Newbie choosing mooring + heating GRP cruiser winter

[Phil Ambrose]

Yes but if you maintain your petrol engine and follow proper fuel storage and refuelling procedure there is no reason why a petrol engined boat can not be used safely. There are enough of them around, many having been so for 40+ years, to prove that point.

Very true but the fact remains, as a fuel petrol is inherently more of a risk than diesel, this, I think was the point being made.

Phil

[Naughty Cal]

Very true but the fact remains, as a fuel petrol is inherently more of a risk than diesel, this, I think was the point being made.

Phil

No. The point being made was that petrol engined boats are unsafe. Which in itself just isnt true.

 

Poor management of them is unsafe, but how can you legislate for stupidity?

 

That doesnt mean that all petrol powered boats are unsafe. Far from it as is proven by the many thousand who manage to use their boats without setting them on fire.

[Tony Brooks]

The BSS will not allow gas fridges (and other things with naked flames) on petrol boats for good reason. Personally I would never have a solid fuel stove on a petrol boat, just to clarify a point tony the first two lines of your reply, do you mean any petrol propelled boat or specifically inboard petrol,s

 

I think it is all petrol boats and in my view should include diesel boats that carry petrol generators as well. As OB petrol tanks can usually be refuelled off the boat and any problems on the engine tends to result in fuel and fumes falling overboard I think OB powered boats are safer than petrol inboard ones but that still leaves the idiot factor as a danger.

 

 

PS Not going to say much about the NC stance on this. The BSS says it all for those who wish to know.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Tony Brooks

[John V]

No. The point being made was that petrol engined boats are unsafe. Which in itself just isnt true.

 

Poor management of them is unsafe, but how can you legislate for stupidity?

 

That doesnt mean that all petrol powered boats are unsafe. Far from it as is proven by the many thousand who manage to use their boats without setting them on fire.

 

 

NO !!!

 

The point was being made that petrol vapour can cause an EXPLOSION! ..... and therefore needs to be treated with a great deal of care......The boat I saw had no gas on board so that could not be a contributing cause. Most of the cabin was blown off in the explosion. The owner was thrown into the sea and I am not sure if he actually died from burns or from shock or from drowning.

 

The investigation afterwards concluded that there had been a petrol leak from an unknown source and the vapour in the bilges had been ignited when some electrical item had been switched on.

 

None of this could have happened if there was no petrol on board

 

If there is petrol on board a boat vigilance is essential.

[Alan de Enfield]

 

 

I would prefer diesel but if i end up with petrol ( and a petrol freeman is literally half the price) then through winter leave no petrol in it might be an answer !

 

 

 

Why would a petrol powered Freeman be half the price of a diesel Freeman ?

 

Apart from (I think) one poster here the concensus of people with many many years experience. marine engineers and C&RT (via the BSS safety scheme) seem to think that Petrol gives issues, given the choice, are best avoided

[Naughty Cal]

 

 

NO !!!

 

The point was being made that petrol vapour can cause an EXPLOSION! ..... and therefore needs to be treated with a great deal of care......The boat I saw had no gas on board so that could not be a contributing cause. Most of the cabin was blown off in the explosion. The owner was thrown into the sea and I am not sure if he actually died from burns or from shock or from drowning.

 

The investigation afterwards concluded that there had been a petrol leak from an unknown source and the vapour in the bilges had been ignited when some electrical item had been switched on.

 

None of this could have happened if there was no petrol on board

 

If there is petrol on board a boat vigilance is essential.

No bilge blowers fitted or used then?

 

Again bad management.

[kevinl]

No bilge blowers fitted or used then?

 

Again bad management.

Posted 16 September 2014 - 12:22 PM

Hardly

 

No cabin fever in this camp.

 

The irony of the topic you started about Cabin Fever. I was only a matter of time before the rows started, again.

K

[Naughty Cal]

Why?

 

For pointing out that bilge blowers should be used?

 

Thats not cabin fever. Its common sense. We use them on our diesel boat.

