newbie

[naynay]

Hi folks I am new to boating. I would like to downsize to live on a narrowboat because if I don't do it now then I never will! I want an old style boat that is not filled with ultra modern fittings which are not my style. I have seen a few on line but find it difficult timewise getting out to see anything. Also would like someone to come with me who knows more about the technical stuff than me because that could be my downfall. So..... a boat caught my eye on Appolduck not sure how to put the link in but if anyone wants to look then it's the 37ft 1970'sTeddesely Sail Away. It's not at a mooring and the owner has yet to answer my e mail about having a look at it. It's on the Macclesfield canal somewhere and I am in Liverpool.... It needs a boiler as there only seems to be cold water. I know it's cheap but what do the more experienced of you boaters think about it please. I have seen a few others but one at a time!!

thanks folks

[Felshampo]

My advice is to take your time. It is a steep learning curve and there are no short cuts. Yes you could buy the first boat you see, and some people do. But... If you want to live on the boat then you will need to know all about the technical stuff to survive. You can get a lot of good advice from people on this forum about every aspect of boating. However it will be you who will be left holding the tiller so buy a few books, see a lot of boats and then you will be able to decide for yourself.

 

Jon

[mark99]

Hi folks I am new to boating. I would like to downsize to live on a narrowboat because if I don't do it now then I never will! I want an old style boat that is not filled with ultra modern fittings which are not my style. I have seen a few on line but find it difficult timewise getting out to see anything. Also would like someone to come with me who knows more about the technical stuff than me because that could be my downfall. So..... a boat caught my eye on Appolduck not sure how to put the link in but if anyone wants to look then it's the 37ft 1970'sTeddesely Sail Away. It's not at a mooring and the owner has yet to answer my e mail about having a look at it. It's on the Macclesfield canal somewhere and I am in Liverpool.... It needs a boiler as there only seems to be cold water. I know it's cheap but what do the more experienced of you boaters think about it please. I have seen a few others but one at a time!!

thanks folks

 

 

I'll be blunt if you don't mind, in the interests of hopefully getting you from making decision you could regret.

 

If you are going to sell up and downsize to a £12K narrowboat without knowing anything much then you are doomed to consigning yourself to lots of problems imo.

 

To get a narrowboat for 12K it's going to be at the very end of it's usefull life carrying issues and need constant fettling.

 

Why not go to somewhere like Whilton Marina and have a damn good poke about lots of second hand boats. See what you get for your money.

Edited May 9, 2014 by mark99

[naynay]

thanks folks... good advice which is what my brain was telling me!! Not having had a reply from the vendor tells me a lot too!!

[Neil2]

I'd endorse what Mark says, you need to go and look at dozens of boats if you can but forget about what you think you can afford, look at all sorts then you will get some idea of what you get for your money.

 

I'm all for people seizing the day and all that, but you do need to think about what might happen if the boat venture turns out to be a terrible mistake. We don't hear much about the disasters on this forum, but having cruised thousands of miles on the UK network I can tell you there are scores of miserable boaters out there who are stuck in a rut because they don't have an exit strategy.

 

So, one important fact to think about is small boats these days are very cheap, because there are very few buyers around. Most potential NB buyers are looking for something at least 40 feet long, and in the next few years I reckon the "starter" length will become 45 foot.

 

So a small boat looks like an attractive proposition on the surface, but you might be stuck with it if things don't work out.

 

As regards the Teddesley boat, please forget it. Something like that its almost worthless. He will probably sell it for maybe five or six grand to an unsuspecting buyer but make sure it isn't you.

[naynay]

there is another one in Venetian Marina ' lucky joker' 2 1980 38' 4 berth.....its not too far from me so will go there to have a look at various boats. Are NBs like houses in so far that the décor is just that and you can change it to suit ( never mind the cost for now). Obviously the newer the boat the longer life you will have but what I don't want is a floating apartment which a lot of them seem to be.... these questions are pretty basic but got to start at the beginning. This will only be for me and greyhound and anyone who can be bothered to visit!!!! and you're all so helpful on this forum too.

[Phil Ambrose]

Hi Naynay, plenty of people live on boats around the 40ft mark, you want to be looking at a Trad stern for that length which will give you max interior space.

A boat of that length will give you a saloon, workable galley, shower room/toilet and a fixed (small) double bedroom.

If you embrace the lifestyle you can be very comfortable. Let us know how you get on and keep coming back for advice.

 

Phil

[naynay]

I look around at all the stuff you collect in bricks and mortar...so many things that you don't really need. I look forward to minimalizing my lifestyle..Such a friendly helpful bunch on water way more than my local natives on the street!!

[Alan de Enfield]

I look around at all the stuff you collect in bricks and mortar...so many things that you don't really need. I look forward to minimalizing my lifestyle..Such a friendly helpful bunch on water way more than my local natives on the street!!

 

No hub-caps on boats !!

[naynay]

or wheels for that matter!!

