Canal and River Trust changes in Licence Terms and conditions

[bassplayer]

I guess this has kept a lot of people busy and again to me shows that CRT are more interested in rules and regulations than looking after the infrastructure.

It is a shame that they give no reason for some of these changes other than a perceived problem dreamt up by a lot of people sitting in meeting rooms in Milton Keynes. Who cares how far a boater with a home mooring moves? What difference is it going to make to my boating experience or enjoyment? I am sorry but I think we have an organisation running the canals that just want to make it as awkward as possible to boat. This is all crazy and smacks of change for the sake of change by an organisation not fit for purpose

The effect of the 'tinkering department'

[cotswoldsman]

The effect of the 'tinkering department'

Hehe yes on a massive scale

[bassplayer]

Hehe yes on a massive scale

The'll be a few G&T's going down tonight...

[madcat]

Not impressed , all not needed and pointless . Thanks moaning troublemaking shiney whiney boaters who caused all this lot. CRT should be getting on with looking after the system not pandering to the Snobby Lobby.

Edited January 30, 2015 by madcat

[TheBiscuits]

Never mind all the Constant Moorers (especially those in the IWA!), how dare CRT let us all have a tender not just the river only licence holders.

 

The sheer nerve of letting us have a 3 metre powered or unpowered boat towed behind our 8 metre boat for no extra charge. That's over 1/3rd extra free. Shocking.

[Pete & Helen]

I cant see any clarity for boater only more enforcement and jurisdiction for CRT

 

Is it another money spinner for the licence? If I sell my boat in the middle of the month, will I get back only a rebate on the full unused months and then the new owner has to pay from the beginning of the month its sold in (as you have to pay for a full month when part way through). In effect CRT gain an extra months licence fee. (even more if you cant transfer your licence from one boat to your new one.

 

Still no clarity if you have a home mooring and movements when away, only you cant stay longer than the mooring restriction, so could I be 100 miles away and just cruise up and down the same stretch of canal?

[David Mack]

No 3 month license for CCers? What if a EA boat wanted to visit Cart waters for more than a month? Buy 3x1 month visitor permits seems expensive!

 

It dioesn't say no 3 month licence for CCers. What it says is "If you are a Continuous Cruiser a Licence for 3 months is no longer available to most boaters and will only be issued by us in exceptional circumstances."

 

So firstly, if there are exceptional circumstances a CCer can still apply for a 3 month licence.

 

Secondly, the whole concept of Continuous Cruising only applies on CRT waterways. To my knowledge no other navigation authority licencese boats as CCers. So a boat visiting from another waterway will have a home mooring on a non-CRT waterway, which can be declared to CRT when applying for a Boat-with-a-home-mooring 3 month licence.

[Alf Roberts]

I guess this has kept a lot of people busy and again to me shows that CRT are more interested in rules and regulations than looking after the infrastructure.

It is a shame that they give no reason for some of these changes other than a perceived problem dreamt up by a lot of people sitting in meeting rooms in Milton Keynes. Who cares how far a boater with a home mooring moves? What difference is it going to make to my boating experience or enjoyment? I am sorry but I think we have an organisation running the canals that just want to make it as awkward as possible to boat. This is all crazy and smacks of change for the sake of change by an organisation not fit for purpose

OK.

 

That's enough.

 

what is the accountability ? is it judicial review ? Is this applicable?

 

or does one have to challenge Defra (how?) and then apply for judicial review?

[cotswoldsman]

ii)

-in particular we make it clear in clauses 7.8 to

7.10 that we may need to share information

about the boat or the boater with third parties

regarding any incident involving the boat, where

third parties ask about the licensing status of a

boat or where there is a breach of the conditions,

does this mean if a boat is reported without a license they will tell me about the owner and any enforcement process it's going through?-

This part allows CRT to subcontract out enforcement to a 3rd party security company. Stand bye for some agressive enforcement by bouncer type security people. Time to sell my boat I think and be grateful I had 7 years of great boating before this present management took over

[cotswoldsman]

OK.

That's enough.

what is the accountability ? is it judicial review ? Is this applicable?

or does one have to challenge Defra (how?) and then apply for judicial review?

Unfortunately Alf I do not at this stage have the answer but we seem to have an organisation that just see boaters as nuisance. There will be more rules and regulations to come and unfortunately it effects every boater now The days of boaters with a Home mooring just being able to go out during the summer and float around as they wish are coming to an end. It would appear there are going to be more no return rules and more £25 overstay charging should be some good bonus's for the private security companies

[john6767]

I cant see any clarity for boater only more enforcement and jurisdiction for CRT

 

Is it another money spinner for the licence? If I sell my boat in the middle of the month, will I get back only a rebate on the full unused months and then the new owner has to pay from the beginning of the month its sold in (as you have to pay for a full month when part way through). In effect CRT gain an extra months licence fee. (even more if you cant transfer your licence from one boat to your new one.

 

Still no clarity if you have a home mooring and movements when away, only you cant stay longer than the mooring restriction, so could I be 100 miles away and just cruise up and down the same stretch of canal?

In reading the changes relating to boats with a home mooring when away from that mooring, is there actually any real change, except the clarity that the 14 day rule does apply to boats with a home moring.

It does or seem to me to say anything that outlaws "bridge hopping" does it?

