Jump to content

Hire boat fuel charges


Justin Smith

Featured Posts

Hire boat fuel charges

 

We`ve just come back from the Broads and it was great, I probably prefer the canals overall but I do think every boater should go on the Broads if they can !

 

Some yards include the fuel in the hire charge but some charge an additional fuel deposit and refund an amount for unused diesel. The yard we hired from did the latter. We had a fairly big boat Alpha Phantom at 42ft long (this is small for a canal boat but large for a 12ft wide cruiser ! ), but it was only a 3 day / 4 night mid week break. We did about 70miles and rarely exceeded 5mph though the tides were against us for much of the time, in addition the heating (which was on a lot) used diesel.

Upon returning the boat I was very surprised to be informed we`d used 60 litres (13.5 gallons) of diesel. Worse we were charged £1.45 per litre despite the fact the duty is only 70% of the full amount due to the split between propulsion and heating.

 

I have two questions :

 

1 Bearing in mind the trip we did, does 60 litres sound right ?

2 Is £1.45 per litre a reasonable amount to charge for diesel (particularly when the duty is only 70%) ?

 

My recommendation :

 

Try to hire boats with the fuel included then you don`t have to start wondering whether you`ve been charged right !

Edited by Justin Smith
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hire boat fuel charges

 

We`ve just come back from the Broads and it was great, I probably prefer the canals overall but I do think every boater should go on the Broads if they can !

 

Some yards include the fuel in the hire charge but some charge an additional fuel deposit and refund an amount for unused diesel. The yard we hired from did the latter. We had a fairly big boat Alpha Phantom at 42ft long (this is small for a canal boat but large for a 12ft wide cruiser ! ), but it was only a 3 day / 4 night mid week break. We did about 70miles and rarely exceeded 5mph though the tides were against us for much of the time, in addition the heating (which was on a lot) used diesel.

Upon returning the boat I was very surprised to be informed we`d used 60 litres (13.5 gallons) of diesel. Worse we were charged £1.45 per litre despite the fact the duty is only 70% of the full amount due to the split between propulsion and heating.

 

I have two questions :

 

1 Bearing in mind the trip we did, does 60 litres sound right ?

2 Is £1.45 per litre a reasonable amount to charge for diesel (particularly when the duty is only 70%) ?

 

My recommendation :

 

Try to hire boats with the fuel included then you don`t have to start wondering whether you`ve been charged right !

My recommendation (on the canals at least), find your friendly neighbourhood fuel boat, ideally the evening before you return the hire boat, and fill to the brim at a sensible price!

 

George ex nb Alton retired

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

To be pedantic, all red diesel you use for leisure boating pupose on UK inland waters has both fuel duty and VAT payable on top of the base price. (There is even VAT on the fuel uty!).

 

The difference is that the fuel assumed to be used for non propulsion purposes has fuel duty charged at a heavily rebated rate, (typically the same as home heating oils), here as that used for propulsion bears the full rate, (usually the same as road fuels).

 

Where someone chargesyou a fixed split, they will normally assume the HMRC "guideline" that 60% was or will be used for propulsion, and 40% for non propulsion.

 

£1.45 per litre on that basis sounds expensive, but given where you bought it, and under what circumstances, doesn't overly surprise me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have two questions :

1 Bearing in mind the trip we did, does 60 litres sound right ?

 

Assuming that you checked the tank was full at the start and it was filled to the same level then that is what you used. ( 5miles an hour against the tide will suck the fuel through, very fast)

2 Is £1.45 per litre a reasonable amount to charge for diesel (particularly when the duty is only 70%) ?

 

Check the local garages and see their charge per litre, bet there is not much difference, maybe there should have been an allowance for domestic use.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for your replies.

Refilling the tank yourself is a good idea, though obviously the price of the diesel would have to be cheap enough to make it worthwhile. I do think it`s interesting the yard estimated the diesel usage by means of a dip stick which may have been accurate enough when fuel was cheap but those days have long gone !

I do agree that tides can have a big effect on consumption*, I didn`t do any research into the tide times as I`ve only ever cruised on canals and tide free rivers before, but at the end of the day we didn`t have the boat long so couldn`t be that flexible.

One last point has occurred to me. I don`t know of any hire company that charges you for gas, so if you hire a boat with diesel powered heating that seems a bit unfair. If I`d have known the heating was going to be so expensive I`d have just used the gas hob burners for heating !

