to deal with the vessel as a craft which is left on an inland waterway without lawful authority under section 8 (Removal of vessels) of this Act......"

No doubt Kris will still think he complies with this as well

[bassplayer]

 

Maybe the subject is already covered in Law :

 

"...........(ii) references to the condition of a vessel include references to the condition of the engines, appliances, fittings and equipment thereof....."

 

"...........© requiring the owner of the vessel to remedy the defects by a date (which shall be not less than three months from the date of the notice) and to notify the Board in writing within that period of the steps taken to remedy the defects....."

 

"..........(ii) fails to move the vessel if so required by the notice; shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £1,000....."

 

".........(6) (a) If on the expiry of the period specified under paragraph © of subsection (3) of this section the vessel is still on any inland waterway or on any reservoir owned or managed by the Board and it appears to the Board that the defects specified in the notice, or any of them, have not been remedied, or that adequate arrangements for their being remedied have not been made and are unlikely to be made within a reasonable time, the Board may give to the owner 21 days' notice that, on the expiry of the notice, they propose to deal with the vessel as a craft which is left on an inland waterway without lawful authority under section 8 (Removal of vessels) of this Act......"

 

No reason why CRT can't cut more slack to those restoring a historic boat though, especially as Kris has tried to find a suitable mooring but one isn't available in the area. I'm not feeling very comfortable about this in my armchair though...