Choices, choices...

[Fintan]

It's tough work trying to pick a boat

 

http://www.boatfinderbrokerage.co.uk/boat/110029/

This one is slightly more than I'd hoped to spend, and it has no stove. Also, the front entrance to the boat does not look terribly secure.

So, I suppose the questions are...

1) Am I an eejit for trying to find a decent boat under 20k?

2) How difficult and necessary is it to install a stove?

3) How likely is it that someone will break in and steal me?

[junior]

A stove would be a necessity for me as I think it would be for most. I've seen prices of £1000 to £1500 for solid fuel stove installation.

[Phil Ambrose]

On the other hand a stove installation can cost circa £500

Choices are Rolls Royce V Dacia

Phil

[Neil2]

On the face of it there's nothing particularly against the boat, Hallmark were unashamedly budget builders but I've come across a few of these and the owners seemed very happy. At that price you would expect to get her for under £20,000 which seems cheap for a 15 year old boat, but the truth is probably in the owner fit out which looks ok in the photos but I bet you is very amateurish in the flesh.

 

Fitting a stove is within the compass of a competent DIYer, depending on what stove you buy I reckon £500 to £1000 would cover it. If you have to get the work done I'm guessing £250-300 for the labour?

[cheshire~rose]

Doors can be replaced.

 

We have no windows at all in the front of our boat and I hate having the doors closed when on the move if I am inside as I can only see what is passing the side windows not what is ahead.

 

There are other ways to secure the front - I have seen boats with a panel covering the front that is fixed in place with a bar that locks.

 

All second hand boats end up a bit of a compromise, just work out which things are deal breakers for you and whether they can be changed at a cost that is not prohibitive to your budget. If the boat ticks the majority of your boxes and "feels" right then it is time to consider a survey

[Alan de Enfield]

Our first NB was a Hallmark 'Millenium' 1999. we did not know it at the time but Hallmark are the "Trabants" of the waterways - even lower down the build quality scale than a Lada.

It was two years old when we bought it, but it looked like an abused 15 year old boat.

 

We had it for 3 years and it was wonderful, the engine & gearbox (Sole MItsubishi) never missed a beat, was basic but and after rebuilding the lounge it was a comfortable 'holiday boat'

 

Yes - Front doors very, very flimsy

Design fault - if a leaf falls on the cruiser stern the drain down the steps floods and water fils the cabin. you WILL need a pram hood. Build it into the price.

 

Here is ours

 

[junior]

I think Ricco1 bought a Hallmark boat last year and hasn't been without his fair share of problems, although he didn't have a survey. Perhaps a PM to him and he might tell you if any of those problems are likely to be Hallmark generic.

[Richard10002]

I bought a 2001 Gary Gorton 45ft cruiser stern for £18k in 2011. Saw lots of boats like the OP mentions for around £25k, and many of them sold whilst I was looking, but I don't know how much for.

 

Hallmark are budget boats, and there are lots more boats for sale. If you like the one you're looking at at, I'd bid £15k, and see what the counter offer was. Sub £20k, it might not be a bad deal, subject to survey.

[Fintan]

Well, it's summertime now, so I'd have a few months to get the stove installed, so that's not concerning me overmuch at the moment. I've also, after some reading here, decided I'm happy to settle for a cassette instead of a pumpout.

I would probably reinforce the doors at the front.

 

I was trying to avoid having to use a hood though - I was looking forward to having the wind and rain whipping through what's left of my hair

 

I've sent a message to Ricco, as suggested.

 

 

You guys are great.

[Neil2]

Well, it's summertime now, so I'd have a few months to get the stove installed, so that's not concerning me overmuch at the moment. I've also, after some reading here, decided I'm happy to settle for a cassette instead of a pumpout.

I would probably reinforce the doors at the front.

 

I was trying to avoid having to use a hood though - I was looking forward to having the wind and rain whipping through what's left of my hair

 

I've sent a message to Ricco, as suggested.

 

 

You guys are great.

 

Quite right. Boating is an outdoor activity.

 

But on a cruiser you are far more exposed (to the elements) than in a trad, which is one reason why you see increasing numbers of cruisers with pram covers. Unless for some reason you really do need all that cockpit space I'd seriously consider a trad stern boat.

