Renting a boat?

[scrabble]

Hi all, still relatively new here still relatively undecided about whether im going to buy a cheap wreck to do up, a half decent one i can use as is and can change bit by bit, or a sailaway or what im very undecided. Ive decided the best thing i can do is rent a boat for 6 months as there is someone near me that rents boats out on 3, 6 , 9 or 12 month contracts, I won't say how much per month as this is the point of this post, but the price per month is inclusive of everything, there is no extra costs so what i pay a month to this person is one payment and then obviously il have to put diesel in, heating fuels coal etc

 

He has 3 on offer all between 45 and 55 ft in length narrowboats, all recently refurbished and fitted out with everything needed as it would be if you lived in a normal brick and mortar home, washing machine etc. They are constant cruisers so not stuck in marina either. I feel this is the best way for me, il get to experience the lifestyle, the highs and lows and i feel chucking myself in at the deep end renting one is the best way to do this before i spend a lot of money out on something that may not work out or may not be for me.

 

So what would you say is a fair amount to rent a boat, per calender month, where basically i can move my belonging onto and off i go? Im sure someone on here has done similar? Also is there any other things il need to sort? I need a postal address so i guess id need to rent a PO box somewhere? Other than that i cant see anything else holding me back, im single, still fairly young, no kids etc

 

[junior]

I'm pretty sure you categorically cannot rent a boat on a Continuous Cruising license. I'm sure I saw this stated recently by CRT in response to a 'Boat Renting' article in the newspapers.

[Woodstock]

I'm pretty sure you categorically cannot rent a boat on a Continuous Cruising license. I'm sure I saw this stated recently by CRT in response to a 'Boat Renting' article in the newspapers.

There's one company I know of that do- perhaps to do with their contract- you don't "rent", you have a very very low share in the boat for the period of the contract I've seen charges of about £1k per month from one operator. We viewed a boat that one of these companies had for sale and they were in the process of moving it as it had been in that spot for14days. The boat was in poor condition and had not been maintained,. The internet photos we saw could not have been further from the truth- they stated it had recently been refurbished but their definition of recent

could not have been this century

 

I would also encourage the OP to ensure everything is legal, insured and the hirers are reputable. It may also be worth checking the credibility of the hirer- I think someone mentioned on here before that they had bad experiences of one of these operators.

 

Scrabble- Have you seen any of the boats?

Edited January 12, 2015 by Woodstock

[bottle]

It cannot be a CCing boat it has to have permanent mooring, it has to have a trading licence (specifically marked) it has to have a more strict BSS certificate and a lot more things, please do a lot of research.

 

 

Link for a start: https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/boating/a-boat-of-your-own/renting-a-boat-to-live-on-or-hiring-out-your-own-boat

[Lady Muck]

I'm pretty sure you categorically cannot rent a boat on a Continuous Cruising license. I'm sure I saw this stated recently by CRT in response to a 'Boat Renting' article in the newspapers.

Doesnt stop people though. There a quite a few 'fleets' around now, usually run like ETRR boats (i.e share boats) but you still need to see a landlord gas cert and a commercial boat safety cert and possibly a mooring, so Im still dubious of the legality and exactly how much you would be protected if anything went wrong. As for finding a legal long term hire - as rare as hens teeth, Id say. And the legal hires are expensive and people arent often willing to pay that much.

 

As for fair amount, well Ive heard of illegal rentals go from £150 to £1200 a month, I don't know how much ETRR boats are? Over £800 a month?

Edited January 12, 2015 by Lady Muck

[Neil2]

It cannot be a CCing boat it has to have permanent mooring, it has to have a trading licence (specifically marked) it has to have a more strict BSS certificate and a lot more things, please do a lot of research.

 

 

Link for a start: https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/boating/a-boat-of-your-own/renting-a-boat-to-live-on-or-hiring-out-your-own-boat

Absolutely.

 

In theory it's a good way of experiencing life afloat but you must do it 100% above board.

