Fuel polishing

[blackrose]

Do most people do this as a preventative measure, or only when they suspect they have the diesel bug?

 

If it's the former, how often?

 

Also, I met a bloke at Saul today who said that the Gloucester pilots are now demanding to see a recent fuel polishing certificate before they'll take a boat out onto the Bristol channel. Is it true? I'm a bit sceptical.

Edited January 24, 2015 by blackrose

[Pete & Helen]

Extract from the "Gloucester Pilot" web page, http://www.gloucesterpilots.co.uk/services/leisure/

 

 

"Ensure your engine is in good working order. Boats are immobilized by engine failure more often than by any other cause. (Remember on this passage the water you are upon is not stationary as in a canal, it will be moving over the ground at anything up to 8 knots on spring tides. If your engine fails you will be carried along by the tidal stream with little or no control of your boat.) It is strongly recommended that all reasonable efforts are made to ensure that fuel tanks are clean of sludge either by inspection or by fuel polishing. Although we have no association with and cannot vouch for, www.diesel-bug.com provide a mobile fuel polishing service in the area. We reserve the right to refuse passage to craft we suspect may have dirty fuel.

Engines should be reliable and fuel filters cleaned. Water and sludge that lurks harmlessly at the bottom of your fuel tanks when you are on calm canals will be remixed with fuel when your boat starts to move in a seaway, which frequently leads to fuel system blockages and/or failures.

Engine room ventilators or air intakes near the waterline should be made watertight and suitable alternative ventilation arranged. Since passage can be choppy, inland waterway craft with forward cockpits should have cratch covers or tape up the gaps around forward facing doors.

The bilge pump should be in good working order and tested before the passage.

Spare fuel filters should be carried along with a tool kit"

So it would appear to have some truth about it.

And in answer to your first question, I believe polishing is only done when the bug is found and likely to cause a problem

Edited January 24, 2015 by Pete & Helen

[RLWP]

 

We reserve the right to refuse passage to craft we suspect may have dirty fuel.

 

I'd say that was pretty fair - read it as 'we reserve the right to not put ourselves in positions where we might die'

 

Richard

[Arthur Brown]

I'd suggest that on normal canals of zero current and little swell or chop on the surface there is little problem with some water in the bottom of a tank, BUT on a stretch of open water with wind, tide and current, with swell and chop, then there is a good reason to be well prepared for passage. Fuel polishing is only one part of this -probably an easily specified one.

 

As fuel polishing costs, it's usually only done as a necessity after a "bug" or simply water issue. BUT before attempting a high risk passage is a good time for an extra polishing, or at least proving that the bottom of the tank contains good fuel rather than watery, buggy mess.

[blackrose]

Extract from the "Gloucester Pilot" web page, http://www.gloucesterpilots.co.uk/services/leisure/

 

 

"Ensure your engine is in good working order. Boats are immobilized by engine failure more often than by any other cause. (Remember on this passage the water you are upon is not stationary as in a canal, it will be moving over the ground at anything up to 8 knots on spring tides. If your engine fails you will be carried along by the tidal stream with little or no control of your boat.) It is strongly recommended that all reasonable efforts are made to ensure that fuel tanks are clean of sludge either by inspection or by fuel polishing. Although we have no association with and cannot vouch for, www.diesel-bug.com provide a mobile fuel polishing service in the area. We reserve the right to refuse passage to craft we suspect may have dirty fuel.

Engines should be reliable and fuel filters cleaned. Water and sludge that lurks harmlessly at the bottom of your fuel tanks when you are on calm canals will be remixed with fuel when your boat starts to move in a seaway, which frequently leads to fuel system blockages and/or failures.

Engine room ventilators or air intakes near the waterline should be made watertight and suitable alternative ventilation arranged. Since passage can be choppy, inland waterway craft with forward cockpits should have cratch covers or tape up the gaps around forward facing doors.

The bilge pump should be in good working order and tested before the passage.