[Fintan]

I've no problem with a trad stern - I'd not given much thought to the type of stern at all - it's just that the cruiser sterns seem to be the ones that pop up the most regularly.

The only thing I think I'm being really picky about is the landline for the electricity, which I'll need because I'll be stationary in the marina most of the time.

With that restriction, and budgetary constraints, the trad sterns are thin on the ground:

 

http://www.apolloduck.com/advert.phtml?id=335495 is a little small, perhaps and

http://www.apolloduck.com/feature.phtml?id=307130 has a diesel stove

but then maybe those two problems aren't really reasonable problems at all...

 

How does one decide which things to compromise on?

[Neil2]

Subjectively I would agree, particularly at the budget end of the market cruisers are more prevalent. But believe me, for your needs a trad is what you want. I would only have another cruiser if I intended doing most of my boating on rivers.

 

You can easily install an electric hook up, it's a fairly easy DIY job, so don't have that on your list of requirements.

 

I have a real soft spot for those H&L Marlins, and if I was single that's the sort of thing I would go for. That particular boat has been for sale for ages and I reckon you could buy it for next to nothing. However, what you do have to bear in mind with anything under 40 foot, maybe even 45 foot nowadays, is that the market for these boats is rapidly dwindling away, and 30 foot boats are really struggling to find buyers. This situation is not going to improve so if you do go for something like that you are sacrificing one of the big advantages of buying a narrowboat ie that you can always sell it if needs be.

 

 

[Fintan]

You can easily install an electric hook up, it's a fairly easy DIY job, so don't have that on your list of requirements.

 

I have a real soft spot for those H&L Marlins, and if I was single that's the sort of thing I would go for. That particular boat has been for sale for ages and I reckon you could buy it for next to nothing. However, what you do have to bear in mind with anything under 40 foot, maybe even 45 foot nowadays, is that the market for these boats is rapidly dwindling away, and 30 foot boats are really struggling to find buyers. This situation is not going to improve so if you do go for something like that you are sacrificing one of the big advantages of buying a narrowboat ie that you can always sell it if needs be.

 

 

 

I fear you may be overestimating my DIY capabilities!

 

The Marlin is growing on me - though it wouldn't be very suitable for having family and friends visit. I'm quite taken with the tug-style fore deck...

[Richard10002]

Just to level the playing field:

 

A trad stern wouldn't fit me, my wife, our dog, and a couple of friends, whilst cruising along. I wanted a cruiser stern and, with hindsight, might now consider a semi-trad.

 

So it's horses for courses - A trad stern generally gives more internal space, which might suit. I would not have one.

[junior]

Just to level the playing field:

 

A trad stern wouldn't fit me, my wife, our dog, and a couple of friends, whilst cruising along. I wanted a cruiser stern and, with hindsight, might now consider a semi-trad.

 

So it's horses for courses - A trad stern generally gives more internal space, which might suit. I would not have one.

Horses for courses. I couldn't think of anything worse that having a wife or family/dogs stood on the stern with me! I lost count over the winter the amount of times someone with a cruiser stern passed me looking like the most miserable gnome in the world because they were soaked and frozen and I was toasty warm with three quarters of me inside the boat.

[Richard10002]

Horses for courses. I couldn't think of anything worse that having a wife or family/dogs stood on the stern with me! I lost count over the winter the amount of times someone with a cruiser stern passed me looking like the most miserable gnome in the world because they were soaked and frozen and I was toasty warm with three quarters of me inside the boat.

 

I like wife, dog, and friends

 

After 40 years of sailing the high seas, I have waterproof gear that keeps me dry, warm and toasty in the heaviest downpours, on the coldest of days.

 

Having said that, if its cold and wet, we tend to stay put unless there is an urgent need to move. Occasionally, I've been taken by surprise, but its rare that you cant just pull over and get dressed up, or wait it out.

[mark99]

I've tried them all many times (Trad, Semi and Cruiser). All have disadvantages/advantages.

 

If I was forced to rank them it would be Trad, Semi, Cruiser. I do remember feeling exposed on a cruiser and people getting in the way!

