Batteries. Cheap a cheerful, replace often or quality and maintain?

[Keeping Up]

Even doing all that, my batteries just won't last. After extensive correspondence with Varta tech support it seems that for their batteries you need to add

 

6. Pick the batteries up and shake them about once a month

 

Yes really, that is their genuine suggestion!

[dmr]

Even doing all that, my batteries just won't last. After extensive correspondence with Varta tech support it seems that for their batteries you need to add

 

6. Pick the batteries up and shake them about once a month

 

Yes really, that is their genuine suggestion!

 

That sounds like hard work, have you just tried driving into a lock a bit too fast?

If this shaking really is needed then it sounds like stratification (I have not yet decided if this is a real issue or not). It is said that a good equalisation charge will resolve this by making lots bubbling.

 

When my Elecsols failed (after only a few months) the nice gentleman at Elecsol said they just needed shaking!

 

..............Dave

[bottle]

 

I never really understand what people mean by "looking after" batteries. I am not aware that I particularly look after the batteries on or boat, and they seem to last for a very long time. Yes I ensure that the electrolyte is at the correct level , and I always ensure that they are fully charged before I leave the boat for more than a day, but that is it.

 

We do not live aboard, except when cruising, and normally move for at least five hours each day, so the batteries get re-charged every day they are in use. People also talk about balancing their batteries, but I have no idea what that means, perhaps I am doing that without realizing it.

 

I sometimes wonder whether there is a lot of "smoke and mirrors" about battery management generated by people who want others to believe they are experts.

 

Yes David

 

but I live aboard 24/7 run a fridge and a freezer 24/7 plus TV, water pumps, lighting (LED) etc.

 

My batteries are charged twice a day (total of 4 to 5 hours) not always to 100% SOC

 

A soon as they are charged, they are working and start to be discharged.

 

They are never fully charged for more than a couple of minutes, if that.

 

The original 'leisure batteries' lasted 2½ years the latest 'deep cycle' have lasted 2½ years but are beginning to fail.

[rogeriko]

Unless you are going to look after the expensive batteries just replace them with cheap ones. You can kill expensive ones just as quickly as cheap ones.

There is no such thing as expensive batteries and cheap ones that is just down to marketing and the retailers profit margin. What there is is batteries that are designed to be discharged down to 20% and those that are designed to go down only to 50%, also those with 2000 cycles and those with 500 cycles. If you read the specs Traction ie Forklift batteries are 2000 discharges as opposed to leisure which are only 500 discharges also surprise surprise, Forklift batteries can be discharged way more without damaging them. Forklift batteries are also capable of high amp discharges which leisure batteries arent. If you are just running led lights then leisure is fine but as soon as you connect an inverter with a 100A draw (1Kw) then the leisure batts will die quick. If you read battery specs you will see ratings of C5 C10 C20 C100 this is the capacity of the battery at different rates of discharge, in laymans terms, when you turn on your inverter your 110 Ah battery is actually only going to be about 70Ah, if that because you are drawing a larger current from the battery than it was designed for. Leiure batteries are rated at C20 ie 20 hours to discharge to 50% or a current of 2.5 amps for your normal 110Ah battery. Forklift batteries are rated at C5 or 5 hours to discharge down to 50% thats a current of 10 amps for a 110Ah forklift battery. The charging rates are also equivalent. A 110Ah forklift battery is actually closer to 180Ah if you use the same C ratings. A good set of 500Ah Forklift batteries fully charged will last the average boater about a week before they need charging because when you are just running led lights and the tv the current draw is so low that the batteries are around 750Ah in reality. Your leisure batteries run down quick as soon as you use a heavy load even only for 10 minutes will take a huge chunk out of them.

 

The key to the storage power is in the weight of the lead. A 260 kg battery is way better than a 130kg battery. As far as killing a forklift battery is concerned they are extremely indestructible. Run them flat, way down below a leisure battery and its no problem they were designed for it. Leave them flat for a week or two no problem they come right back because they are built to last. In fact they are designed to be discharged every day for 5 years, 2000 cycles, but on a boat where we are only running them down once a week thats why they can easily last 15 years. I am including a photo of the batteries that ran my house in Greece only charged by the sun and the wind. The batteries were 24 years old at the time of the photo. They had been emptied and left in a field for 2 years, I refilled them and off we went almost as good as new.

 

Unfortunately Forklift batteries are expensive in the UK because they are only sold commercialy to factorys so they are tax deductible to the customer who dosnt really care about the cost. In Germany there are many thousands of private customers buying these batteries to connect to their solar panels at home and get a grant from the german government, thats why big batteries are cheap over there, theres a bigger demand. The wholesale cost per Kg is the same for most types of battery, in Greece I was buying big 1200Ah batteries for 300 pounds each, in the UK the same product was double the price because there is little demand over here for off-grid living.