Spare fuel filters should be carried along with a tool kit"

So it would appear to have some truth about it.

And in answer to your first question, I believe polishing is only done when the bug is found and likely to cause a problem

 

I've been onto the website many times myself, but I don't see what you mean when you say that there appears to be some truth about it? I'm specifically asking whether they now demand to see fuel polishing certificates?

I'd suggest that on normal canals of zero current and little swell or chop on the surface there is little problem with some water in the bottom of a tank, BUT on a stretch of open water with wind, tide and current, with swell and chop, then there is a good reason to be well prepared for passage. Fuel polishing is only one part of this -probably an easily specified one.

 

As fuel polishing costs, it's usually only done as a necessity after a "bug" or simply water issue. BUT before attempting a high risk passage is a good time for an extra polishing, or at least proving that the bottom of the tank contains good fuel rather than watery, buggy mess.

 

I think we're in danger confusing two different issues (probably my fault).

 

The first is whether fuel polishing is done as a preventative measure to avoid much more costly bills of contaminated injectors.

 

The second is whether Gloucester pilots are now demanding to see fuel polishing certificates before taking a boat out onto the channel.

 

I'd say that was pretty fair - read it as 'we reserve the right to not put ourselves in positions where we might die'

 

Richard

 

I don't because I don't understand how such suspicions could arise - unless someone has actually mentioned to the pilot that their engine sounds like it's running a bit rough?

[Pete & Helen]

 

I've been onto the website many times myself, but I don't see what you mean when you say that there appears to be some truth about it? I'm specifically asking whether they now demand to see fuel polishing certificates?

 

Sorry, I was just trying to give you a starter so you would know that there could be a chance that you would be asked if your fuel had been polished.

 

As I haven't travelled that way I couldn't give you a definitive answer. Someone on here may have been that way recently and give you their experience,(and they may be different) but from the way it read I would have thought that the final decision would be with the pilot on the day.

 

In preparation for your trip I would give the pilots a call and ask their advice,

[blackrose]

 

Sorry, I was just trying to give you a starter so you would know that there could be a chance that you would be asked if your fuel had been polished.

 

As I haven't travelled that way I couldn't give you a definitive answer. Someone on here may have been that way recently and give you their experience,(and they may be different) but from the way it read I would have thought that the final decision would be with the pilot on the day.

 

In preparation for your trip I would give the pilots a call and ask their advice,

 

No problem. I crossed the channel a couple of years ago but was told that they'd only brought this in last year. However they guy who told me this is in the fuel polishing business, which is why I'm a bit sceptical. I'm not thinking about crossing back any time soon, but I inevitably will do at some point.

 

I'm not sure about asking the Gloucester pilots myself unless it was anonymously. I wouldn't want to arouse any suspicions!

 

Two years ago I knew I wouldn't have a problem as my boat is fairly new and I'd bounced around on the tidal Thames plenty of times without any problem.

Edited January 24, 2015 by blackrose

[Tim]

I went from Sharpness to Bristol last May and did not have to produce any such certificate. I was questioned about my engine and fuel system maintenance.

[blackrose]

I went from Sharpness to Bristol last May and did not have to produce any such certificate. I was questioned about my engine and fuel system maintenance.

 

Thanks for that. I guess if they interrogate people before they set out and the answers sound dubious, that's where their suspicions may be aroused.

 

At least we now know that the certificate thing is nonsense.

 

I came across a year before you and I remember the pilots asked me about fuel filters on the phone when I was doing the booking. When I told him I'd changed the separator/agglomerator and the fuel filter elements he was happy that I had both.

Edited January 24, 2015 by blackrose

[David Schweizer]

I actually experienced engine failure as a consequence of diesel bug many years ago in a hire boat. One moment the engine was fine giving no indication of a any imminent failure, and the next moment it just stopped. Fortunately we were going through a bridge so we were able to encourage the boat to the side where we moored and called the hire company.

