Wooden NB Alice

[X Alan W]

During the time I hotel boated, my agent being Harry Machin at Holidys Afloat at Mk Drayton there was the wooden Narrow boat 'Alice' which i understood was ex Henry Seddons moored there owned at that time by Alan Edmed Has any one any knowledge of what became of it? I would presume it was broken up as it seemed pretty tired back then?

[Laurence Hogg]

During the time I hotel boated, my agent being Harry Machin at Holidys Afloat at Mk Drayton there was the wooden Narrow boat 'Alice' which i understood was ex Henry Seddons moored there owned at that time by Alan Edmed Has any one any knowledge of what became of it? I would presume it was broken up as it seemed pretty tired back then?

 

"Alice" was an ex Meakin boat built by the Anderton Company but converted from a horse boat, the dock record indicates a 1923 rebuild date. I was commissioned to build a model of this boat when I traded as "Inland Waterways Models Co" and looked at it at Market Drayton, it was in a terrible state. I would imagine it met its fate around the mid to late 1970's, when going north up the SU in 1979 it was gone then. Beautiful boat when trading, shame so many of the "Knobsticks" have been lost leaving us with a polarised view of working boats for the newcomers who only think of Joshers or GU types most of the time.

 

edited for owner name error - thanks Pete

Edited November 24, 2014 by Laurence Hogg

[X Alan W]

 

"Alice" was an ex Seddons boat built by the Anderton Company but converted from a horse boat, the dock record indicates a 1923 rebuild date. I was commissioned to build a model of this boat when I traded as "Inland Waterways Models Co" and looked at it at Market Drayton, it was in a terrible state. I would imagine it met its fate around the mid to late 1970's, when going north up the SU in 1979 it was gone then. Beautiful boat when trading, shame so many of the "Knobsticks" have been lost leaving us with a polarised view of working boats for the newcomers who only think of Joshers or GU types most of the time.

Thanks for that Laurence I sort of guessed that would have been it's fate I left the cut in1972 & in 67 it was badly hogged & the bilge pump/s were cutting in every 30 minutes or so & running for around 5 minutes, & i guess got no TLC or repairs so would guess by the time of your time estimate it would have been at that time uneconomical to repair, as at that time there were still a good supply of ex working craft around, as an aside BW required it moving in IIRC 69 to enable them to dredge the basin I was asked to tow it to the towpath side, & despite taking the towline around both dollies i pulled 1 out completely & the other to almost horizontal so sad even then.

[Carl Ryan]

Are there any other knobsticks left apart from Sweden.

 

Carl

[Paul H]

Yes.

 

 

Dane, Dorset, Spain/Bedford...

 

Paul

[stagedamager]

The knees from the 'Avon' are at Jem Bates'.

[Laurence Hogg]

Yes.

 

 

Dane, Dorset, Spain/Bedford...

 

Paul

Dont forget "Sweden" is a knobstick proper (in as much as it retains many original features) and what about "Walton"? Also the mortal remains of "Silver Jubilee" lie at Keays dock with Anderton Company horse boats "Rose" and "Anne" lying just after Pratts Bridge on the Wyrley, "Rose" is still sound (well at least the three bottom planks are!).

Edited November 23, 2014 by Laurence Hogg

[Derek R.]

Dare I mention SATURN? Or is that Trigger's broom . . .

[Laurence Hogg]

Dare I mention SATURN? Or is that Trigger's broom . . .

The "Saturn" project is to me a misrepresentation on todays waterway scene imho.

Quote from their website:

"Saturn is a unique canal narrowboat. She is the last horse-drawn Shropshire Union Canal Fly-boat in the World – originally built to travel non-stop, day and night, carrying perishable goods. Over 100 years old, she has been fully restored to her former glory; not only to preserve her for posterity but to educate present and future generations about our waterways, narrowboats and horse-boating."

 

The society allowed the two full length unconverted SUCC boats "Symbol" and "Saturn" to rot to the point of no return, they broke "Symbol"up and built a virtually new boat from the remains of "Saturn" using recovered parts! Not exactly a restoration in many peoples eyes.

Just like the "Raymond" this is effectively a new boat.