[kevinl]

Unless anyone knows better I can't think of a half decent brokers in the north west of England that has a good stock of boats and is happy for you to have a wander round and a look, just at the outside for starters. Tell me the price and show me the outside and most of the time I wouldn't even need to ask for the keys and I don't like the pressure sell.

If as you say you're short of time to look then you do have a problem as you really need to do some legwork so you have a mental yardstick if what you can expect for the money. If you indicate the price bracket you're looking for after having deducted £700 for a survey and keeping a bit aside for any bits that you may want to do we could put up a few suggestions.

Do you have any idea where you would moor, will you need shore power do you have to commute to work, all things you need to think about.

K

[Clifford]

Welcome!

 

Please don't dive into choosing a boat yet. You could be making an expesive mistake that would leave you stuck with completely the wrong boat which, until you manage to sell it again will not only be making you unhappy and uncomfortable and costing you mney to keep afloat, will be delaying you from getting aboard the right oat.

 

We're not trying to put you off. We want you to be sure that boating is for you once you are aware of the issues, and for you to understand the different types of boats so you can pick the right one with your eyes open.

 

You aren't at the stage where you can be 'contacting vendors' without risking making a very big mistake that could make you miserable for a long time.

 

I'd recommend...

 

Stick around here for a while, read lots of stuff, especially fron New to Boating and Living Afloat Get a feel for the basic issues and ask for clarification of anything you don't understand. Try not just to repeat questions that have been asked and answered a million times (but don't worry if you sometimes do by mistake. Try and get a feel for whether you will be happy fixing things that go wrong. It's not really about being terribly technical, more about a wiilingness to learn and get stuck in. If you have tons of money, you can get a boatyard to fix and improve everything, but you really won't believe how much that costs.

 

Walk some canals, in all weathers. Try and imagine REALLY living on that boat, on that towpath, in all weathers, lugging a plastic box of poo to that little hut in the rain whether you feel like it or not. Chat to boaters. Look at the CRT website to see how much moorings cost in the area you are interested in.

 

As I say, not trying to pretend boating isn't great. None of us would be on this forum if we dididn't far prefer boating to not boating.

 

Hope you enjoy getting to grips with it all. Here's a few things to see if you can use the forum to start understanding and thinking about.

 

Pumpout versus cassette.

Cruiser versus semitrad.

Trad "stern" versus "real" trad.

40ft versus 70ft

Permanent bed versus converting bed.

Continuous Cruiser versus Bridgehopper.

Continuous Moorer versus Home Mooring.

Online mooring versus marina.

Residential Mooring versus Leisure Mooring.

Heating by solid fuel, diesel, or gas.

Hot water by the above or electricity or only by running engine.

Pre purchase survey or not?

What is BSS?

Broker or private purchase?

How do you know the seller owns it? Or if the ex-wife will set a solicitor on you?

 

These are all topics you'll find lots of stuff on without asking.

 

Honestly, the choosing and buying stage is the best bit, once you know what you want. Enjoy.

[Phil Ambrose]

Damned good post Clifford.

Phil

[YamYam]

Bear in mind your budget as well. When I went looking 16 years ago had a budget of 15 grand which soon disappeared out the window and ended up paying 30 grand but finance was much easier then

[naynay]

great advice..million thanks. so many moorings will now have to find out what they all are well the ones I'm unsure of anyway. I would, in my head, like to be as eco friendly/low impact as I can re heating and things like that. but have lots of homework to do I guess anyway. re fixing things - am willing to learn allsorts, providing there's someone to show me how and what.... will have to be in the marina here for now as I don't want to have to travel miles to work and therefore leave my dog for too long too far away plus I need to be near my dad in case of emergencies etc. Budgets do tend to change as you go along like buying a house..... is council tax payable - the marina here says that it's not payable but want to confirm that.

anyway this is a great helpful forum and no one makes me feel that my questions are stupid!!!!

[hopefulboater]

thanks folks... good advice which is what my brain was telling me!! Not having had a reply from the vendor tells me a lot too!!

Im pretty sure my brother enquired about this boat and did not receive a reply either.

[hopefulboater]

My journey towards owing a boat has been this -

Searched apollo duck and marina and looked at hundreds of boats for sale on the internet.

Realised I knew nothing about the specs or language of boats so joined and devoured the info on this forum and a couple of relevant facebook groups.

Spent many many many nights reading all sorts of things all on the internet re living on the canals, such as mooring restrictions, how to get water, problems with london (where I will be based), how the systems of the boat work such as toilet, heating etc, the process of actually buying, making offers, surveys, basically anything and everything related. If you start anywhere you will soon be led nicely to the next subject and the next and next... Read it all, not just the interesting to you bits.

I then found a boat for sale that I could rent very cheaply while it was for sale for a couple of months (this was luck). Real life experience of boat life showed me the day to day reality.

Now I am actually looking at real live boats to buy and this has taught me that all the pictures on the internet are b*****ks and the boat is 99% of the time much less shiny in all ways than the pictures show.

I would advise you to just start reading past posts on this forum and take yourself to marinas with a variety of boats and poke around them all, big small, in and out of your price range but do stick to your budget and save some for emergencies.

