Lister HA3 - Where Is THis Bit Meant To Be Attached!

[alan_fincher]

OK Lister Experts.

 

This spring clearly belongs on my HA3, but when we had ended the weekends boating today it was lying on the floor beside the engine.

 

No obvious other detached bits, but if there are some, they are more likely to be in the puddle of oil under the engine rather than where I found the spring. (My assumption is that the spring jumped some distance to where it ended up).

 

The engine was running OK until the end, and stopped OK, but clearly this bit should be somewhere.

 

My assumption, (perhaps wrong), is that it somehow relates to speed control linkage.

 

Any suggestions?

 

[James Owen]

Nothing springs to mind....

[OptedOut]

Perhaps the item circled?

 

[alan_fincher]

I think you may be right, though I think on mine there is precious little to keep it in place.

 

I'm wondering if I'm now missing some other bit.

 

Anybody know for certain, please?

[by'eck]

PM me with an email address and I'll send you a pdf of parts list.

[OptedOut]

If you look at the new spring in the image you can just about make out a brass nut/bolt which is just long enough to keep the spring, (bottom end) located, the top end is located by a protrusion on the cast/forged lever. I'll see if I can dig up a parts list later.

 

Edit: As our engine started life as an industrial pumpset there are a few non standard mods!

 

Edited July 7, 2014 by OptedOut

[bizzard]

The spring that was found looks like a compression spring, unless its a tension spring with the ends busted off and been stretched

The spring on the engine pic looks like a tension spring still with its attachment loops.

[alan_fincher]

If you look at the new spring in the image you can just about make out a brass nut/bolt which is just long enough to keep the spring, (bottom end) located, the top end is located by a protrusion on the cast/forged lever. I'll see if I can dig up a parts list later.

Yes, I'm sure you are right - I wonder why it decided to ping out at this stage, though.

 

I hope I still have my "protrusions".

 

(Boat many miles away, so can't check or take pictures for some days).

The spring that was found looks like a compression spring, unless its a tension spring with the ends busted off and been stretched

The spring on the engine pic looks like a tension spring still with its attachment loops.

 

No doubt what I have found is compression - it is not a tension spring, and no bits have gone missing.

 

OptedOut's description seems to be consistent with a compression spring.

[OptedOut]

The parts list indicates the nut/bolt is one of the travel limiting stops but does not show a spring fitted over it, possibly I've added this at some stage to balance the weight of a control rod.

[OptedOut]

See edit in my previous post

[Timleech]

The parts list indicates the nut/bolt is one of the travel limiting stops but does not show a spring fitted over it, possibly I've added this at some stage to balance the weight of a control rod.

These engines can have a tendency not to return properly to tickover if there's the slightest tension in cables etc., so often they have devices added to ensure a positive return, that looks to be exactly what that is and Alan's spring could have been doing the same job in the same place.

 

Tim

[twbm]

Dunno - but it's just occurred to me there's potentially hours of somewhat malicious pleasure to be had from keeping a handful of springs and other gubbins in one's pocket .....

[alan_fincher]

Dunno - but it's just occurred to me there's potentially hours of somewhat malicious pleasure to be had from keeping a handful of springs and other gubbins in one's pocket .....

 

Some bugger is already doing that too me with nuts, bolts and washers, without needing to get even more devious and throw springs into the mix!

[twbm]

 

Some bugger is already doing that too me with nuts, bolts and washers, without needing to get even more devious and throw springs into the mix!

 

Given how well known you are I recommend you keep the bank side doors mostly shut from now on!

[Ray T]

Dunno - but it's just occurred to me there's potentially hours of somewhat malicious pleasure to be had from keeping a handful of springs and other gubbins in one's pocket .....

 

Slightly off topic but when I raced Fireball sailing dinghy's it was "course de rigueur" to throw a used self tapping screw into a rivals boat before a race. The hope was that the recipient would notice the screw when on the water and then spend the race worrying where the screw came from and hence not concentrating fully on the race.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Ray T

[alan_fincher]

Moment of realisation!

 

Even though I'm not at boat, I've suddenly realised I do have a few engine photos.

 

This would seem to be in line with OptedOut's suggestion.

 

 

Whether it is "standard" or a "mod" I'm not sure, other than it has been there at least as long as the green paint has.

 

Why it pinged out, and whether it will stay put if I try and put it back, only time will tell!

 

Given how well known you are I recommend you keep the bank side doors mostly shut from now on!

If nothing else that would protect passes by from any springs that might otherwise come flying out!

Edited July 7, 2014 by alan_fincher

[MoominPapa]

Why it pinged out, and whether it will stay put if I try and put it back, only time will tell!

It'll be fine as long as you don't turn the speedwheel up to eleven again.

 

MP.

Edited July 7, 2014 by MoominPapa

[alan_fincher]

It'll be fine as long as you don't turn the speedwheel up to eleven again.

 

MP.

It wasn't me doing most of the "driving" when this must have happened!

[OptedOut]

I suspect it may be standard as the original image was taken long before the engine was in the boat, would guess I just replaced the rusty bits with new bits.

[springy]

Looking at alan's photo in #16, I wonder if it is associated with a cable control for the engine speed - alans photo clearly shows

rod linkage, where a return spring is not strictly necessary (though not a bad idea), with a cable control it would be far more important.

I suspect that the cable would pass through the middle of the spring both preventing the spring escaping and pulling the cable back

when tension was released.

 

springy

[alan_fincher]

Looking at alan's photo in #16, I wonder if it is associated with a cable control for the engine speed - alans photo clearly shows

rod linkage, where a return spring is not strictly necessary (though not a bad idea), with a cable control it would be far more important.

I suspect that the cable would pass through the middle of the spring both preventing the spring escaping and pulling the cable back

when tension was released.

 

springy

 

Your username is surprisingly appropriate here!

 

I think I need to take a proper look when back at the boat, but unless it popped off at the moment of our arrival, I think we may have gone a few miles with "spring not present", so I doubt it is essential.

[OptedOut]

Looking at Alan's image the stop control was designed for cable operation and also has the same type of slotted hole

[Sir Nibble]

This may not be a return spring but simply there as an "anti rattle" device, although such a thing on a Lister must stand as an exercise in futility.

[by'eck]

Looking at the parts diagram and your photo, its seems likely that Springy's explanation as to string security was correct. The spring if original is described as a speeder spring and works as on a JP to provide a balance to the governor spring pushing the other way on the common bellcrank.

 

It seems possible that you could arrange for a rod to be fitted within the spring, secured at bottom end but free to slide on a trunnion at the bellcrank end to secure it.

[Timleech]

The speeder spring in these engines is internal, item 38 on OO's drawing.

The external compression spring as shown in his pic will have no effect on engine speed for a given setting of throttle linkage, it just provides encouragement to return to the idle position.

 

Tim