 

There are however remaining ex SUCCo boats still part original, ie "Clara" and "Dragonfly" (formerly "Swallow of Leonard Leighs, Townsend as SUCCo boat). There may be others too, certainly other complete examples remain buried and or sunk.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Laurence Hogg

[Pluto]

Having worked on Saturn alongside Tim Leech back in the early 1970s, there was not that much remaining of the 'original' boat then, and I would consider my work on the hull anything but traditional.

 

Symbol barely made it to the drydock at Trevor without sinking, and was in need of completely being rebuilt before the society took over. Neither boat was suitable for 'restoration' and both could only be used as a guide to building a replica. In fact, any wooden boat surviving today will have gone through some form of rebuilding at least two or three times in its 'life', with work done post-commercial days probably of a non-traditional form.

 

It does beg the question, what is original, and if you are looking at historic wooden boats, there is going to be little of real historic value surviving. Even the shape will have changed to some extent during earlier rebuilding. Given the cost and problems in conserving historic canal craft, there is always going to be some form of compromise made, and as someone with no link to the Saturn group, but who has been involved in industrial and canal heritage conservation for many years, they seem to me to be doing quite a good job (even if it is just a narrowboat, and not something really significant like a short boat).

[Derek R.]

I dunno, you Northerners and your floating bath tubs . . . .

Edited November 24, 2014 by Derek R.

[pete harrison]

 

"Alice" was an ex Seddons boat built by the Anderton Company but converted from a horse boat, the dock record indicates a 1923 rebuild date.

I understood ALICE was a motor conversion for J. & G. Meakin Ltd., Hanley - health registered as Stoke on Trent 958 on 01 June 1944. The Stoke on Trent health register states that the horse boat that this motor conversion was built from was previously health registered as Stoke on Trent 890, which can be dated to 1926.

 

A photograph of J. &G Meakin Ltd.'s ALICE is published on page 25 of Robert Wilson's booklet KNOBSTICKS.

Edited November 24, 2014 by pete harrison

[Pluto]

I dunno, you Northerners and your floating bath tubs . . . .

Sorry, mine doesn't float as it has too much coal in it.

[stagedamager]

Not one to drag up an old thread.......

Does anyone know the current location of the Spain?

 

Dan

[pete harrison]

26 minutes ago, stagedamager said:

Not one to drag up an old thread.......

Does anyone know the current location of the Spain?

 

Dan

SPAIN was one of a number of redundant narrow boats sunk by 'British Waterways' in the flashes around Broken Cross during the early 1960's, and there are published photographs as evidence of this. There is a possibility that the derelict hulk removed by Ian Riley in the 1980's and restored a few ago could be SPAIN, although it could be one of a few 

[stagedamager]

Thanks Pete.

That's as I remember it, so I should rephrase.... Does anyone know the whereabouts of the boat which may or may not be the Spain!!

 

 

[Paul H]

Dutton on the Trent and Mersey.

 

Paul

[stagedamager]

Thanks Paul. On the offside?

[Paul H]

Yes I believe it’s on the offside salvaged, restored and owned by Ian Riley and paired with Byfield.

 

Paul

[stagedamager]

Thanks Paul. Perfect! I hope you're well..

 

Dan

[billh]

I think Spain is at the south end of Barnton tunnel, it used to be near Dutton. I noted them (assume Byfield as well) late last year  at Barnton,. Perhaps they moved back  more recently? 

[Paul H]

Yes you’re  probably right.  I was remembering pictures of the boats high and dry because of the Dutton breach but that was a few years back.

 

i think this is Spain at Barnton.

 

 

[pete harrison]

3 hours ago, Paul H said:

Yes you’re  probably right.  I was remembering pictures of the boats high and dry because of the Dutton breach but that was a few years back.

 

i think this is Spain at Barnton.

The pair in the foreground are FORNAX and BYFIELD, and the boat behind is 'SPAIN'. I am afraid I have no idea what the pleasure boat is.

 

I photographed the small Northwich butty PUPPIS at this location on 11 October 1992, resplendent in the red, yellow and green F.M.C. Ltd. livery