Will my boat be able to navigate from Napton to Ely ?

[Blazeaway]

Being new to Narrow Boat ownership I am planning future cruises to places that I'd like to go.

 

I've seen and tried out the very useful canalplanac (http://canalplan.eu/index.html) which tells me it will take about 8 days if I want to do it at a brisk pace cruising everyday for about 8 hours a day.

 

All very useful but I couldn't see how I could easily find out if my 70 foot x 6'10" narrowboat would could get through the route that was proposed.

 

Clicking on individual Canal & River sections I can find the size limitations but its a bit labourious, I also see that there is one section of the middle levels that is max 60 feet, but there appears to be a number of different cruising routes possible but as yet I don't know what they are called so am not able to easily assess them.

 

So is there a simple way to answer the question "Will my boat navigate this route ?" ...............for this route and any future cruises I plan on making ? (CanalPlanAC or otherwise ?)

 

This is what CanalPlanAC suggested for Napton to Ely

From Napton Bottom Lock No 8 travel northeast on the Oxford Canal (Southern Section - Main Line) for 1 mile, 7¾ furlongs to Napton Junction, then travel northeast on the Grand Union Canal (Oxford Canal Section) for 5 miles, 1½ furlongs to Braunston Turn, then travel southeast on the Grand Union Canal (Grand Junction Canal - Main Line) for 16 miles, 6¾ furlongs and 13 locks to Gayton Junction, then travel northeast on the Grand Union Canal (Northampton Branch) for 4 miles, 6¼ furlongs and 17 locks to Northampton Junction, then travel northeast on the River Nene (main river) for 61 miles, ¾ furlongs and 37 locks to Peterborough Junction, then travel southeast on the River Nene (Stanground Branch) for 1 mile, 4¾ furlongs and 1 lock to Stanground Sluice, then travel east on the Middle Level Navigations (King's Dyke) for 3 miles, 1¾ furlongs to Whittlesey Bridge, then travel east on the Middle Level Navigations (Whittlesey Dyke) for 2 miles, 6 furlongs and 1 lock to Angle Corner, then travel east on the Middle Level Navigations (Twenty Foot River) for 12 miles, 3¼ furlongs to Old River Nene - Twenty Foot River Junction, then travel northeast on the Middle Level Navigations (Old River Nene) for 3 miles, 6¼ furlongs and 1 lock to Outwell, then travel east on the Middle Level Navigations (Well Creek) for 5 miles, 3¼ furlongs and 1 lock to Salter's Lode Junction, then travel south on the River Great Ouse (New Bedford River) for 2½ furlongs to Denver Junction, then travel south on the River Great Ouse (Old West River) for 15 miles, 1¾ furlongs and 1 lock to Ely Railway Bridge.

 

[Martin Megson]

The canal plan site if you select preferences from the side menu and then select the planning tab there is an option to set your boat dimensions which the planner will then take into account. Of course its not infaliable.

 

Having done the route a few times (I'm only 55ft) it is possible but there are a couple of issues you need to be aware of. Firstly there is a very tight an narrow 90deg turn coming into Whittlesey. I am told it is possible to get a 70ft narrow boat around but it's not easy. Secondly Salters lode lock is too short for your boat but the good news is that as the river Gt Ouse is tidal at that point it is possible, when the tide is level with the lock, for the lock keeper to open both gates at the same time to let a 70 ft boat through. You need to book at least 24 hrs ahead so just let him know your boat length and he'll be able to put you through at the right time.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Meggers

[ditchcrawler]

Yes you can do it but if your boat is an old trad with a deep draft at the back end you may need to go through Stanground Lock backwards, like wise through Salter on level water.

[Blazeaway]

Cheers Meggers

Really useful reply, I will go take a lock at preferences.

[Keeping Up]

Canal plan is clever enough to take into account your boat's length, and its width, but not clever enough to take into account combinations of length and width. Thus it will tell you that you cannot get round Briggate bend at Whittlesea if you are over 60ft simply because if you were 14ft wide that would be the limit. But it is not really much of a problem for a full length narrowboat, so sometimes you have to turn off boat dimensions in your preferences.

