Live aboards not residential.

[b0atman]

As a live aboard when in a Marina I do not consider myself a residential boater for the following reasons

1 I have no statuary right to my mooring space.

2 I spend a lot of time away from boat and marina.

3 I take the boat out for as much time as I can.

Now why do not marinas take this onboard and put a clause into their contracts that for example boat or mooring space cannot be occupied for say more than 300 days in a calendar year,

Residential this should incorporate a lease for the mooring and occupancy can be 100% of a calendar year probably to some rights to the area adjacent to the mooring.

 

[Delta9]

 

Now why do not marinas take this onboard and put a clause into their contracts that for example boat or mooring space cannot be occupied for say more than 300 days in a calendar year,

Residential this should incorporate a lease for the mooring and occupancy can be 100% of a calendar year probably to some rights to the area adjacent to the mooring.

 

What purpose would this serve and how would the marina enforce such rules?

[Alan de Enfield]

I'm not following the 'argument'.

 

You are a liveaboard, your boat is residential, the mooring is residential. You do not chooses to use your mooring conrinuously but that does not necessairly make it non-residential for the period you are away from it.

 

Dictionary definition :-

 

 

Adj. 1. residential - used or designed for residence or limited to residences; "a residential hotel"; "a residential quarter"; "a residential college"; "a residential boat"

 

 

As a live aboard when in a Marina I do not consider myself a residential boater for the following reasons

1 I have no statuary right to my mooring space. That does not affect the staus of the mooring - it is still residential

2 I spend a lot of time away from boat and marina. When you are not living aboard you are not a liveaboard

3 I take the boat out for as much time as I can. The boat is still residential, and you are still a liveaboard

 

Now why do not marinas take this onboard and put a clause into their contracts that for example boat or mooring space cannot be occupied for say more than 300 days in a calendar year, Then what about those who want to liveaboard on their residential boat, tied to their residential berth 365 days a year

 

Residential this should incorporate a lease for the mooring and occupancy can be 100% of a calendar year probably to some rights to the area adjacent to the mooring. What area ? - tied onto a finger pontoon with a boat 2 feet away from you.

 

 

It looks like you are expecting the marina to do customised contracts for each of its customers, and written to suit their boating, rather than the needs of the marina.

 

If you are not happy with your marina it is easy to move.

[Wanted]

I would suggest that further division would bring little to the party right now.

[Ssscrudddy]

I thought the residential aspect was all about planning permission (which has nothing to do with a marina/land owner turning a blind eye)

I have a residential mooring, I can moor there & live on the boat 365 days per year, I happen to have gone cruising for 7 weeks out of that time.

The boat next to me has a residential mooring & can do the same, but no one lives on it, in fact no one has yet stayed on the boat overnight.

Other boats in the same marina have 11 month moorings, they can live on their boat 11 months of the year, but they & the boat have to move out for 4 weeks each year.

[b0atman]

The argument is that some wish to have a mooring for work or family reasons which enables them to abide in that location the alternative is to become ccers there is no middle ground except for the turning of a blind eye .

[Gordias]

There's room for an "aggregator" to provide more flexible services, but I can't imagine anyone being interested unless/until the game of "musical moorings" stops.

[Bee]

Keep turning a blind eye, nothing to be gained by more rules.

[WJM]

 

Now why do not marinas take this onboard and put a clause into their contracts that for example boat or mooring space cannot be occupied for say more than 300 days in a calendar year,

 

 

They do. Mine does and so do many others.

[b0atman]

WJM so does my present marina I brought the topic up because too many are looking for Residential moorings when a live aboard mooring would suit .

Residential Boat Owners Association for example are pushing for more residential moorings (I am sending them an email letter.) whereas the live aboard option would probably suit

No planning permission required and comes within the law .

Myself I am out boating next April to October 6 months.

[WJM]

Residential moorings and live-aboard moorings are the same thing.

[b0atman]

No they are not just look at caravan sites with mobile homes the precedent is already there.

Some sites close for a period but some remain open because they have facilities shops clubs etc. these put the onus onto the caravan owners.