 

CRT take a very dim view of "illegal" trading. I got a very stern letter from them a few years ago saying stop using your boat for commercial purposes or we will send the boys round or words to that effect.

 

It wasn't my boat I hasten to add but one I had previously owned and CRT surprise surprise had made a mistake with the owner details.

[Burgiesburnin]

You can easily pay from £800.00 to £1200.00 per WEEK to rent a boat that is behind described.

I can see no reason why anyone would rent a boat out for much less when at say £650.00 per week you would probably have a que forming to rent your boat.

We recently rented a modest boat on the Lancaster for £110.00 per day and that is the cost all year round. We rented for 6 days at Easter for £660.00 and that included diesel.

I know that it's said that you can't rent out a boat as a ccer but your not supposed to go through red traffic lights either.

 

Sorry, to actually answer the question. I would say if you can get a monthly rental on a well equipped and well appointed boat with a reliable motor for anything under £2000 per month then you should shake his hand up and down like a water pump.

 

As others have said......be cautious.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Burgiesburnin

[Texasboater]

These people are quoting 850 dep and 850pcm rent!

 

http://www.longtermnarrowboathire.co.uk/

[mayalld]

Hi all, still relatively new here still relatively undecided about whether im going to buy a cheap wreck to do up, a half decent one i can use as is and can change bit by bit, or a sailaway or what im very undecided. Ive decided the best thing i can do is rent a boat for 6 months as there is someone near me that rents boats out on 3, 6 , 9 or 12 month contracts, I won't say how much per month as this is the point of this post, but the price per month is inclusive of everything, there is no extra costs so what i pay a month to this person is one payment and then obviously il have to put diesel in, heating fuels coal etc

 

He has 3 on offer all between 45 and 55 ft in length narrowboats, all recently refurbished and fitted out with everything needed as it would be if you lived in a normal brick and mortar home, washing machine etc. They are constant cruisers so not stuck in marina either. I feel this is the best way for me, il get to experience the lifestyle, the highs and lows and i feel chucking myself in at the deep end renting one is the best way to do this before i spend a lot of money out on something that may not work out or may not be for me.

 

So what would you say is a fair amount to rent a boat, per calender month, where basically i can move my belonging onto and off i go? Im sure someone on here has done similar? Also is there any other things il need to sort? I need a postal address so i guess id need to rent a PO box somewhere? Other than that i cant see anything else holding me back, im single, still fairly young, no kids etc

 

 

As others have said, the whole area of renting out boats, and the complex fictions of shared ownership that get concocted to give them a veneer of apparent legality has been seen before.

 

Opinion on the legality of the arrangements is divided, and largely consists of;

 

Saying that it is legal:

People who rent out boats

People who are thinking of taking one of the boats on and have been told by the guy who owns it that he has it all legal and above board

 

Saying that it isn't legal:

Everybody else

 

To hire out a boat, there are many hoops to jump through (Safety Certificate, Handover Process, Insurance), all of which cost a LOT of money, and mean that those who operate legally can't compete on price with the cowboys.

 

What convinces me that this is dodgy is that it is being hired out as a CCer. CRT don't issue licences on a CCer basis to hire boats, so these boats are not legitimately licenced.

[MtB]

One gets the impression this bloke may have been stopped already, as the website states:

 

"AVAILABILITY - DUE TO HIGH DEMAND SHE HAS BEEN SNATCHED UP UNTIL 31ST OF OCTOBER 2014!"

 

http://www.longtermnarrowboathire.co.uk/costs/4578348849

 

 

MtB

[Alf Roberts]

Hi all, still relatively new here still relatively undecided about whether im going to buy a cheap wreck to do up, a half decent one i can use as is and can change bit by bit, or a sailaway or what im very undecided. Ive decided the best thing i can do is rent a boat for 6 months as there is someone near me that rents boats out on 3, 6 , 9 or 12 month contracts, I won't say how much per month as this is the point of this post, but the price per month is inclusive of everything, there is no extra costs so what i pay a month to this person is one payment and then obviously il have to put diesel in, heating fuels coal etc

 

He has 3 on offer all between 45 and 55 ft in length narrowboats, all recently refurbished and fitted out with everything needed as it would be if you lived in a normal brick and mortar home, washing machine etc. They are constant cruisers so not stuck in marina either. I feel this is the best way for me, il get to experience the lifestyle, the highs and lows and i feel chucking myself in at the deep end renting one is the best way to do this before i spend a lot of money out on something that may not work out or may not be for me.