[calamity507]

Done it many times , in an old 70 footer, you should have no problem

[Blazeaway]

Thanks folks for useful info, looks like I have a lot to learn, as if I didn't already know that.

 

Tried the 'boat dimensions' and indeed it now tells me I am too long for the route (but I accept Meggers idea of going through at high tide, but I guess that depends on the height of each tide, maybe need to consult directly with Salters Load lock on that one). CanalPlanAC did offer another route that included going into The Wash, don't think I'm ready for that yet.

[ditchcrawler]

Thanks folks for useful info, looks like I have a lot to learn, as if I didn't already know that.

 

Tried the 'boat dimensions' and indeed it now tells me I am too long for the route (but I accept Meggers idea of going through at high tide, but I guess that depends on the height of each tide, maybe need to consult directly with Salters Load lock on that one). CanalPlanAC did offer another route that included going into The Wash, don't think I'm ready for that yet.

Paul at Salters should be able to get you in and out most days unless there is a lot of silting up over the winter.

[MoominPapa]

Thanks folks for useful info, looks like I have a lot to learn, as if I didn't already know that.

 

Tried the 'boat dimensions' and indeed it now tells me I am too long for the route (but I accept Meggers idea of going through at high tide, but I guess that depends on the height of each tide, maybe need to consult directly with Salters Load lock on that one). CanalPlanAC did offer another route that included going into The Wash, don't think I'm ready for that yet.

Salter's Lode will be fine, as long as you tell the Lockie in advance.

 

Do take notice of the warnings about Stanground if the boat is more than 2'3" deep. If it is, there's a risk that the stern will ground on the shallow part of the lock as it empties. To solve this, you can go into the lock backwards, so that the deep part of the boat is in the deep part of the lock. The problem with that is that once through the lock, it's not possible to turn a boat longer than 60', so you then have a mile or so to do backwards to the next full length winding hole. An alternative solution is to forewarn the lock keeper, who will run extra water down in advance to get the level up below the lock. This has worked for us every time we've tried it (2'10" draft), but only Tina, the regular lock-keeper, will try it. If you get a relief, then they won't and you have go backwards.

 

You need to book passage 24 hours in advance anyway, but obviously Tina needs to know when you book if the boat is deep, so that she can run water in advance.

 

MP.

Edited December 2, 2014 by MoominPapa

[by'eck]

Have recently done this trip in a 60 foot nb. Apart from the warnings already mentioned there are some shallow sections on the Middle Levels, after Whittlesea and around Upwell/Outwell area if you have deep draught boat.

 

Salters Lode lock may not be such a problem as there is an outer reverse gate that allows longer boats to be accomodated at lower states of tide. Note though there are extensive works taking place and causing its closure from 5th Jan - 27th March 2015 inclusive - details downloadable here

[FadeToScarlet]

Yes, it's possible, fairly easily. We've done this and similar routes with our 72', 3' deep narrowboat. Brigatte Bend in Whittlesey isn't too hard, it's just a matter of taking it slow and being in the right posirion.

 

You could just about do it in 5 days, but 8 is much more liesurely.

 

I can recommend going down the Northampton flight in the morning, as it seems to empty itself during the day.

 

I can recommend tying up at Northampton marina, a very pleasant and secure place to explore the town from, and joining the newly formed Friends of the River Nene will give you access to several lovely moorings.

 

Definitely talk to Tina at Stanground, and Paul at Salters, about going through.

[Blazeaway]

Thanks to you all, mine is 2'10" draft, I am told, (how would you measure it I now wonder?) I also have a bow thruster which might be helpful.

Edited December 2, 2014 by frankpwilson

[starman]

Yes you can do it but if your boat is an old trad with a deep draft at the back end you may need to go through Stanground Lock backwards, like wise through Salter on level water.

 

We had to do that in our 55ft Harry as we are deep and the Level levels were low.

[Guest User]

Mrs Norton at Marmot Priory lock likes to receive a call in advance too .... if you're going all that way to get to Ely, it'd be worth allowing a few extra days to go across to Bedford via the Old West River, and the Cam to Bottisham/Waterbeach (short train trip from there into Cambridge, or pay the Cam Cons extra to navigate into the town).