[magnetman]

Residential moorings and live-aboard moorings are the same thing.

 

I am under the impression that the term 'residential' is a legal term whereas the term 'liveaboard' is not, and there are definitely certain regulations about stay length on non residential moorings which are used by people who live aboard so I wouldn't say they are the same thing at all.

 

its all in the words so I suppose literally residential means you live aboard but the term 'liveaboard' also covers people who live on boats on long term 'leisure' moorings so it is clearly not the same as residential.

Edited November 24, 2014 by magnetman

[WJM]

In my marina some moorings have a telephone line and a massive electricity hook-up. Others have no phone line and a thin electric point. Work that one out!

[Alan de Enfield]

WJM so does my present marina I brought the topic up because too many are looking for Residential moorings when a live aboard mooring would suit .

 

I'm still having problems with this concept - would you be kind enough to define what a "Liveaboard Mooring" is, or offers that a residential mooring does not.

 

Residential mooring :-

A long-term mooring which has the local authority’s permission for it to be used as the occupant’s sole or primary residence. The residential mooring may or may not have facilities and services.

 

Liveaboard Mooring :

 

?????????????

[bottle]

A restricted residential mooring

 

I may have this wrong but I think it may all be in the naming

 

Residential is as Alan states but perhaps the 'live aboard' is, as mentioned, like a lot of 'static/ park homes' they can only be used for a restricted time and usually empty for 2 weeks of the year.

 

Now I have not checked but I think it is something to do with planning and/or council tax.

[magnetman]

I was looking at moorings in central Paris and there are definitely people 'living' there. The regulations stated that the boat had to be away from the mooring for a certain amount of time, something like 10% of a year or something. Not sure exactly what it was. and it was France so not that relevant I suppose but maybe a similar thing can be done here?

 

I'm sure there are different planning regs for moorings which are used permanently 365 days a year as opposed to those which are used for say 10 months. the other way of looking at it may be 'winter moorings'

 

WJM - Assuming you are in Brentford, I thought it was straightforward that they have Residential and Leisure moorings? presumably if someone lives on one of the leisure moorings 365 days a year then something may be said at some stage by other residents ?

[Alan de Enfield]

The Caravan / Mobile Home "leisure" usage is very similar to a "leisure mooring" but more draconian.

 

We own a Mobile Home "Caravan Park" which we built from scratch so I am familiar with the planning issues.

 

You need Planning Permission to open a Caravan Park - just as you do to open a marina.

When you apply for PP you specify if you want "Residential" or "Leisure".

 

Despite what we wanted, we were only granted "leisure" as to grant Residential usage in the Green-Belt would be contrary to planning guidelines.

 

As with any planning permission "conditions" are specified as part of the approval, apart from fencing and planting approved "trees and shrubs" (approved by the council) the two conditions relevant to this discussion are :

 

1) The park is to be closed for a minimum of 1 calender month (we could decide the month and choose Jan 3rd to Feb 4th). Closed means that the water and electricity are disconnected, people are allowed to vist their Vans for maintenance etc but cannot stay the night.

 

2) The "Leisure" planning permission means that the owners may not stay in their caravans for extended periods and examples such as "weekends and short holidays - of 2 to 3 weeks" are given. Staying for the whole of the Summer period is not allowed and the Site licence would be removed.

 

3) The council has the right to determine what is "excessive leisure use"

 

There has been an example recently of a caravan park in Yorkshire which is in the process of being closed because residents were allowed to live on site - most of them are elderly, and had sold their homes to buy the vans - they are now being made homeless.

 

Residents at Lakeminster Park near Beverley were told they could not live in their properties all year round as planning permission was only granted for the properties to be holiday homes.

Retrospective planning permission was rejected by East Riding of Yorkshire Council in May.

 

The developer William Flannigan said: "We feel this imminent threat of enforcement action on our residents is unnecessary, putting added worry onto older people.

"We are trying to find a solution and hope that this enforcement action will be reconsidered."

Resident David Foulstone said: "The council know nobody on this site can buy another home.

"If the council decide to enforce that could lead to the wholesale homelessness of 125 people."

