Made it home

[MtB]

Yes. However if your gas locker only held 2.7kg camping Gaz bottles at £30 a pop would you heat water and the kettle with it?

 

As it happens it will be the kettle that gets most use. Seems daft boiling the gas kettle when the engine is running, creating electric which in most cases is going to waste as the batteries are rarely deeply discharged.

 

 

 

Not true. You have a lot to learn about technical stuff NC!

[Naughty Cal]

 

 

Not true. You have a lot to learn about technical stuff NC!

Well if it ain't going into the batteries or keeping the big green lump running where's it going?

 

We have never seen the alternator producing anything like it's rated output. May as well give it some work to do.

[MtB]

It isn't 'going' anywhere. it isn't being generated in the first place when there is no electrical load.

 

You need to have a careful think about what you mean by 'it', exactly.

When you switch the kettle ON, the alternator will start delivering the current and your diesel consumption will leap while the kettle is ON. You'll probably notice the engine speed dip momentarily as the load is taken up and the engine governor responds to increase the fueling.

[Naughty Cal]

It isn't 'going' anywhere. it isn't being generated in the first place when there is no electrical load.

 

You need to have a careful think about what you mean by 'it', exactly.

 

When you switch the kettle ON, the alternator will start delivering the current and your diesel consumption will leap while the kettle is ON. You'll probably notice the engine speed dip momentarily as the load is taken up and the engine governor responds to increase the fueling.

I don't believe that will worry the lazy lump in the slightest.

 

Again giving it more work to do whilst dawdling along on the river can only be a good thing.

 

A slight increase in fuel consumption isn't really the end of the world either in the grand scheme of things.

[serenility]

Forget £300, £150 will buy you all the inverter you'll need. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-Silverstorm-444658-Inverter-2000W/dp/B002QRWHBK

 

Of course you'll need to fit it and install wiring.

From the blurb, it sounds like it is electrically two separate 1Kw inverters which could pose a problem if you want to run one 2Kw load.

'course I may be completely wrong.

[Paul C]

I don't believe that will worry the lazy lump in the slightest.

 

Again giving it more work to do whilst dawdling along on the river can only be a good thing.

 

A slight increase in fuel consumption isn't really the end of the world either in the grand scheme of things.

 

Engines don't "worry" though, they're inanimate objects etc. It will, however, require more fuel to do so. It will ask for more fuel, and get given it by the governor (yours is a diesel, right)?

 

If you're dawdling along rivers and using a small fraction of the available power, then there's an argument to be said that more load is better for an engine, (bore glazing etc) but its a weak argument.

 

The increase in fuel consumption will be slight, but will exist (energy balance) and given the efficiency of the conversion from diesel to rotation to electrical 12V to electrical 230V to heat, I think if you did the sums, even factoring in a small gas bottle size, you'd be surprised at the outcome!

 

(There's a case to be made for electric kettle in summertime on a boat with adequate solar panels).

[notts_alan]

The sterlings can also have a remote panel for operation , have a quick look on e bay at sterling panels and see if any look familiar to any panels you have fitted onboard , I would not have thought it would be hidden .

[Machpoint005]

It isn't 'going' anywhere. it isn't being generated in the first place when there is no electrical load.

 

You need to have a careful think about what you mean by 'it', exactly.

When you switch the kettle ON, the alternator will start delivering the current and your diesel consumption will leap while the kettle is ON. You'll probably notice the engine speed dip momentarily as the load is taken up and the engine governor responds to increase the fueling.

 

Can the first sentence be reproduced in bold or capital letters (preferably both) and pinned somewhere? There is so much nonsense spouted about where energy comes from, and goes ...

 

(rant over, and I'm not having a dig at you, Rachel).

[Naughty Cal]

Ok. We are using a Volvo Penta 2.4 litre engine rated at 170hp whilst on the river at 700rpm max, and that's pushing it and making waves.

 

The little extra load isn't going to bother it in the slightest!

 

If anything it will aid it.

 

At full chat I'm not going downstairs to boil The kettle!

[kris88]

See you managed to hijack the thread have an argument and scare the op off.

Oh we'll par for the course I reckon.

Regards kris

[Paul C]

Ok. We are using a Volvo Penta 2.4 litre engine rated at 170hp whilst on the river at 700rpm max, and that's pushing it and making waves.

 

The little extra load isn't going to bother it in the slightest!

 

If anything it will aid it.

 

At full chat I'm not going downstairs to boil The kettle!

 

I think this post illustrates that you have a poor understanding of how much energy is being produced by the engine, and where its going (it doesn't reappear and vanish, it changes form for example chemical --> heat --> mechanical --> electrical etc).

 

For example, when your engine is idling, what power does it generate (because its not 170bhp!)

 

When your engine is idling and you turn the kettle on, what power does it generate?

[MtB]

Ok. We are using a Volvo Penta 2.4 litre engine rated at 170hp whilst on the river at 700rpm max, and that's pushing it and making waves.

 

The little extra load isn't going to bother it in the slightest!

 

If anything it will aid it.

 

At full chat I'm not going downstairs to boil The kettle!