 

If that happened in the Severn Estuary, it could cause serious problems, and I doubt that an anchor would be much help either unless it had a very long rope, so it is understansdable that the pilots need some sort of reassurance that the chances of it happening in transit are minimal.

Edited January 25, 2015 by David Schweizer

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

I had a problem with water in the fuel when leaving Mayors on the Rufford branch to do the Ribble link. Found the water trap full. Since then I have used a vacuum cleaner and a thin pipe to suck the sludge out of the bottom of the tank before going on bumpy water.

[NMEA]

If the transit is quite short one could negate the poissibility of fuel relared issues by using an outboard motor tank with fresh diesel, they are inexpensive and come in varying shapes and sizes.

[Loafer]

I actually experienced engine failure as a consequence of diesel bug many years ago in a hire boat. One moment the engine was fine giving no indication of a any imminent failure, and the next moment it just stopped. Fortunately we were going through a bridge so we were able to encourage the boat to the side where we moored and called the hire company.

 

If that happened in the Severn Estuary, it could cause serious problems, and I doubt that an anchor would be much help either unless it had a very long rope, so it is understansdable that the pilots need some sort of reassurance that the chances of it happening in transit are minimal.

 

If you have a good anchor and a very long rope, you can always throw that lot overboard, then go below and open a bottle of wine. It's likely that you'll be anchored somewhere by the time you wake up.

[Arthur Brown]

I suspect that a Severn pilot had an issue with a poorly maintained boat so now everyone will be checked for clean reliable fuel and sufficient of it. I wouldn't want to be riding down the Severn with or against the tide without power.

[matty40s]

I suspect that a Severn pilot had an issue with a poorly maintained boat so now everyone will be checked for clean reliable fuel and sufficient of it. I wouldn't want to be riding down the Severn with or against the tide without power.

Dr Bradley will be along in a minute.....

 

Colin(Dr Bradley) actually had his fuel tank polished before he went down the Severn, and still ended up being rescued by the Portishead crew.

He then had another problem a few weeks later on, even though he had again changed filters.

 

We polish tanks where I sub, you will not believe some of the gunge comes out of some tanks - even fairly new boats... several jug fulls of sludge in some cases.

Spare fuel filters and a good knowledge of how to bleed your fuel system quickly are an absolute minimum on any river navigation with a tidal stretch, Severn estuary....I do look forward to doing this soon.

[Arthur Brown]

Actually having tested aircraft tanks for water in the fuel and found plenty, I'm surprised that boats don't wet to a stop more often. I have suspicions that some fuel vendors may well be selling water with their fuel and that some boats take in rain water into the tank through vents.

[Tony Dunkley]

If the transit is quite short one could negate the poissibility of fuel relared issues by using an outboard motor tank with fresh diesel, they are inexpensive and come in varying shapes and sizes.

That's quite a good idea, and it could be rigged up as a standby with suitably arranged pipe work and valves, taking care to make sure the return to tank piping was also included, otherwise the remote standby tank would very quickly run dry with a large proportion of the clean fuel being pumped straight into the main tank with the (possibly) mucky stuff.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Tony Dunkley

[David Mack]

If the transit is quite short one could negate the poissibility of fuel relared issues by using an outboard motor tank with fresh diesel, they are inexpensive and come in varying shapes and sizes.

 

Easier for those boats that have a separate gravity-fed day tank!

[Tony Dunkley]

 

Easier for those boats that have a separate gravity-fed day tank!

Yes, but only provided you have previously pumped up a load of muck into it from the main tank.

[blackrose]

I think I will dip my tank with a transparent tube to see if there's any crap in the bottom. Fortunately I can dip to the bottom of the tank through the filler.

[Scholar Gypsy]

I think I will dip my tank with a transparent tube to see if there's any crap in the bottom. Fortunately I can dip to the bottom of the tank through the filler.

 

I use a small brass hand-held pump (designed for extracting oil through the dipstick hole) and a 4 foot length of microbore copper pipe - reaches right to the bottom of the tank & works a treat.