Newbie choosing mooring + heating GRP cruiser winter

[hertsmas]

Lo all, here goes. I'm getting closer to buying a cruiser on the Stort.

I now have a couple of choices before choosing a possible mooring and they aren't exactly plentiful round here.

 

Any useful comments re my current choices would be most welcome.

 

1) I have a nice warm house but would like to spend two or three nights midweek on the boat when working in London , i.e fall of the train in to the boat

how do you keep your GRP boat warm in winter even if you aren't using it presumably you leave a small amount of heat on to protect it from frost anyway. ?

 

2) How big an issue might lack of mains be, I'm thinking that if nothing else it would be very handy re item one above.

 

3) Pontoon mooring with power or much prettier grassy banked marina mooring with no power.

I know its all personal but folk here may have experiences of both and I havn't , I'm looking for a 22 to 27 foot cruiser but feel I need to secure a mooring 1st

as I can clearly get a far better deal off of the Stort and ship the boat in.

 

4) Is petrol really a big deal , as diesel cruisers are far harder to come buy and far more expensive. I prefer Diesel plus I understand you cant buy petrol

on the stort and then there's the safety issue.

 

 

Regards

 

Mas

 

[Naughty Cal]

We use our cruiser much as you are describing for between three and five nights a week year round.

 

We heat it with blown air diesel heating which keeps it toasty warm throughout the year.

 

With regards petrol or diesel engines, we chose diesel as the fuel is easy to come by waterside and you dont use as much of it.

 

As for power supply or not. Are the boats you are looking at raw water cooled. If they are you will need to protect the coolers from freezing during the winter. We do this by leaving tube heaters in the engine bay. They need a reliable 230v power supply. If you dont have this you have a lot of draining down to do. We also leave small heaters in the cabin to protect plumbing from freezing.

[Alan de Enfield]

1) GRP cruisers tend to have no insulation (or at best a very minimal amount) What sort of heating are you considering leaving running on the boat whilst you are away for 3 or 4 days ?

 

You will not be able to leave a 'wood' burner - it wont run for ling enough

 

You will not be able to use an electric heater (even if its a small 500w heater set on a thermostat - if the temp erature gets down low then the heater will be running continuously as the heat you generate will be lost thru the GRP. a 500w (220v) heater will be drawing about 50 amps from a battery via an inverter - totally flat batteries in a couple of hours ?

 

DIesel heater ? as the boat you are looking at is petrol you will therefore need to install a diesel tank. Diesel heater also use electricity so not a good option.

 

2) A huge issue.

 

3) Any secure mooring with electricity.

 

4) Petrol is a big-deal thats why petrol boats are so much cheaper - no one wants to be carrying 5lt cans of petrol miles down the towpath. Plus + safety issues, storage and BSS requirements.

 

Remember - wherever you moor you are going to need access to a water tap, gas supplies and toilet emptying facilities. (British Rail may not be too keen on you taking the 'potty' on the train to empty.

 

Are you loking at this as a 'cheap crash pad' to save going 'home' during the week ?

[Naughty Cal]

1) GRP cruisers tend to have no insulation (or at best a very minimal amount) What sort of heating are you considering leaving running on the boat whilst you are away for 3 or 4 days ?

 

You will not be able to leave a 'wood' burner - it wont run for ling enough

 

You will not be able to use an electric heater (even if its a small 500w heater set on a thermostat - if the temp erature gets down low then the heater will be running continuously as the heat you generate will be lost thru the GRP. a 500w (220v) heater will be drawing about 50 amps from a battery via an inverter - totally flat batteries in a couple of hours ?

 

DIesel heater ? as the boat you are looking at is petrol you will therefore need to install a diesel tank. Diesel heater also use electricity so not a good option.

 

2) A huge issue.

 

3) Any secure mooring with electricity.

 

4) Petrol is a big-deal thats why petrol boats are so much cheaper - no one wants to be carrying 5lt cans of petrol miles down the towpath. Plus + safety issues, storage and BSS requirements.

 

Remember - wherever you moor you are going to need access to a water tap, gas supplies and toilet emptying facilities. (British Rail may not be too keen on you taking the 'potty' on the train to empty.

 

Are you loking at this as a 'cheap crash pad' to save going 'home' during the week ?

Damn. I had better tell that to 200 or so owners of petrol boats in our marina alone

[hertsmas]

Thanks for the replies so far. It does tend to support my feeling that though the nice grassy pretty mooring i have a chance of is nicer , it doesn't have the electric and that's a real winter issue.

