Hire boat fuel charges

[kevinl]

The Norfolk Broads is a rip off, nice place but a rip off, it's so geared up to skinning tourists, you can't believe how good they are at it. They'll be getting the tax back on the heating element of the fuel price you paid and probably be selling off everything you put in the pump out tank to the local fertilizer farm as a bonus.

They have a unique asset and they milk it but I've still done it about 6 times over 50 years (on hire boats as a kid and a parent) and it is good but canals are better even down south.

K

[MyLady]

The Norfolk Broads is a rip off, nice place but a rip off, it's so geared up to skinning tourists, you can't believe how good they are at it. They'll be getting the tax back on the heating element of the fuel price you paid and probably be selling off everything you put in the pump out tank to the local fertilizer farm as a bonus.

They have a unique asset and they milk it but I've still done it about 6 times over 50 years (on hire boats as a kid and a parent) and it is good but canals are better even down south.

K

The broads have changed since Arthur Ransome was there and wrote about them. He possibly is partly to blame for the tourist pressure.

 

Ho hum. ;(

 

R

[kevinl]

The broads have changed since Arthur Ransome was there and wrote about them. He possibly is partly to blame for the tourist pressure.

 

Ho hum. ;(

 

R

Probably you're right it is a magical place and I love it and he told the world about it. Damn you Bronte Sisters and your fecking Haworth parsonage and you Laurie Lee and your Gloucestershire dreams if only Arthur Ransome has set his book Swallows and Amazons in the Lake District, but wait a second, he did well done Arthur

Edited May 4, 2014 by kevinl

[ditchcrawler]

The Norfolk Broads is a rip off, nice place but a rip off, it's so geared up to skinning tourists, you can't believe how good they are at it. They'll be getting the tax back on the heating element of the fuel price you paid and probably be selling off everything you put in the pump out tank to the local fertilizer farm as a bonus.

They have a unique asset and they milk it but I've still done it about 6 times over 50 years (on hire boats as a kid and a parent) and it is good but canals are better even down south.

K

That's true and I am a Norfolk Boy. Charge for water, charge to moor at a pub even if you ate eating there.

[Phil Ambrose]

That's true and I am a Norfolk Boy. Charge for water, charge to moor at a pub even if you ate eating there.

All true but to be fair Brian most pubs will credit mooring fee if you eat there, at least the ones I worked in did.

Phil

[RichardH]

We did the Broads as our 2nd hire boat holiday and it was the added costs that actually put us off. As Ditchcrawler says, everything and everywhere was extra - and the pubs weren't even that great. The feeling was they didn't have to try because it was a new stream of hungry tourists the day after.

[Phil Ambrose]

We did the Broads as our 2nd hire boat holiday and it was the added costs that actually put us off. As Ditchcrawler says, everything and everywhere was extra - and the pubs weren't even that great. The feeling was they didn't have to try because it was a new stream of hungry tourists the day after.

Its all down to the management, zero hours contracts meant that in our kitchen often only 3 of us expected to knock out 550 plus meals a day, working 60 to 70 hours a week, getting out of the kitchen at midnight or later and back the next day to get set up at 9-00am.

Yeah the staff do get jaded.

Phil

[ditchcrawler]

All true but to be fair Brian most pubs will credit mooring fee if you eat there, at least the ones I worked in did.

Phil

Oulton Broad £10 a night with a £5 meal voucher is just one example.

[Phil Ambrose]

Oulton Broad £10 a night with a £5 meal voucher is just one example.

Ouch, given I retired 6 years ago things have changed though I was at Horning on the Northen Broads maybe they were more generous.

Phil

[Justin Smith]

Oulton Broad £10 a night with a £5 meal voucher is just one example.

 

The bloke who did our handover at Alpha Craft was just like a rep, telling us what he thought we wanted to hear.... I commented we usually did the canals and on them you can moor anywhere (on the towpath side anyway), he said "you can moor almost anywhere on the Broads" (bollox #1). Then, at Oulton Broad, "you can moor at the pub opposite yacht station for free" (bollox #2). You do get £5 off if you eat there, but we went to the Indian at the side of the yacht station and it was very good, and they had a high chair for our little varmint !

Yes as I also said a bit pricey but in the scheme of things if you spent an extra 20p a litre it would only cost you another £12.00 so say on the holiday of 3 days and 4 nights its only £4 a day and when you have had a nice time its not a huge amount and for me certainly would not make me blink.

Phil

 

It`s the principle Phil.

Alpha Craft were good in some ways, for example they let us return the boat a bit later because it wasn`t booked out. But they did p**s me off a bit in that everything was extra. They even charge for the car parking, even for the first car ! And when you sign for the boat they`re trying to sell you insurance for this and insurance for that etc etc etc. Bearing all this in mind I really shouldn`t have been surprised that they charged us so much for the diesel.....

Edited May 4, 2014 by Justin Smith

[jelunga]

I don't think they can legally chare you for fuel with its volume based on a dipstick reading. If they sell fuel, and this is effectively what's happening, then they'd need to have a calibrated flowrate nozzle/pump. I don't know the relevant law, probably something to do with the weights & measures act???

Quite correct. I was Weights and Measures in the mid 79'S so the law mag have changed but then they would gace to charge in the amount filled from a stamped pump.

[Justin Smith]

alpha craft at Brundall are the most expensive for diesel when hiring. But if you book direct through them next time u get free fuel. I normally hire spitfire of thunderbolt.