 

So what would you say is a fair amount to rent a boat, per calender month, where basically i can move my belonging onto and off i go? Im sure someone on here has done similar? Also is there any other things il need to sort? I need a postal address so i guess id need to rent a PO box somewhere? Other than that i cant see anything else holding me back, im single, still fairly young, no kids etc

 

somewhere between £300 - £600 per month depending on condition and length.

[Paul C]

TBH the renter is probably in a fairly strong position - unless you consider the risk vs cost of losing your home, vs its low(ish) price.

 

The "landlord" is in a much weaker position, because if there's no fixed base, there is the relatively straightforward scam of a renter repainting the boat then selling it. And since they aren't actually "renting" it but a part-owner, they could argue it was theirs to sell - thus the police become uninterested and it becomes a civil matter. It can and does happen.

 

Having seen these kinds of discussion before, a pragmatic solution is to buy a not-too-expensive secondhand boat and if its not for you after 6 months, sell it again - if you buy at a realistic price and sell at a realistic price, the depreciation should be low and the running costs in the 6 months are just that - your living expenses for the boating lifestyle. Cross your fingers that something significant or expensive doesn't break in that 6 month period.

[Wanted]

somewhere between £300 - £600 per month depending on condition and length.

And you could stick another 200 on if you are in London.

[Lady Muck]

TBH the renter is probably in a fairly strong position - unless you consider the risk vs cost of losing your home, vs its low(ish) price.

 

The "landlord" is in a much weaker position, because if there's no fixed base, there is the relatively straightforward scam of a renter repainting the boat then selling it. And since they aren't actually "renting" it but a part-owner, they could argue it was theirs to sell - thus the police become uninterested and it becomes a civil matter. It can and does happen.

 

Having seen these kinds of discussion before, a pragmatic solution is to buy a not-too-expensive secondhand boat and if its not for you after 6 months, sell it again - if you buy at a realistic price and sell at a realistic price, the depreciation should be low and the running costs in the 6 months are just that - your living expenses for the boating lifestyle. Cross your fingers that something significant or expensive doesn't break in that 6 month period.

Have we done that UK law concerning tenancies does not apply to boats, only property (i.e. Houses/flats) so you can be thrown out at no notice, which I've heard happen a few times now. Nothing in law to protect you, the tenant. Of course, as you say, it's the landlord that holds the most risk. We heard of a tenant get given notice by the landlord, the tenant moved the boat to the other side of town, altered the paperwork, sold it on and declared it stolen. The whole thing is a minefield as the fact that boats can be moved around combined with the lack of legislation to protect you, it's not worth it, to me.

[DHutch]

You can easily pay from £800.00 to £1200.00 per WEEK to rent a boat that is behind described.

As others have said......be cautious.

 

I have not issues with being cautious, but it has to be said that the boats being rented for £800-1200 are for a week or two at a time, not long term rentals.

 

You can pay £150/night for a decent hotel room in Birmingham, that doesn't mean a one room flat can raise £4500/month in rent next door.

 

 

Daniel

[cotswoldsman]

I saw a nice one on Gumtree for £700 PM in Birmingham I think maybe the price depends on the locality but have to say not seen many for rent up North.

With regards to post you are best using a friend or relative address it carries more credibility than a box number

[Lady Muck]

I've been using boatmail for two months now, it's great. They scan your post and email it to you. anything thats not scannable they hold it for you, until you tell them where to post it to.

[the barnacle]

One gets the impression this bloke may have been stopped already, as the website states:

 

"AVAILABILITY - DUE TO HIGH DEMAND SHE HAS BEEN SNATCHED UP UNTIL 31ST OF OCTOBER 2014!"