[Mrs Tawny Owl]

Yes of course petrol boats can and do exist, and be used safely.

 

And Diesel boats do sometimes catch fire, but I don't personally know of any that have been caused by the deisel or engine igniting, usually it seems to be the solid fuel fire, or electrical or gas faults that start it.

The presence of a spark with diesel isn't a hugh problem, the presence of a spark with petrol vapour is.

 

You say bilge blowers should be used. I'm sure in the right circumstances you are correct, I also don't know of any narrow boats with one, and if I was thinking of a grp boat I wouldn't, without knowing to ask the right question on here, know they exist or should be used. (I do now of course)

 

Therefore I would be at more danger on a petrol boat because I wasn't using it correctly.

 

We are coming up to the known unknowns and unknown unknowns here aren't we?

If I don't know about something, and don't know it should be present and used, then am I fair game for being blown up because I didn't do the right thing, and deserve no pity.

 

Not all boats have or need the same equipment, and I'm sure many of us have done something wrong, or omitted something important at the start of our boating careers and got away with it. It's just that some situations are more tollerant of mistakes and ignorance than others.

 

Sue

[John V]

No bilge blowers fitted or used then?

 

Again bad management.

 

Actually it was a sailing yacht......I never said a word about petrol engines....don't jump to conclusions

 

 

and I don't want to do the same... so I will ask the question are your bilge blowers installed because you cook by gas?

Edited September 18, 2014 by John V

[David Mack]

No. The point being made was that petrol engined boats are unsafe. Which in itself just isnt true.

 

Poor management of them is unsafe, but how can you legislate for stupidity?

Well of course you can't. But its just that when the owners of diesel powered boats are stupid, the consequences are generally (but not always) a lot less severe.

[craftycarper]

I think it is all petrol boats and in my view should include diesel boats that carry petrol generators as well. As OB petrol tanks can usually be refuelled off the boat and any problems on the engine tends to result in fuel and fumes falling overboard I think OB powered boats are safer than petrol inboard ones but that still leaves the idiot factor as a danger.

 

 

PS Not going to say much about the NC stance on this. The BSS says it all for those who wish to know.

. Cheers for the reply tony, the reason I ask is that I have a rinnai water heater that has a pilot light and a petrol outboard it's been through many bss,s like this and has never been raised as an issue

[Tony Brooks]

. Cheers for the reply tony, the reason I ask is that I have a rinnai water heater that has a pilot light and a petrol outboard it's been through many bss,s like this and has never been raised as an issue

 

Well at least it is a high level pilot light so will normally be well above any accidental petrol vapour (until someone walks about and stirs it up).

 

To be honest unless a qualified BSS examiner posts on this topic you would do well to email the BSS office and ask.

[Phil Ambrose]

Just thought I'd mentionfor the benefit of Mrs T.O, my NB does have a bilge blower which serves the main boat bilge but not the engine 'ole. This means any gas (in the event of a leak) can safely be extracted.

Phil

[John V]

I have bilge blowers on my cruiser as that has gas but none on the barge as there is no gas or petrol on board.

 

edit to remove repeated phrase

Edited September 18, 2014 by John V

[craftycarper]

Well at least it is a high level pilot light so will normally be well above any accidental petrol vapour (until someone walks about and stirs it up).

 

To be honest unless a qualified BSS examiner posts on this topic you would do well to email the BSS office and ask.

. I think the answer has to be in the manner in which the fuel is stored, rather than what is on your boat, you had me a little bit worried as I do have the deadly combo of wood-burner, gas and petrol on board, though I do consider myself a little anal over the way I treat these things (though I don't have any bilge blowers ) one other thing as this seems to have become a bit of a petrol versus diesel thread I would be interested in the number of boat fires/explosions caused by gas leak,s as I always assumed this was the most common cause of these kind of accidents and boats with gas on board are more prolific than petrol/ diesel propelled boats as both use gas ?

[Phil Ambrose]

Now then Craftycarper, nothing wrong with being anal in the way you claim to be, I call it sensible.