[cotswoldsman]

I just wish more people could see the bigger picture and what this is all building up to be prepared for paying out a lot more for your boating

In reading the changes relating to boats with a home mooring when away from that mooring, is there actually any real change, except the clarity that the 14 day rule does apply to boats with a home moring.

It does or seem to me to say anything that outlaws "bridge hopping" does it?

14 days in one place!!

[Neil2]

A couple of years ago I received a very terse letter from BW/CRT telling me in no uncertain terms to stop using my boat for commercial purposes.

 

This was a boat I had sold 6 months previously and I had, as instructed, returned the change of owner form.

 

I rang the customer services number and after a bit of prevaricating they admitted that yes they had received the form but the reason for the confusion was that they do not update ownership details until the new owner applies for a licence.

 

So what, I asked, was the point of sending in the change of owner form?

 

Silence.

 

"It does seem a little pointless doesn't it?" was the best they could do.

 

The change on transferable licences is basically CRT removing a job they don't actually do at the moment ie change owner details when they receive the relevant form. Owner details will continue to be updated, as now, when the licence changes, except now it should happen within a week or two of the boat actually changing hands.

[cotswoldsman]

 

The change on transferable licences is basically CRT removing a job they don't actually do at the moment ie change owner details when they receive the relevant form. Owner details will continue to be updated, as now, when the licence changes, except now it should happen within a week or two of the boat actually changing hands.

This change is most probably the only one that makes sense to me as a lot of boats on the system are sold with a home mooring licence but are purchased by people who have no home mooring and the sooner CRT are aware of this the more upto date their records will be

[john6767]

14 days in one place!!

I see that in the plain English section, but not in the actual Ts & Cs, and as such there is no definition of place. If there was intended to be a tangible change here then I would have expected the plain English interpretation to have spelled it out, and it does not. So if they intend that boats with a home mooring can not "bridge hop", that needs spelling out so we all know where we stand. Good news for marina operators it that is the case though!

[Guest]

Unfortunately Alf I do not at this stage have the answer but we seem to have an organisation that just see boaters as nuisance. There will be more rules and regulations to come and unfortunately it effects every boater now The days of boaters with a Home mooring just being able to go out during the summer and float around as they wish are coming to an end. It would appear there are going to be more no return rules and more £25 overstay charging should be some good bonus's for the private security companies

Sorry John but I think there is a degree of scaremongering happening here.

 

If I choose to leave our mooring this Easter and not return to it until the Autumn I am not going to be interested in pootling up and down the Aire & calder, I can easily do that within 14 days, it would be to explore the much wider waterways of the North and beyond.

 

This is what people do is it not?

 

If I only want to do a short cruise and do one often, as long as I return to my home mooring between I can then spend up to 14 days in one 'place' even if that involves small shuffles. (Subject to a lesser limit applying)

 

The only real implication I can see is the need to keep an up to date log which may be needed to demonstrate my compliance, which is what any sensible CCer does isn't it?

[Loafer]

Excuse my ignorance here, if indeed it is.

 

Hasn't the 14-day rule always applied, to any narrowboat, except to one that is on it's own mooring at the time?

[kris88]

This part allows CRT to subcontract out enforcement to a 3rd party security company. Stand bye for some agressive enforcement by bouncer type security people. Time to sell my boat I think and be grateful I had 7 years of great boating before this present management took over

Completely agree and on first reading I think this is the important bit of the changes. Do you think g4s or cerco will want the contract. They could tag us all while there at it.

Regards kris

[john6767]

Excuse my ignorance here, if indeed it is.

 

Hasn't the 14-day rule always applied, to any narrowboat, except to one that is on it's own mooring at the time?

I believe that the relevant act does not specifically state that it applies to a boat with a home mooring, although most people take it to apply to everyone. That was my point above really, that this just seems to be clarifying that fact.

If CRT are actually intending to put more restriction on this then the Ts & Cs need to be explicit in that, or else the point in changing them has failed. Hopefully CRT are reading this and taking note.

[Guest]

Excuse my ignorance here, if indeed it is.

 

Hasn't the 14-day rule always applied, to any narrowboat, except to one that is on it's own mooring at the time?

Yes.

[Peter Cruiser]

2.3 must comply with any local restrictions specified in signage which may include time limits. Meaning that now CRT can place mooring restrictions on any part of the canal system overriding the terms of the 1995 act! The act being you must be on a continuous journey and not stay in one place for more than 14 days. For those of you who used to ignore 48 hour on mooring signs on this basis, you could now be under breach of your licence, seems a bit harsh. Especially as more and more 48 hour moorings pop up, we will all be on a fast merry go round.

[Alan de Enfield]

Excuse my ignorance here, if indeed it is.

 

Hasn't the 14-day rule always applied, to any narrowboat, except to one that is on it's own mooring at the time?

 

The difference is that a Boat without a home mooring (CCer) has to be in a new 'place' by day 15, A boat with a home mooring just has to move (maybe just a few yards ?) but not to a new place by day 15

[Loafer]

Ah see.

[Guest]

The difference is that a Boat without a home mooring (CCer) has to be in a new 'place' by day 15, A boat with a home mooring just has to move (maybe just a few yards ?) but not to a new place by day 15

Really? That's news to me. I thought I couldn't stay more then 14 days in any one place (accepting of course nobody knows what a 'place' actually is).

[jenlyn]

Really? That's news to me. I thought I couldn't stay more then 14 days in any one place (accepting of course nobody knows what a 'place' actually is).

Place will be a neighbourhood.