 

* 5mph against a 2mph tide is 7mph, with it it`s only 3mph, and that`s a huge difference.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think they can legally chare you for fuel with its volume based on a dipstick reading. If they sell fuel, and this is effectively what's happening, then they'd need to have a calibrated flowrate nozzle/pump. I don't know the relevant law, probably something to do with the weights & measures act???

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hire boat fuel charges

 

We`ve just come back from the Broads and it was great, I probably prefer the canals overall but I do think every boater should go on the Broads if they can !

 

Some yards include the fuel in the hire charge but some charge an additional fuel deposit and refund an amount for unused diesel. The yard we hired from did the latter. We had a fairly big boat Alpha Phantom at 42ft long (this is small for a canal boat but large for a 12ft wide cruiser ! ), but it was only a 3 day / 4 night mid week break. We did about 70miles and rarely exceeded 5mph though the tides were against us for much of the time, in addition the heating (which was on a lot) used diesel.

Upon returning the boat I was very surprised to be informed we`d used 60 litres (13.5 gallons) of diesel. Worse we were charged £1.45 per litre despite the fact the duty is only 70% of the full amount due to the split between propulsion and heating.

 

I have two questions :

 

1 Bearing in mind the trip we did, does 60 litres sound right ?

2 Is £1.45 per litre a reasonable amount to charge for diesel (particularly when the duty is only 70%) ?

 

My recommendation :

 

Try to hire boats with the fuel included then you don`t have to start wondering whether you`ve been charged right !

That is about right for a hire company on the Broads. When it was standed red diesel they use to charge about 10p less than white at the pumps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Or......do a bit of research on what a typical fuel consumption figure is, then compare different hire firms' prices by factoring this in.

 

Is there anyone on here with a 40ft cruiser ? If so, what approximate fuel consumption do you get out of it ?

How much diesel fuel (on a large boat, a 40ft widebeam or a 70ft narrowboat) is used with a heating system which is thus fuelled ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Justin,

There's nothing for it, you are doomed, I predict you are going to end up buying a boat!

This is on the edge of the topic rather than off topic, so please bear with me:

 

My brother had hired boats several times, on canals not the Broads but I doubt that makes much difference, and upon deciding he wanted to do more he weighed up the pros and cons of ownership and went for it. He keeps a fairly shiny narrow boat in a marina in the Midlands and uses it for a few weeks of annual holidays plus about 15-20 weekends per year, and reckons that's much cheaper overall than hiring. Of course to make a proper comparison you have to make sensible assumptions about the big irregular maintenance costs and depreciation, but knowing his background I expect he did.

 

Ask yourself: how much boating do you see yourself doing in future, where and in what sort of vessel? If the answers are Quite a lot, In some connected waters, and The same type of vessel, then maybe look at buying sooner rather than later?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We hired a 44 x 13 cruiser for 14 days (in effect 12 days after collection and reurn) we used £190 diesel.

 

At start diesel was full to the bottom of the filler neck and on return it was filled to the 'same' level by a hose with a flow meter built into the nozzle. Dont know what the £ / lt rate was tho.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Justin,

There's nothing for it, you are doomed, I predict you are going to end up buying a boat!

This is on the edge of the topic rather than off topic, so please bear with me:

 

My brother had hired boats several times, on canals not the Broads but I doubt that makes much difference, and upon deciding he wanted to do more he weighed up the pros and cons of ownership and went for it. He keeps a fairly shiny narrow boat in a marina in the Midlands and uses it for a few weeks of annual holidays plus about 15-20 weekends per year, and reckons that's much cheaper overall than hiring. Of course to make a proper comparison you have to make sensible assumptions about the big irregular maintenance costs and depreciation, but knowing his background I expect he did.

 

Ask yourself: how much boating do you see yourself doing in future, where and in what sort of vessel? If the answers are Quite a lot, In some connected waters, and The same type of vessel, then maybe look at buying sooner rather than later?

 

I like boating but it`s not just up to me ! My wife also likes boating but probably only one holiday a year because she only gets so much holidays and also wants to go to other places, like New Zealand, which was great I may add. We did consider the pros and cons of buying a boat but on balance hiring suits us better at the moment. Don`t forget you can hire boats from anywhere on the system (we did the Brecon last year, it was fabulous) which is also a consideration, you`re not tied to starting from the same base. Most of the boats we get are fine, though there`s always a lack of bleedin` hooks to hang things from and usually a distinct shortage of shelves as well ! ! !

We hired a 44 x 13 cruiser for 14 days (in effect 12 days after collection and reurn) we used £190 diesel.

 

At start diesel was full to the bottom of the filler neck and on return it was filled to the 'same' level by a hose with a flow meter built into the nozzle. Dont know what the £ / lt rate was tho.