Phil

[Tony Brooks]

Since the BSS was introduced any form of explosion on a boat is rare. I do not have any figures to back this up but I suspect more inland boat fires are caused by solid fuel stoves or electrical faults than gas leaks. However gas and petrol both lead to an increased risk of an explosion if they are not well maintained or the operator has a laps/is not fully aware of the dangers.

 

I have only been able to find 2006 figures for fires on boat from the BSS but those show a total of 74 fires and explosions out of how many thousand boats. Of those 36 could not be attributed to any cause. Electrical caused 9, LPG 6, Solid fuel stoves 5, and petrol 3. On that score petrol is safer than LPG. However arson accounted for 8 so you have more chance of your boat being set on fire than from any other cause apart from electrical.

 

I feel it would be instructive to see the latest figures because the BSS has been altered over the last few years. However the numbers are exceptionally small when compared with the total number of boats registered.

 

Remember those figures are for waters where the boats are subject to the BSS yet my own inexpedience on the Thames shows that petrol boats with faults that present a danger to others are still slipping through the net. Every time I use the Thames I smell boats with petrol faults, I rarely smell boats with gas faults on any part of the system.

[craftycarper]

Now then Craftycarper, nothing wrong with being anal in the way you claim to be, I call it sensible.

Phil

cheers phil I totally agree, I guess the thing is that familiarity breeds contempt and after a year of removing the fuel tank walking a safe distance from the boat filling it with fuel then leaving it were it is for half an hour for any spilled liquid to evaporate, people start to think oh just this once I,ll fill it were it is then when that goes ok it becomes the norm, likewise I shut the gas off at source every time I leave the boat even if I'm off up the shops for an hour which many boat owners may do for the first six months or year then start to think oh it's ok I,ll leave it on it's not leaked before, but in my eyes you never get a second chance so treat it like you did when you started and never allow complacency to creep in.There ends my sensible moment for now

[Collie]

As someone who is slightly older than you and spent my first 30 years in Norfolk I an assure you that petrol boats on the b Broads catching fire were a big problem, even today the BSC doesn't permit gas fridges in petrol powered boats unless they are room sealed, and that includes outboard powered ones with the fuel on the outside. Inboard petrol engines really need full engine/bilge blowers working before the engine is started to be considered anywhere near safe IMO.

And is your insurance more for a thatched property and why do local fire brigades keep a register of them?

and how many did they have to start with, to end up with one?

[Phil Ambrose]

and how many did they have to start with, to end up with one?

?

Phil

[kevinl]

Don't try and live on a GRP in the winter you'll die either fro CO poisoning or hypothermia.

Unless you have an army style winter survival kit or some massively expensive air blown, timer controlled, fuel burning heating system (like Nasty Cal for example) then get a cheap narrowboat and get on with it. Any small GRP with a fire is a danger too, petrol does burn much easier than say diesel or witches or indeed carrots.

Contrary to the lyrics of the song Barbie Girl by Aqua "life in plastic" is anything but "fantastic" in winter unless you have the right kit in which case it's fine, so unless you're wadded and the heating bills don't matter and you're happy to be hooked up in a marina give it a miss get a tent there won't be much difference.

Owners of massively expensive well equipped GRP marina based boats and Ex owners of Norfolk Broads cruisers both of which I envy you for owning need not comment on my reply as it's meant for the OP's world not yours, remember the phrase "It isn't all about me" when you post and keep on topic, bragging it's that an attractive thing to do.

K

[Phil Ambrose]

Well despite your request not to post I would just like to say what a lot of old tosh it is that I've just read about GRP, cannot be bothered to comment on individual comments and also your "Nasty Cal" remark was uncalled for.

Phil

[Naughty Cal]

What a load of utter bull.

[Phil Ambrose]

Kevini has just shown the world that bigotry is alive and well on CWDF it appears he has manage to dredge up all the bias that he has in his being and posted it obviously without a scrap of first hand knowledge of living on a GRP boat, complete and utter rubbish.

Phil