 

As for insulation I keep reading people saying that but i love the look of the classic Freeman 22/23 and they are supposed to actually have some as far as im' told being like a mini Rolls Royce of cruisers ?

 

I am considering a marina mooring that's pontoon based such as is available at Roydon , not so pretty as the other one potentially available but more secure and

it has the electric to leave a low heat on through the winter for frost protection etc. this is why im canvasing info from folk who have learned from their experiences.

 

Re the nosey question , If I wanted 'just' a cheap crash pad I'd get a camper van far less hassle than a boat , yes I would use it for that sometimes without a doubt but my boys are very keen outdoor folk and very keen on me getting a boat for the family and they say it HAS to be one they can weekend on Thus the boat as my boys come first in everything.

 

I used to have a boat ( only 18ft) before having children but have waited until they are older to consider another one.

 

 

Cheers !

[Naughty Cal]

You wont go far wrong with a Freeman. Classic, well built boats that hold their money well.

 

Not sure how well insulated they are mind. I can ask about in the boat club at the weekend though as plenty of the members there have them and have done so for many years.

[hertsmas]

Thanks just to throw another , does anyone recommend any boat insurer for a quote that is popular re small/meduim grp cruisers ?

 

Regards Mas

[Naughty Cal]

Navigators and General

[Alan de Enfield]

Damn. I had better tell that to 200 or so owners of petrol boats in our marina alone

 

According to Buton Waters literature they have 200 moorings.

 

If you think that virtually every boat there is petrol powered, I'd suggest you re-consider.

[hertsmas]

Cor blimey I had hoped that boating folk sticked together this is only my first real visit

[hertsmas]

I just did a quote for small craft insurance with them it was 135 a year, I haven't actually read the policy guide yet though but just wanted to know that insurance wasn't prohibitive.

 

Thanks

[Naughty Cal]

 

According to Buton Waters literature they have 200 moorings.

 

If you think that virtually every boat there is petrol powered, I'd suggest you re-consider.

200 berths in the marina. There are another 300 plus houses with private moorings

I just did a quote for small craft insurance with them it was 135 a year, I haven't actually read the policy guide yet though but just wanted to know that insurance wasn't prohibitive.

 

Thanks

Marine insurance is relatively cheap.

 

We pay £183 for a full coastal policy which is more expensive than an inland only policy.

 

We currently insure with Allianz.

[cereal tiller]

1) GRP cruisers tend to have no insulation (or at best a very minimal amount) What sort of heating are you considering leaving running on the boat whilst you are away for 3 or 4 days ?

 

You will not be able to leave a 'wood' burner - it wont run for ling enough

 

You will not be able to use an electric heater (even if its a small 500w heater set on a thermostat - if the temp erature gets down low then the heater will be running continuously as the heat you generate will be lost thru the GRP. a 500w (220v) heater will be drawing about 50 amps from a battery via an inverter - totally flat batteries in a couple of hours ?

 

DIesel heater ? as the boat you are looking at is petrol you will therefore need to install a diesel tank. Diesel heater also use electricity so not a good option.

 

2) A huge issue.

 

3) Any secure mooring with electricity.

 

4) Petrol is a big-deal thats why petrol boats are so much cheaper - no one wants to be carrying 5lt cans of petrol miles down the towpath. Plus + safety issues, storage and BSS requirements.

 

Remember - wherever you moor you are going to need access to a water tap, gas supplies and toilet emptying facilities. (British Rail may not be too keen on you taking the 'potty' on the train to empty.

 

Are you loking at this as a 'cheap crash pad' to save going 'home' during the week

 

 

Agree with all that Alan has stated

 

with regards to the Freeman 23 ,nearly all of them are petrol powered and the engine projects halfway into the cabin,it is not fully behind the Bulkhead.

 

When a G.R.P. Cruiser burns out on the Thames it will invariably be a petrol Inboard one!

 

For winter use of this type of cruiser a 230 volt shoreline would be essential.

 

CT

[Naughty Cal]

 

When a G.R.P. Cruiser burns out on the Thames it will invariably be a petrol Inboard one!

 

For winter use of this type of cruiser a 230 volt shoreline would be essential.

 

CT

So diesel boats never burn out?

 

There is some tosh spoken on this forum sometimes.

 

If petrol inboards are so prone to spontaneous combustion how have so many older boats fitted with them survived?

[hertsmas]

It's a bit like people think Thatched houses are prone to burning down ... however then one I own is thatched and its over 400 years old which kind of contradicts that

 

I would prefer diesel but if i end up with petrol ( and a petrol freeman is literally half the price) then through winter leave no petrol in it might be an answer !