 

Few w

 

We like hiring through Hoseasons though, they give us a 10% NHS discount and they sorted us out a couple of years ago when we`d originally booked on the Thames but it was "in flood", so, at the last minute they found us a boat on the K&A. It`s a bit naughty if Alpha Craft charge extra for fuel through Hoseasons but not direct.....

 

We wanted to hire Alpha Spitfire but it was already booked, you probably had it ! We had Alpha Phantom and it really was a Curate's Egg of a cruiser. On the one hand the two steering positions were great and the front day cabin/lounge/dining room was one of the best I`ve ever seen on a cruiser, large, light and comfortable. But the cabins were a joke, very small, minimal storage space and virtually no hooks* or shelves. And neither bathroom had a curtain round the shower, the rear one had no shelf space at all, even for your bath bag and toothbrush ! It was a very inconsistent design.

 

* Actually, most hire craft have a severe shortage of hooks, there almost never anywhere to hang your coat or whatever...... One wonders if these designers ever actually use the boats !

Edited May 4, 2014 by Justin Smith

[Phil Ambrose]

Justin I'm afraid upselling is a sign of the times though I have to say that "Diver Insurance" is worth taking for most non-boaty people as I've seen the Diver in action many many times over the years with lines around the prop.

Phil

[lynalldisocvery]

 

 

* 5mph against a 2mph tide is 7mph, with it it`s only 3mph, and that`s a huge difference.

 

 

I assume you typed this back to front?

[Radiomariner]

Quite correct. I was Weights and Measures in the mid 79'S so the law mag have changed but then they would gace to charge in the amount filled from a stamped pump.

Measuring by dipstick involves a lot of factors in addition to known tank measures. the boat's trim for instance would have to be taken into account. I don't think the average boat yard attendant would be up to this. I can however envisage a yard using a dipstick when filling a tank to stop the filling at a predetermined level (say 90%) to avoid overfilling and overflowing. The pump would be stopped when that point is reached and the (calibrated) pump reading taken to calculate fuel used.

 

Tip, for the original poster. If the water tank is forward and the measuring point for the fuel tank (be it the filling point, a separate dipstick aperture, or a float device) arriving back with an empty water tank MAY be to your advantage, and a full water tank if the devices are at the forward end of the tank. Depends whether the hirer fills the water tank before the fuel tank

Edited May 5, 2014 by Radiomariner

[MyLady]

I assume you typed this back to front?

It depends which speeds are over the ground and which are through the water. Taken the right way round it isn't back to front...

[lynalldisocvery]

It depends which speeds are over the ground and which are through the water. Taken the right way round it isn't back to front...

 

 

Please explain in laymans language?

[Robbo]

 

 

Please explain in laymans language?

5mph over the ground

2mph tide/current

 

Upstream the engine will be effectivy doing 7mph

Down stream it will be doing 3mph.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Robbo

[Phil Ambrose]

5mph over the ground

2mph tide/current

 

Upstream the engine will be effectivy doing 7mph

Down stream it will be doing 3mph.

Exactly right, think about it this way if it helps, against a 2mph current you would be standing still if the throttle was set to 2mph so you would be using fuel just by going nowhere

Phil

[Justin Smith]

5mph over the ground

2mph tide/current

 

Upstream the engine will be effectivy doing 7mph

Down stream it will be doing 3mph.

 

Yes, that`s what I meant, it was poorly written in the first place.

 

 

I assume you typed this back to front?

 

See above......

[lynalldisocvery]

I kind of was taking the mick as I have a little idea whats going on just a little idea!

I was questioning it as was when I go out I always try and catch the tide out and back in as it makes the boat so much nicer to handle and being a tight wad saves quite a bit of fuel

I only work on speed over ground as the log speedo is pretty poor to say the least doesnt start working until its on the plane!

5mph over the ground
2mph tide/current

Upstream the engine will be effectivy doing 7mph
Down stream it will be doing 3mph.

Thats only correct IF the tide is coming in surely?

I ask as you failed to mention it

Im also sure you meant boat and not engine

Anyway more to the point why arent you lot at the IWA thing in London? just seen it on BBC news

[Phil Ambrose]

In terms of up or down stream, think of it as going with or against the flow, it matters not if the flow is caused by tide or by plain river flow or a combination of the 2.

Phil

[Robbo]

In terms of up or down stream, think of it as going with or against the flow, it matters not if the flow is caused by tide or by plain river flow or a combination of the 2.

Phil

This could get complicated,

 

If the current is going at 3mph, the tide is coming in at 2mph, but your rowing from one side to the other at 1mph and it's a quater of a mile wide river, where will you end up and what ground speed will you be doing?

[Alan de Enfield]

This could get complicated,

 

If the current is going at 3mph, the tide is coming in at 2mph, but your rowing from one side to the other at 1mph and it's a quater of a mile wide river, where will you end up and what ground speed will you be doing?

 

Thats similar to some of the questions in the RYA Day Skipper course - but - the distances are larger, eg depart Dover and cross the channel. Tide running at 4 knots, (Take into account the "Rule of Twelfths") East to West, Wind 10 knots NEasterly boat travelling at 5 knots. Where would you end up and how long would it take ?

 

It starts to get complicated when you are on a 12 hour trip and have to take into account 'two-tides'

[Phil Ambrose]

This could get complicated,

 

If the current is going at 3mph, the tide is coming in at 2mph, but your rowing from one side to the other at 1mph and it's a quater of a mile wide river, where will you end up and what ground speed will you be doing?

If you rowed at exactly 90 deg to the direction of flow your speed over ground would be 1mph and you would end up 1/4 mile down stream.

Phil