 

Coming back to Marinas'

 

Dangerous I know - but I assume that there are similar conditions put onto marinas - You either have "Residential" planning permission, or you have "Leisure" planning permission - maybe different councils put on slightly different conditions, or maybe the interpretation of the conditions by the marina owner is 'variable' and comes back to the 'blind-eye' system.

 

As I said previously I cannot imagine what a "liveaboard" mooring is and how it would fit into the planning definitions - maybe - if it is your primary residence (ie you live aboard and have no house) then it is residential, but if it is not your primary residence (but you live aboard) then it is not residential.

 

BWML recently reviewed and revised their multitude of mooring categories into just two :

1) Residential

2) Leisure.

 

The definition of 'leisure' is that they "expect heavy usage" and you can stay aboard 365 days per year but you must provide them with a copy of a council tax bill in your name and for the address where your mail etc is sent. If you have such a CT bill then obviously the boat is not your primary residence.

 

If you cannot provide such evidence then you are "residential"

 

Boatman - if that is your idea of a "liveaboard" mooring, maybe you should change marina.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Alan de Enfield

[Traveller]

A restricted residential mooring

 

I may have this wrong but I think it may all be in the naming

 

Residential is as Alan states but perhaps the 'live aboard' is, as mentioned, like a lot of 'static/ park homes' they can only be used for a restricted time and usually empty for 2 weeks of the year.

 

Now I have not checked but I think it is something to do with planning and/or council tax.

If my mates caravan park is anything to go by (and it is a 48 week occupancy), they are still leisure homes, not residential, and to own one the occupier must have a fixed address elsewhere - it is a holiday home only. Mind you the site owners take absolutely no real interest and there are many there that live on site for 48 weeks and then go off somewhere for the weeks during which the park is closed. If the council find out the park could loose its license.

 

Beaten to it by A de E

Edited November 24, 2014 by Traveller

[Alan de Enfield]

If my mates caravan park is anything to go by (and it is a 48 week occupancy), they are still leisure homes, not residential, and to own one the occupier must have a fixed address elsewhere - it is a holiday home only. Mind you the site owners take absolutely no real interest and there are many there that live on site for 48 weeks and then go off somewhere for the weeks during which the park is closed. If the council find out the park could loose its license.

 

Beaten to it by A de E

 

Thanks - I'd forgotten that bit. The council reserve the right during an inspection to view the list of "primary residence" addresses for each of the Vans owners.

[bottle]

So I was not far off but thank you Alan and Traveller for making it absolutely clear.

[magnetman]

I've seen boats advertised with 'pied a terre' moorings. I suppose this is the same sort of 'not residential but you can live there a bit' arrangement ? I think there might be some of these around Little Venice and Regents Park

[ditchcrawler]

If my mates caravan park is anything to go by (and it is a 48 week occupancy), they are still leisure homes, not residential, and to own one the occupier must have a fixed address elsewhere - it is a holiday home only. Mind you the site owners take absolutely no real interest and there are many there that live on site for 48 weeks and then go off somewhere for the weeks during which the park is closed. If the council find out the park could loose its license.

 

Beaten to it by A de E

So what if someone bowl up to a caravan park in there motor home and stays for 3 months in May June July then clears off to Cornwall stopping here there and every where July and Augusts then nips off to Spain until next spring. Is he resident on that camp site in the summer.of is it a leisure pitch. That is nearer to a boaters use as the OP set out.

 

I am not arguing, I don't know so just asking.

[Alan de Enfield]

I've seen boats advertised with 'pied a terre' moorings. I suppose this is the same sort of 'not residential but you can live there a bit' arrangement ? I think there might be some of these around Little Venice and Regents Park

Pied a terre is a description of the 'property' and has no relation to residential planning permission or otherwise.

 

A pied-à-terre (French pronunciation: ​[pjetaˈtɛʁ]; French for "foot on the ground") is a small living unit usually located in a large city

[magnetman]

Its ok I speak perfect French

 

I thought it was a way (in english) of saying the mooring was not residential. Maybe its just a way to make it sound more impressive ?

 

Maybe it is a description of the size of the mooring