 

I am erring towards the mooring with electric though.

 

Two descent tube heaters would keep the frost at bay I suspect and they don't exactly eat too much electric.

[craftycarper]

I have a grp boat with a petrol outboard, I have a woodburner that I use when aboard and leave an oil filled electric rad with a temp stat set low running all winter, if it's not cold it's off but if the temp drops I don't have to worry about rushing up and draining the water, it's also a bit nicer when you arrive not to be stepping into a fridge and waiting for the fire to get warm,it uses between twenty and thirty quid of electric through the winter depending on the temp obviously and yes I am on 240 hook up hope that helps a bit

[craftycarper]

P.s my friend has a 22 freeman and he also uses an oil filled electric rad it's a really small one from Argos and it keeps his boat toastie all winter also another thumbs up for the freeman, I think it's like an old jag inside with all the lovely wood and very well made really thick grp and quality fittings good luck

[Tony Brooks]

The BSS will not allow gas fridges (and other things with naked flames) on petrol boats for good reason. Personally I would never have a solid fuel stove on a petrol boat, especially an older one with a Ford or Austin based engine (Freemans tend to have Fords). The reason is that far too many have dodgy needle valves in the carburettor and well worn throttle spindle. This means each time they stop, and sometimes when on tick over, fuel leaks out of the throttle spindle and the vapours end up in the bilge.

 

It is clear that the danger from petrol vapour is not well understood by many boaters judging by the prevalence of petrol generators stored in board.

 

It is far easier for a bit of lack of maintenance, stupidity, or an accident to lead to an explosion and fire on a petrol boat, thus the stricter BSS requirements.

 

I do not believe the little Feemans have any insulation apart from perhaps 4 to 6mm of foam on the back of the headlining but the GRP is thicker than one would get in a modern boat.

[craftycarper]

The BSS will not allow gas fridges (and other things with naked flames) on petrol boats for good reason. Personally I would never have a solid fuel stove on a petrol boat, just to clarify a point tony the first two lines of your reply, do you mean any petrol propelled boat or specifically inboard petrol,s

[ditchcrawler]

 

 

If petrol inboards are so prone to spontaneous combustion how have so many older boats fitted with them survived?

As someone who is slightly older than you and spent my first 30 years in Norfolk I an assure you that petrol boats on the b Broads catching fire were a big problem, even today the BSC doesn't permit gas fridges in petrol powered boats unless they are room sealed, and that includes outboard powered ones with the fuel on the outside. Inboard petrol engines really need full engine/bilge blowers working before the engine is started to be considered anywhere near safe IMO.

It's a bit like people think Thatched houses are prone to burning down ... however then one I own is thatched and its over 400 years old which kind of contradicts that

 

I would prefer diesel but if i end up with petrol ( and a petrol freeman is literally half the price) then through winter leave no petrol in it might be an answer !

 

I am erring towards the mooring with electric though.

 

Two descent tube heaters would keep the frost at bay I suspect and they don't exactly eat too much electric.

And is your insurance more for a thatched property and why do local fire brigades keep a register of them?

[hertsmas]

Im really glad i posted here because not only have i learned about boats and moorings, ive learned that just a couple of people on the forum are well worth avoiding.

 

Thanks all.

 

Mas

[John V]

On the subject of petrol on boats....when I was a teenager I saw a cruiser explode probably due to petrol vapour in the bilges, the owner died. It was a sight that stayed with me for many years and has made me very cautious where petrol on a boat is concerned

[Naughty Cal]

On the subject of petrol on boats....when I was a teenager I saw a cruiser explode probably due to petrol vapour in the bilges, the owner died. It was a sight that stayed with me for many years and has made me very cautious where petrol on a boat is concerned

Many diesel boats have fires as well. Are we to avoid those?

[Phil Ambrose]

Many diesel boats have fires as well. Are we to avoid those?

Aw come on, big diference in a diesel fire and a petrol explosion, you could stand all day chucking lighted matches into a tank of diesel, try doing the same with a tank of petrol, the outcome is a no-brainer.

Phil

[Naughty Cal]

Aw come on, big diference in a diesel fire and a petrol explosion, you could stand all day chucking lighted matches into a tank of diesel, try doing the same with a tank of petrol, the outcome is a no-brainer.

Phil

Yes but if you maintain your petrol engine and follow proper fuel storage and refuelling procedure there is no reason why a petrol engined boat can not be used safely. There are enough of them around, many having been so for 40+ years, to prove that point.