 

Did you go for maximum mileage or just a few hours a day ? Did you make any attempt to use the tides (we didn`t.....) ? Was the heating diesel, and if so did you use it much ?

Edited by Justin Smith
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 years living aboard and cruising the Broads, I would say that 60 litres for a 70 mile cruise, pushing against the tide and current plus heavy heater use sounds quite reasonable, though £1.45 a litre sounds a bit strong but hey you had a nice time so even if you paid 20p over the top it aint a lot.

Phil

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I like boating but it`s not just up to me ! My wife also likes boating but probably only one holiday a year because she only gets so much holidays and also wants to go to other places, like New Zealand, which was great I may add.

I bet you didn't query how much fuel they put in the plane boat.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Justin Smith, on 03 May 2014 - 3:01 PM, said:

 

 

Did you go for maximum mileage or just a few hours a day ? Did you make any attempt to use the tides (we didn`t.....) ? Was the heating diesel, and if so did you use it much ?

 

Caledonian Canal - about 4 hours per day.

October - hard frost everynight, diesel heating on virtually all day

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I paid 109.35 pence per litre for diesel last week which is 131.22 ppl with the VAT, trunk road pump price was around 136ppl so it does seem a tad pricey.

Yes as I also said a bit pricey but in the scheme of things if you spent an extra 20p a litre it would only cost you another £12.00 so say on the holiday of 3 days and 4 nights its only £4 a day and when you have had a nice time its not a huge amount and for me certainly would not make me blink.

Phil

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes as I also said a bit pricey but in the scheme of things if you spent an extra 20p a litre it would only cost you another £12.00 so say on the holiday of 3 days and 4 nights its only £4 a day and when you have had a nice time its not a huge amount and for me certainly would not make me blink.

Phil

 

Can you lend me £12? I'll definitely pay it back at some point!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, I agree with Phil that it is not a great deal of money. I pay less for diesel but then I buy 1,000 litres a week, pump it in myself at fully-automated unmanned sites and I buy it from a bunkering company who buy it by the ship load.It's bound to be cheaper.

 

If a bloke has to spend ten or twenty minutes of his time waddling over, turning on the pump, pumping it in to the boat, turning the pump off and waddling back to whatever he was doing when I return the boat I'm hiring in August then I wouldn't be surprised if the tank of diesel cost a tenner or so more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hire boat fuel charges

 

We`ve just come back from the Broads and it was great, I probably prefer the canals overall but I do think every boater should go on the Broads if they can !

 

Some yards include the fuel in the hire charge but some charge an additional fuel deposit and refund an amount for unused diesel. The yard we hired from did the latter. We had a fairly big boat Alpha Phantom at 42ft long (this is small for a canal boat but large for a 12ft wide cruiser ! ), but it was only a 3 day / 4 night mid week break. We did about 70miles and rarely exceeded 5mph though the tides were against us for much of the time, in addition the heating (which was on a lot) used diesel.

Upon returning the boat I was very surprised to be informed we`d used 60 litres (13.5 gallons) of diesel. Worse we were charged £1.45 per litre despite the fact the duty is only 70% of the full amount due to the split between propulsion and heating.

 

I have two questions :

 

1 Bearing in mind the trip we did, does 60 litres sound right ?

2 Is £1.45 per litre a reasonable amount to charge for diesel (particularly when the duty is only 70%) ?

 

My recommendation :

 

Try to hire boats with the fuel included then you don`t have to start wondering whether you`ve been charged right !

I have some sympathy with you - it's the unexpected costs that hurt - on the other hand, if you'd known that the hire would cost 90 quid more than the raw hire fee, would you have turned it down or just built that into your budget?

 

I recently (OK a couple of years ago) helped a lass with a few swing bridges - she was on her own till the following day - and got into conversation with her: I was staggered by the hire charge she paid, in 4 figures per week! If broads hire charges are similar, less than a hundred quid on the bill is peanuts. It's still a blow when you get an unexpected extra.

 

On cost per litre, the best I've paid in the last 6 months is 80p/1.30 a litre with others charging up to 20p extra - in all cases a supplier who allows you to make your own declaration on the propulsion/domestic heating-charging split, so offering the best duty rates, is better than one who doesn't offer that option. As with hire cars, it pays to fill up at the best rate available before taking the vehicle/vessel back to base; the hire firm has little incentive to provide cheap fuel...

 

Console yourself with the fact that your bill probably made a slightly larger contribution to the NHS, schools and if only a penny or two, to humanitarian aid, etc...

 

Roger

Edited by MyLady
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.