Dont listen to anyone who advises you not to get a survey, Always get a survey! Good luck.

Cliffords post above is awesome and spot on.

[Alan de Enfield]

hopefulboater, on 11 May 2014 - 9:31 PM, said:

 

Dont listen to anyone who advises you not to get a survey, Always get a survey! Good luck.

 

 

Is that from your personal experience ?

My experience is different

 

Paid £1000 for a hull, gear and engine survey, 'passed' with flying colours so bought the boat (£60,000).

1st weeks usage resulted in identifying over £20,000 needed spending on the boat to make it usable.

 

Ended up taking legal action against surveyor, and 'lost' as the surveyors report is valid on the day of issue only and does not include anyhing that cannot be seen, will not look behind cupboards or lift carpets and because the gearbox oil dip stik needed a spanner (not allowed to use one of those) the oil was not checked. Drive legs oil not checked for the same reason.

 

Total waste of money.

 

Buy your own steel thickness tester, and take a mechanic person with you.

The two expensive things on a boat are the engine and the hull - anything else can be relatively easily and cheaply replaced.

 

By all means have a survey if it puts your mind at rest,

A survey may tell you a boat is 'beyond help' in which case you'ved saved money, or it may tell you its perfect, when it isnt. in which case you wasted the money.

 

Dont always trust a survey.

Edited May 11, 2014 by Alan de Enfield

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Alan OMG, what an absolutely Awfull experience for you !.

As you say, it makes you question the reasons for having one done at all.

 

I must admit I have been present & onboard on every survey I've commissioned, and I had a few done over the years, and found them very Professional & thorough !.

I must have been SO lucky with the various surveyors I've used, BUT I will now always have your post ringing in my mind in future. Thank you.

Funny enough, ime getting a Full in & Out the water Hull, Machinery and Systems Survey and Valuation done end of the month !. He is here All day and I've even got to by him lunch whilst the yard lift me out ! Cheeky beggar !.

 

(£1250 GULP !, & it's just for my own piece of mind, as I'm putting it up for sale, I've actually done the same thing on all the boats I've sold over the years,,,you know,,Life n Limb & all that !)

Edited May 11, 2014 by Paul's Nulife4-2

[John V]

Trouble with having a big boat.....the in and out charge alone makes your eyes water!

[Clifford]

Passing a survey is no guarantee that a boat is sound. Sure.

 

But if a boat is going to FAIL a survey, I want to know BEFORE I buy it.

 

And btw, money spent on a failed survey is NOT 'wasted money' (unless you could have guessd it was going to fail, in which case you shouldn't have gone ahead).

 

I find it bizare that people regard a survey that stopped them spending thousands on a dodgy boat as a waste.

 

But if it turns out to have failed because of something the vendor/broker knew about , I think one has a right to be annoyed, to put it mildly.

[hopefulboater]

 

Is that from your personal experience ?

My experience is different

 

Paid £1000 for a hull, gear and engine survey, 'passed' with flying colours so bought the boat (£60,000).

1st weeks usage resulted in identifying over £20,000 needed spending on the boat to make it usable.

 

Ended up taking legal action against surveyor, and 'lost' as the surveyors report is valid on the day of issue only and does not include anyhing that cannot be seen, will not look behind cupboards or lift carpets and because the gearbox oil dip stik needed a spanner (not allowed to use one of those) the oil was not checked. Drive legs oil not checked for the same reason.

 

Total waste of money.

 

Buy your own steel thickness tester, and take a mechanic person with you.

The two expensive things on a boat are the engine and the hull - anything else can be relatively easily and cheaply replaced.

 

By all means have a survey if it puts your mind at rest,

A survey may tell you a boat is 'beyond help' in which case you'ved saved money, or it may tell you its perfect, when it isnt. in which case you wasted the money.

 

Dont always trust a survey.

Horrible story, I am aware that a survey is not bomb proof but still for someone who knows next to nothing about boats to go through with a sale without one is madness!

So I will rejig my advise to say always get a survey and get recommendations choose the surveyor carefully!

 

I am already nervous enough with the whole boat buying process, stories like this do not help but am glad to hear them so my eyes are kept wide open. Its a scary business with too many sharks in the water

 

If you dont mind me asking was it the hull that needed the work doing?

Edited May 12, 2014 by hopefulboater

[Alan de Enfield]

hopefulboater, on 12 May 2014 - 4:34 PM, said:

 

 

If you dont mind me asking was it the hull that needed the work doing?

 

Fibreglass cruiser - serious work was needed on engine, drive legs and turbos. I had specifically asked for "gear and engine"

to be surveyed.

 

(2 x 200hp Volvos on outdrives)

[naynay]

one other thing..I have an aga in my kitchen at home which is massive and heavy to say the least.. How come I have seen pics of an aga on a boat???

[Alan de Enfield]

Remember that in the 'old days' (when canals were used for trade instead of leisure) a narrowboat would be carrying 30 tons of coal / jam / steel / pottery etc etc

 

A little Aga won't make any difference.