 

[David Schweizer]

 

1 Keeping the water level correct.

2 Avoiding over discharge.

3 Achieving 100% charge on a regular basis (can be very challenging especially for off-grid liveaboards).

4 Equalisation when required (including knowing when it is required!).

5 Keeping terminals clean and tight.

 

Sounds easy, almost trivial, but many posts on this forum suggest that it is beyond many boaters! I'm an engineer and it took me a couple of years to get competent at it!

 

..........Dave

 

I already do 1,2,3,&5, but what does Equalisation mean, and what does it involve?

[rogeriko]

Equalisation means overcharging so that any individual cells that are slightly lower than the others can catch up, in other words once a month when your batteries reach 100% keep charging for a couple of hours more.

[magnetman]

 

Is this Equalisation ?

[bottle]

Equalisation is carried out after certain factors are taken into consideration and is carried out with a raised voltage, compared to the absorption voltage.

 

For a total explanation and reasons for doing it see: http://www.batteryfaq.org/

[ditchcrawler]

 

I never really understand what people mean by "looking after" batteries. I am not aware that I particularly look after the batteries on or boat, and they seem to last for a very long time. Yes I ensure that the electrolyte is at the correct level , and I always ensure that they are fully charged before I leave the boat for more than a day, but that is it.

 

 

But a lot of people don't do that. When we were moored on the Oxford we would often be passing Stockton, then one of the homes of Ownerships. On Thursday afternoon the boats would return to within about a mile of the marina, the cleaning and getting ready to leave the boats would begin, all the liights and TV would be on all evening and of course the fridge and freezer, probably the dish washer and inverter as well then 9am Friday a short hop to the marina. Friday afternoon crew 2 arrives load the boat and go just out of the marina, again light and TV on, fresh and frozen food in the firidge and freezer and the batteries had not had any recharge at all that day.

Even on our shared boat one of the owners let is daughter have it for a week, went as far as the pub, played cards to the early hours, hardly moved before repeating and had to call the boatyard out because the batteries were flat. O I forgot the microwave meals on a Rediline rotary inverter.

[Robbo]

Forklift batteries are also capable of high amp discharges which leisure batteries arent

This isn't correct, leisure/starter batteries can give and take amps quicker than traction batteries.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Robbo

[David Schweizer]

Equalisation means overcharging so that any individual cells that are slightly lower than the others can catch up, in other words once a month when your batteries reach 100% keep charging for a couple of hours more.

 

We have an Alternator Regulator fitted, set at the higher charge rate of 14.8volts. The Instalation instructuions also refere to a 1-6 hour equalising time cycle which operates automaticly. Does this mean that I am already equalizing the batteries even though i did not know it?

[bottle]

Yes, possibly, if you leave the alternator/engine running (for 1-6 hours) after the batteries have reached 100% SOC but see my link, equalisation is not always necessary.

[rogeriko]

rogeriko, on 03 Jan 2015 - 2:05 PM, said:

Forklift batteries are also capable of high amp discharges which leisure batteries arent

 

Robbo

This isn't correct, leisure/starter batteries can give and take amps quicker than traction batteries

 

 

OK perhaps I should have said Forklift batteries are also capable of giving continuous high amp discharges which leisure batteries arent. I have installed many 3Kw 24v inverters with traction batteries and when everything in the house is on they are discharging at 150A for several hours on end..If you by chance happen to short out the terminals whatever it was that caused the short just vaporises 1000's of amps.

Edited January 3, 2015 by rogeriko

[peterboat]

Here is a couple of houses running on forklift batteries that I have installed.

 

 

I thought they would have put a watering system in

 

Peter

[peterboat]

I bought my first full traction bank from PB Batteries they were expensive and arrived from Poland flat as pancakes I wasnt happy as you can imagine they charged up ok and as I say 9 years on still work ok. My second bank was bought locally was cheaper and were fully charged The watering system was cheaper too I now have over 1500 ah but I have all the stuff that a house has and as we know in this country the sun doesnt alway shine for solar.

 

Peter

[Naughty Cal]

Even doing all that, my batteries just won't last. After extensive correspondence with Varta tech support it seems that for their batteries you need to add

 

6. Pick the batteries up and shake them about once a month

 

Yes really, that is their genuine suggestion!

Interesting you say that as we found with our last set and this set of Varta's that they seem to perform a bit better after we have been to sea and they have been shaken around a bit.