 

LC x

[by'eck]

Thanks to you all, mine is 2'10" draft, I am told, (how would you measure it I now wonder?) I also have a bow thruster which might be helpful.

Wuithin an inch of mine. As suggested advance notice to Stanground will have them flood in a bit of extra water although less of an issue now.

 

You may be able to confirm draught by hooking the end of a tape measure over the rudder skeg and measuring to water level in weed hatch.

[ditchcrawler]

I also have a bow thruster which might be helpful.

Not a lot unless you do the mile backwards, then a piece of cake, at 2-10 you may just get through forwards but it would be a scrape. Hook the bottom of the rudder skeg wit a boat hoke and measure how much is underwater.

Edited December 2, 2014 by ditchcrawler

[dmr]

Its all true what they say!, The Brirgand bend is no big deal, at worse you might need to push the front round a bit with your pole (long shaft).

If you phone Stanground in advance they might adjust the levels for you to save the reverse, though this is all a bit unofficial.

Salters is fine but check the tides (phone the Lock-keeper), it can't always be done (by anyone) at some Neaps. The turn back into Salters is a bit tricky in a long boat. In fact there are a few potential tricky bits on this journey, some locks on the Nene are very close to weirs, there are some tightish bends and some evil bridges with low arches set at an angle to the river. If you are new to boating, and especially 70 foot boats, I would get a years experience before doing this trip, its well worth the wait. And choose a time when there is not too much flow!

 

...........Dave

[FadeToScarlet]

Not a lot unless you do the mile backwards, then a piece of cake, at 2-10 you may just get through forwards but it would be a scrape. Hook the bottom of the rudder skeg wit a boat hoke and measure how much is underwater.

We got through at 3' forwards with marry a scrape, after Tina raised the Middle Level for us.

 

The old part is deepest in the middle- i managed to get a 2'4" boat I was delivering stuck a little in stanground, by letting it drift too close to the side, and had to be flushed out.

[Blazeaway]

Great feedback thank you, we are planning to make this journey next May, I feel well informed now to go forward with the journey.

 

Cheers

[ditchcrawler]

We got through at 3' forwards with marry a scrape, after Tina raised the Middle Level for us.

 

The old part is deepest in the middle- i managed to get a 2'4" boat I was delivering stuck a little in stanground, by letting it drift too close to the side, and had to be flushed out.

Yes, I touched down first time I went through at 2-4 and not very close to the sides so it must be quite convex down there

[David Mack]

The first time Fulbourne went through Stanground, just after the lock was lengthened, they went through forwards, and grounded the stern on the bottom. A bit of welly on the throttle got the boat a few feet forward, to the point where it was firmly wedged on the bottom, and too far forwards to shut the bottom gates.

 

A lot of heaving and shoving and pulling on ropes was required to get the boat back in the lock, so it could be refilled, the boat spun around and taken through backwards.

 

I think Tina is a bit more cautious with deep drafed boats these days!

[CanalPlanAC]

Canal plan is clever enough to take into account your boat's length, and its width, but not clever enough to take into account combinations of length and width. Thus it will tell you that you cannot get round Briggate bend at Whittlesea if you are over 60ft simply because if you were 14ft wide that would be the limit. But it is not really much of a problem for a full length narrowboat, so sometimes you have to turn off boat dimensions in your preferences.

Guess what I've been working on?

 

I've worked out how to do it, and got most of the deep code done. Now it's the user interface to let people set such things (which always takes longer than the actual calculation coding).

 

What I'm doing is providing the ability to mark a place as a "pinch point" and give it dimensions smaller than those for the waterway. That will be a big improvement in itself, as it means that - say - the Chester Canal between Chester and Ellesmere Port can be restored to 14 foot with the motorway marked as a pinch point.

 

But the neat thing is that a pinch point can have multiple sets of dimensions. As long as you can fit one of them, then you can fit through. So for Whittlesey we can have 60 foot by 14 foot and 70 foot by 7 foot and a 65 footer will be "allowed" to pass if 7 feet wide but not more.

 

I've just recently added draught and headroom to the criteria you can use for planning. But the database is very sparse on data about these. If anyone feels like spending an idle hour on a winter evening ading these dimensions to the waterways it would be very much appreciated (and, obviously) useful to all.