Alternator problems .....continued

[RLWP]

Another tool from the same box is to find someone willing to listen to your explaining out loud the problem or whatever it is that you don't understand.

 

When a real human bean is listening, it's remarkable how often you have an 'aha!' moment, even if they are not understanding or particularly interested.

 

 

MtB

There's a variation on that in computing called the Cardboard Programmer.

 

Richard

[MtB]

There's a variation on that in computing called the Cardboard Programmer.

 

Richard

 

Paradoxically this doesn't work though according to MrsMtB, a programmer of 35 years experience. It HAS to be a real human bean, nodding and smiling in all the right places..

 

MtB

[chubby]

Cheers again guys .

 

Richard , thanks again for all your help . The belt is " XPA 1157 (3450) "

 

Bizzard , looking closely at the belt , its notched like the belt on OldGoats link & to my eyes looks much the same . I need a spare belt anyway as i fitted what was the spare & i m happy to go with a recommended belt as it has enabled OldGoat to have to change them less often so they seem pretty robust & so I shall order one or two .

 

cheers

[bizzard]

Cheers again guys .

 

Richard , thanks again for all your help . The belt is " XPA 1157 (3450) "

 

Bizzard , looking closely at the belt , its notched like the belt on OldGoats link & to my eyes looks much the same . I need a spare belt anyway as i fitted what was the spare & i m happy to go with a recommended belt as it has enabled OldGoat to have to change them less often so they seem pretty robust & so I shall order one or two .

 

cheers

That's right, an old type plain V belt would probably be difficult to find anyway these days.

[RLWP]

Right, XPA 1157 is length 1157mm.

 

http://www.best-drive-belt.co.uk/v-belts/power-belts-det.212201157.html

 

Now you don't need to cut and measure yours

 

Richard

[chubby]

Cheers Richard

 

Every days a schoolday !

1157 is its length .

 

another lesson learnt . Whats the view like from the top of the learning curve ? I don t think I 'll ever make it to the top .

[RLWP]

Dunno, I'm part way up the lower escarpment on the way to base camp. I'm happy to chuck a line down to followers though

 

Richard

[cuthound]

Cheers Richard

Every days a schoolday !

1157 is its length .

another lesson learnt . Whats the view like from the top of the learning curve ? I don t think I 'll ever make it to the top .

To find that out you would have to ask a teenager - they know EVERYTHING.

[by'eck]

Cheers Bizzard ,

It is the 2.3 w bulb . I believe the original was a 1.2 . Its not red though but in the grand scheme of thats a complete & utter non issue !

This bulb came from Halfords because when i visited the auto electricians & explained what i needed & why - a bigger bulb etc he said that i couldn t physically have a 4 or 6 W bulb the same size & fitting as the original 1.2 W .

For less than £1.50 he provided me with a 4w bulb , physically much bigger - about 6mm wide , spade connectors & rectangular plastic sleeves to protect or cover the connections .

Using this bulb will mean it is not inside the voltmeter as originally installed & would require me to extend the bulb wiring by maybe 6 inches , using spade connectors onto those already fitted & then drill a new hole adjacent to the exising instrument panel , fit the bulb & then go googling for some sort of cover to fit over the bulb itself to weatherproof it .

This to me is not ideal , but , if this route is recommended & it makes the whole installation more robust , more reliable then i ll do it . The stuff the auto electrician sold me looks reliable .

So , shall i re connect the " lamp " connection at alternator to the ignition wiring loom & try the engine to see if the increase in bulb wattage from 1.2 to 2.3 is sufficient ?

cheers again

An alternative to an extra bulb would be a resistor in parallel to original. I used these 47 ohm wirewound ones across the LED alt charge indicators I chose to use. This to simulate a 3 watt bulb since by themselves the LED's draw insignificant current. Note the wattage rating of the resistor needs to be in excess of that simulated.

 

FWIW a 36 ohm resistor would be the equivalent of a 4 watt bulb.

[chubby]

Well despite yesterday evenings optimism the fault isn t yet fixed . Ran it this morning & it seemed ok , but the probs returned after about 10 minutes .

I had no choice but to move my boat as i had ran out of about everything on board .