 

http://www.longtermnarrowboathire.co.uk/costs/4578348849

 

 

MtB

2014 has passed so maybe available again?

[RichardH]

I'm pretty sure you categorically cannot rent a boat on a Continuous Cruising license. I'm sure I saw this stated recently by CRT in response to a 'Boat Renting' article in the newspapers.

Correct. However some of these long term people don't licence the boat for hire - they are on a private licence and hirers buy a very small share in the vessel.

[mayalld]

Correct. However some of these long term people don't licence the boat for hire - they are on a private licence and hirers buy a very small share in the vessel.

 

The shared ownership fiction is well known.

 

It doesn't alter the fact that it is a fiction.

[cotswoldsman]

The shared ownership fiction is well known.

 

It doesn't alter the fact that it is a fiction.

Are you saying I am not allowed to sell shares in my boat? Shared ownership has been around for a long time. I was talking to a couple last year that had purchased a boat with another couple both couples were retired and they just work out a roster between them and the boat is out 12 months a year

[mayalld]

Are you saying I am not allowed to sell shares in my boat? Shared ownership has been around for a long time. I was talking to a couple last year that had purchased a boat with another couple both couples were retired and they just work out a roster between them and the boat is out 12 months a year

 

Not at all.

 

The selling of shares in boats is well established.

 

The fiction comes in terms of the use relative to the share owned (we will ignore the fact that these are typically NOT legitimate 1/64 shares)

 

If I own 1/64 of a boat, and somebody else owns 63/64, but in actual fact I have the whole use of the boat, in return for a payment to the 63/64 owner, then I am hiring the other person's share from them. The fiction fails.

 

If, having bought a 1/64 share, I am not free to continue to own that 1/64 share, but am obliged to sell it back to the owner, then I never truly owned it. The fiction fails again.

 

If I refuse to sell the share back, can I then continue to claim a right to 1/64 of the use of the boat, even once I stop paying rent?

 

These transactions are an attempt to create a veneer of ownership so as to pretend that this isn't a hire boat, but on every level the fiction fails.

[cotswoldsman]

 

Not at all.

 

The selling of shares in boats is well established.

 

The fiction comes in terms of the use relative to the share owned (we will ignore the fact that these are typically NOT legitimate 1/64 shares)

 

If I own 1/64 of a boat, and somebody else owns 63/64, but in actual fact I have the whole use of the boat, in return for a payment to the 63/64 owner, then I am hiring the other person's share from them. The fiction fails.

 

If, having bought a 1/64 share, I am not free to continue to own that 1/64 share, but am obliged to sell it back to the owner, then I never truly owned it. The fiction fails again.

 

If I refuse to sell the share back, can I then continue to claim a right to 1/64 of the use of the boat, even once I stop paying rent?

 

These transactions are an attempt to create a veneer of ownership so as to pretend that this isn't a hire boat, but on every level the fiction fails.

This I presume is "Mayall Fiction" if all parties taking part in the ownership are happy and they draw up a contract then it is legal. Now it might not suit you but then that hardly matters

[mayalld]

This I presume is "Mayall Fiction" if all parties taking part in the ownership are happy and they draw up a contract then it is legal. Now it might not suit you but then that hardly matters

 

The trouble is that this isn't the case.

 

In this case, the relationship that the owner and the putative minor owner have with other parties is governed by whether they are are or not a part owner of the boat.

 

Hence, if either party represents to CRT that the boat is privately owned and not a hire boat, and CRT grant advantageous terms on that basis, then the question of whether this is true or a convenient fiction ceases to be a private matter between the contracting parties.

 

It then gets into the realms of deception.

[Paul C]

This I presume is "Mayall Fiction" if all parties taking part in the ownership are happy and they draw up a contract then it is legal. Now it might not suit you but then that hardly matters

 

You presume wrong, what he says is correct and has a basis in law. And to pre-empt your asking for a link: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/35/section/2Fraud Act 2006 section 2.