 

Yes that's all very well but it was this twaddle you initially spouted that needed challenging:

 

"As it happens it will be the kettle that gets most use. Seems daft boiling the gas kettle when the engine is running, creating electric which in most cases is going to waste as the batteries are rarely deeply discharged."

 

Which simply isn't true, and needed pointing out or newbies like the OP might begin to believe it.

 

 

MtB

 

 

 

 

(Missing worm edit!)

Edited March 8, 2015 by Mike the Boilerman

[Timleech]

Engines don't "worry" though, they're inanimate objects etc. It will, however, require more fuel to do so. It will ask for more fuel, and get given it by the governor (yours is a diesel, right)?

 

If you're dawdling along rivers and using a small fraction of the available power, then there's an argument to be said that more load is better for an engine, (bore glazing etc) but its a weak argument.

 

The increase in fuel consumption will be slight, but will exist (energy balance) and given the efficiency of the conversion from diesel to rotation to electrical 12V to electrical 230V to heat, I think if you did the sums, even factoring in a small gas bottle size, you'd be surprised at the outcome!

 

(There's a case to be made for electric kettle in summertime on a boat with adequate solar panels).

We use an electric kettle, and a microwave with grill, simply because there is nowhere on the boat to put a gas locker without getting in the way and/or spoiling the external profile.

 

We have 2 x 170Ah batteries, at least 7 years old, and 2 x 60A/24V alternators. The alternators will nicely match the kettle drain if running above tickover. We can boil at least one kettle in the evening and another in the morning without taking the batteries anwhere near to 50% charge. Have to be a bit careful and watch the meter if using the microwave in the evening as well.

 

Other cooking arrangements consist of a paraffin cooker.

 

Works for us.

 

So does our hydraulic drive on a Gardner, Mike

 

Tim

[Paul C]

We use an electric kettle, and a microwave with grill, simply because there is nowhere on the boat to put a gas locker without getting in the way and/or spoiling the external profile.

 

We have 2 x 170Ah batteries, at least 7 years old, and 2 x 60A/24V alternators. The alternators will nicely match the kettle drain if running above tickover. We can boil at least one kettle in the evening and another in the morning without taking the batteries anwhere near to 50% charge. Have to be a bit careful and watch the meter if using the microwave in the evening as well.

 

Other cooking arrangements consist of a paraffin cooker.

 

Works for us.

 

So does our hydraulic drive on a Gardner, Mike

 

Tim

Not having a gas bottle locker is a pretty good reason for not having a gas cooker!

[Dave_P]

From the blurb, it sounds like it is electrically two separate 1Kw inverters which could pose a problem if you want to run one 2Kw load.

'course I may be completely wrong.

it runs things of mine which are 1600w

[Timleech]

it runs things of mine which are 1600w

 

I think it's fairly common for higher ratings of inverter to have two (maybe sometimes more?) inverters in the same box.

There must be some sort of control circuitry to keep the outputs in phase with one another.

 

Tim

[Naughty Cal]

 

I think this post illustrates that you have a poor understanding of how much energy is being produced by the engine, and where its going (it doesn't reappear and vanish, it changes form for example chemical --> heat --> mechanical --> electrical etc).

 

For example, when your engine is idling, what power does it generate (because its not 170bhp!)

 

When your engine is idling and you turn the kettle on, what power does it generate?

Can't remember which topic it was on now but it was estimated that on the river it would be producing in the region of 75hp.

 

The alternator is rated at 75 amps although I couldn't tell you what revs it would be producing that at. Only on the odd occasions we have run the batteries down to anything like 50% SOC have we seen the ammeter registering inputs of 30-40 amps at river speeds before gradually tailing off. More normally it is putting out between 5-10 amps as we don't tend to drain the batteries too much.

 

I can't tell you what power it is producing when idling with the kettle on as we have only just fitted the inverter and have only tried it whilst on our berth to check it was all working as it should.

 

It boiled our 1kw kettle easily enough but we won't get the chance to try it out properly until next weekend when we are out cruising again.

[FidoDido]

Pennie

 

One thing that hasn't been said.. If you intend to run modern electronics like laptop, TV (even washing machine) etc, make sure you get a pure sine wave inverter, not a modified sine wave inverter. The latter will reduce the life expectancy of any power supply of such items, or they may not even work at all. Pure sine wave inverters are more expensive, but replacing power supplies is also expensive. Like others have said, may be better to get 12v chargers or power supplies for those items. Can then get a cheap inverter for things like vacuum cleaner... Or even wait to find a leccy hookup in a marina for doing such things. Or buy a Kipor of honda portable generator and plug it in for the occasional times you use high power 240v things. I got a 1kw kipor for a couple of hundred quid second hand.

[Pennie]

Don't worry wasnt scared off just dont have reliable internet access atm. I found the discussion interesting and informative anyway, thank you.

 

I'm sure the guy fitting my solar panels next month will set me up with what i need. I'm off into town today so i shall look for a car socket adapter for the mean time.

[ditchy]

Saw u pass me at zouch today. Very nice boat. If I pass u in the week and moor nearby u can charge your stuff on my boat. (If you don't think that doesn't sound wierd)

[mrsmelly]

Best thing I ever did was go 100% 12v no need for inverter and batteries last much longer

 

This is very good advice.

 

Tim