Im off for another short walk as i ve become sick of the sight of my engine

 

cheers

[chubby]

I retried Petes test lamp test .

Connected the 10 w bulb to domestic +ive & lamp connection at alternator .

 

Engine started fine . Alternator started fine .BUT the lamp pulsed on & off at 1 second intervals .

 

This did not affect the alternator & no buzzer came on .

 

I think i m going to try for 24 more hours & after that i ll to quit as this problem is now draining my willpower

 

cheers

[smileypete]

I retried Petes test lamp test .

Connected the 10 w bulb to domestic +ive & lamp connection at alternator .

 

Engine started fine . Alternator started fine .BUT the lamp pulsed on & off at 1 second intervals .

 

This did not affect the alternator & no buzzer came on .

 

I think i m going to try for 24 more hours & after that i ll to quit as this problem is now draining my willpower

 

IS there any input from solar? Could you try with panels disconnected or covered?

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[chubby]

Cheers Pete

 

Yes . Definately solar input . Bright sunny day .

 

A cup of tea & i ll get them covered & re test

 

cheers

[chubby]

Ok

 

Panels covered & tested again . Bulb pulsed on & off , not at full brightness

 

cheers

 

ETA : Test repeated , this time with panel totally disconnected . Engine on . Alternator on . Fine for 20 seconds then test lamp pulses on & off , again not full brightness . Altenator continued to charge & no buzzer

Dear oh dear !

 

cheers

Edited January 9, 2015 by chubby

[smileypete]

I take it that's with the test lamp with one end connected to domestic batt.

 

Have a bit of a break soon. Does it still pulse with a load on the domestic batts, like switch some lights on in the boat (don't forget to switch them off!).

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[chubby]

Cheers Pete

 

i can t take a break . Im at a very important point in some very difficult studies & i need to focus on them asap . Every day i spend on this problem is one i can t afford . I need to fix this problem quickly & properly and it seems as soon as one hurdle gets cleared another one pops up . Its just a replacement alternator & yet its turned into a complete mare !!

 

I ll retest & put some load on the batts

 

cheers again , the help is truly appreciated

[chubby]

Ok

 

Cheers Pete for hanging in there . Truly grateful .

 

Test redone connected test lamp between domestic +ive & lamp connection at alt .

Engine on , alt on .

45 - 60 seconds later test lamp pulse very dimly at one second intervals .

No buzzer

alt still operating .

 

When i apply a load - a light in the engine bay , the test lamp stops pulsing & remains off .

I switched the engine bay light on & off several times . Each time i switched it off the test lamp pulsed . Each time i switched the engine bay light back on the test lamp remained off .

 

Theres a definate link . What it means though is not fathomable to me though just yet

 

cheers again

[smileypete]

OK I take it that during these tests the alt warning light connection is disconnected from the loom, and *only* connected to the test lamp.

 

Sounds like the batts are taking so little current (probably sealed batts) the alt drops out of excitation a little, or it drops out of excitation when the solar is providing a higher voltage.

 

Maybe the thing to do is disconnect the warning buzzer for now and at some point install a digital panel voltmeter (a lot more useful).

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited January 9, 2015 by smileypete

[nicknorman]

Maybe the thing to do is disconnect the warning buzzer for now

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

I wouldn't recommend disconnecting the buzzer, since it is also used to signal low oil pressure and overheating. If keeping a light on whilst cruising at tickover stops the problem, this is surely a better solution (and doesn't the OP say that the buzzer isn't actually sounding anyway?).

 

OP does increasing the revs a bit stop the light pulsing?

Edited January 9, 2015 by nicknorman

[chubby]

Cheers Pete

 

The voltmeter lamp is in its holder but does not illuminate during ignition . Only the test lamp comes on when connected to the domestic battery + ive .

When key is turned it turns off .

 

The batts are standard types that open for topping up . They are at 100 SOC according to the smartgauge . Whilst the bulb pulses the alternator is. unaffected ... ish .

On a voltmeter the alt output to domestic bank is 14.15 -14.20 . ( measured at batts )

 

The irony of what you say Pete about digital meters is that next summer i planned to have someone fit one & to have all my fuses organised onto a switchboard type thing etc as part of improving the boat .