Edited April 29, 2014 by mark99

[Fintan]

I really like the tug type with the large fore deck.

Currently looking at this one:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/47-foot-Stowe-hill-Tug-style-narrowboat-currently-on-the-Llangollen-canal-/400706168263

It's also a trad stern, so there's that...

It seems to have a stove and the door seems secure, and it has a landline for power...

It even comes with a chessboard!

On the other hand, there's no shower... How difficult/costly is a shower to install?

And what further problems can the good people of the forum spot?

[Clifford]

"Trad stern gives more internal space" yawn.

 

Not USEFUL internal space. It's filled with a boxed-in engine that makes it difficult to get to the back deck.

 

Now a proper engine room, that's different...

[Fintan]

Sigh. So that boat above has been sold before I got a chance to go and view it.

 

 

Spurred on by this, I have arranged to view the little Marlin tomorrow. Any advice on what I should look out for/ask?

 

 

 

Edit: never mind - seems the boat doesn't have a shower. Sigh.

Edited May 24, 2014 by Fintan

[Fintan]

So I'm going to view that 45' cruiser stern http://www.boatfinderbrokerage.co.uk/boat/110029/ tomorrow.

 

Any tips/advice as to what I should look out for/ask?

 

Seems I need to remember to include the cost of a stove and possibly a hood.

[Fintan]

So, I viewed this boat yesterday, and felt like a complete eejit, not really knowing what I was supposed to be looking for/asking etc.

 

The boat does badly need to be repainted though - any idea how much this ought to cost?

I've seen mention of a 5k, which certainly puts the boat out of budget for me.

 

There was originally a stove on the boat, but the current owners had it removed in favour of central heating, which does mean that the space and vent for the stove are already there if I need it.

I think I might try to get by without the pram hood for the moment.

 

The boat seems to handle fine. I have no knowledge of electrics or engines, I'm afraid, so I don't have any reason to expect that all is not well there...

 

 

Is offering £15k not a bit cheeky? And how does one generally proceed - offer, haggle, agree on a price subject to survey and then have a survey done?

[BlueStringPudding]

On the face of it there's nothing particularly against the boat, Hallmark were unashamedly budget builders but I've come across a few of these and the owners seemed very happy. At that price you would expect to get her for under £20,000 which seems cheap for a 15 year old boat, but the truth is probably in the owner fit out which looks ok in the photos but I bet you is very amateurish in the flesh.

 

Fitting a stove is within the compass of a competent DIYer, depending on what stove you buy I reckon £500 to £1000 would cover it. If you have to get the work done I'm guessing £250-300 for the labour?

My stove installation cost £600 all in. I did most of the work myself except the stuff I didn't have the kit for (like cutting a hole in the roof).

 

 

Oh, and the boat I bought was advertised as £9k more than I could afford. I just offered the amount I could afford and it was accepted. So don't offer £22k if you can't afford it. Look for what's not great on the boat and use that as the justification for the size of your offer. And make sure you save enough to have a stove fitted, survey and replacement consumables like batteries.

Edited May 27, 2014 by BlueStringPudding

[Richard10002]

Where is the fridge? Couldn't see it in the video. Not sure I like the idea of a 240V fridge - it means your inverter is on 24/7, with the associated efficiency losses. Lots of people have 240V stuff, so it's not wrong - I just don't like it

 

Does it really need a full repaint, or just a bit of touching up and a polish? In the video it doesn't look too bad?

[John Williamson 1955]

Horses for courses. I couldn't think of anything worse that having a wife or family/dogs stood on the stern with me! I lost count over the winter the amount of times someone with a cruiser stern passed me looking like the most miserable gnome in the world because they were soaked and frozen and I was toasty warm with three quarters of me inside the boat.

The compromise on mine is a very short open stern deck, so that with a slight extension of the tiller handle or a long arm, I can stand inside the stern doors, with the warm air from the engine bay wafting round me. (I think it's the hull that Springer call "Tug Style".)

 

It wouldn't be too hard to install a heater run off the cooling system should I feel the need. 3 kilowatts of genuinely free heat round my ankles when the engine's running. It could even be installed to blow warm air onto the stern deck with a bit of trickery in the wiring.