 

Thats if i ever get it straightened out . Lately its all fix fix fix , no time to improve !

I still love my boat tho !!

 

ETA : Sorry Nick . i started typing this & had to stop halfway thru . Winds picking up & went out to sort my mooring ropes . Crossed post

Edited January 9, 2015 by chubby

[chubby]

Hello Nick ,

 

Having a cabin light on etc is absolutely no problem at all . I m just concerned that this pulsing is indicating a new problem . The buzzer doesn t sound when this pulsing occurs & the alternator delivers 14.15 - 14.3 V . It seems unaffected .

 

I think im going to test the theory that the batts may not take the altenator charge by doing a bit of much needed vacuuming . This will lower the batteries SOC .

 

I will first see what happens to the pulsing test bulb when i apply revs .

 

A question if i may .

If the alternator puts out 14.3 volts ( read on multimeter at domestic batt terminals ) does this mean that it goes into the battery ? Or , when " full " can they / will they effectively shut the door on the incoming charge voltage ?

 

cheers

Edited January 9, 2015 by chubby

[smileypete]

The voltmeter lamp is in its holder but does not illuminate during ignition . Only the test lamp comes on when connected to the domestic battery + ive .

 

OK, but when doing the tests, is the alt warning lamp connection only connected to the test lamp, and totally disconnected from the engine loom?

 

If the warning buzzer is needed for other things, maybe take some pics of behind the panel if you can get to it, and post them up for suggestions.

 

Or if time is short, rig up something like the test lamp with a button so you can manually energise it until someone can help out in person with it.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited January 9, 2015 by smileypete

[chubby]

Cheers Pete

 

I struggle to understand the question i m afraid .

 

The tiny bulb is in its holder . When i rig up the test lamp between domestic + ive & alt lamp connection the test lamp illuminates the moment i connect the crocodile clip . This is before the ignition key is 1/2 way . Turn key 1/2 way buzzer sounds aswell . Turn engine on , buzzer stops , test lamp goes out ( until it begins pulsing dimly )

The voltmeter bulb does not come on at any point .

 

When i disconnect the test lamp & reconnect the alt lamp terminal to the bullet connector at the end of the wiring loom & turn the key 1/2 way the voltmeter bulb illuminates (& buzzer sounds )

 

Thats as best i can describe the testing procedure .

 

cheers

[smileypete]

Cheers Pete

 

I struggle to understand the question i m afraid .

 

The tiny bulb is in its holder . When i rig up the test lamp between domestic + ive & alt lamp connection the test lamp illuminates the moment i connect the crocodile clip . This is before the ignition key is 1/2 way . Turn key 1/2 way buzzer sounds aswell . Turn engine on , buzzer stops , test lamp goes out ( until it begins pulsing dimly )

The voltmeter bulb does not come on at any point .

 

When i disconnect the test lamp & reconnect the alt lamp terminal to the bullet connector at the end of the wiring loom & turn the key 1/2 way the voltmeter bulb illuminates (& buzzer sounds )

 

Thats as best i can describe the testing procedure .

 

cheers

 

OK I take it the warning lamp connection at the alternator end was disconnected from the engine loom (ISTR you mentioned a bullet connector).

 

Anyway if you can't spend more time on it and the buzzer is a PITA, maybe just rig up the test lamp with a switch for now, and just switch it on before running the engine.

 

Longer term maybe email some pics of behind the panel to someone to post here, may be possible to provide a separate feed from the ignition switch to the alternator warning lamp, so the buzzer doesn't sound when the lamp is lit.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited January 9, 2015 by smileypete

[chubby]

Cheers Pete

 

Yes . The wiring loom connects the alt lamp connection with bullet connector . I pull these apart & put the end of the test lamp to connect at back of alt .

 

I just redone the test . No test lamp pulsing after 15 minutes of engine running . SOC 100 . Lights had been for 10 mins prior to retest . No lights were on during retest . No solar input at present .

 

The goalposts keep moving .

 

I think tomorrow im going to have to fit the 4w bulb & ive got to wait & see what happens . The pulsing bulb is a complete mystery , but once a load is applied onto the domestic batts it stops .

 

Cheers again

Edited January 9, 2015 by chubby