Canals and alcohol

[leeco]

I tried mushrooms as a kid. Never again.

[John V]

So, aside from the fact that cannabis is harmless and alcohol in excess can be deadly,

 

patently false

 

I have never claimed that it was as dangerous as alcohol, I have merely stated that it is dangerous and to claim it is not is a load of claptrap

[Paul G2]

 

post #85 drug related mortality

 

Get back to me when you learn the difference between a scientific study and a chart. Absent any information on how that little tiny red box came to be, and exactly what it signifies, and who reached the conclusion that a death might have been marijuana related, that box doesn't mean much.

 

This is the problem with you drug warriors. You try to glob on to any tiny bit of justification for your absurd prejudice against a plant. Get some facts and statistics together that prove your absurd claims or quit repeating them! You have no proof of that marijuana is harmful. The best you can hope for is that you can yell louder and longer than those who would expose your fallacies for what they are.

[John V]

 

Get back to me when you learn the difference between a scientific study and a chart. Absent any information on how that little tiny red box came to be, and exactly what it signifies, and who reached the conclusion that a death might have been marijuana related, that box doesn't mean much.

 

This is the problem with you drug warriors. You try to glob on to any tiny bit of justification for your absurd prejudice against a plant. Get some facts and statistics together that prove your absurd claims or quit repeating them! You have no proof of that marijuana is harmful. The best you can hope for is that you can yell louder and longer than those who would expose your fallacies for what they are.

 

there are plenty of scientific studies showing plenty of dangers of cannabis, I am not going to waste my time hunting them down for a person whose idea of a reasoned argument is to lose his temper on a forum

[Paul G2]

PaulG2

Straight question, do you smoke dope?

I cannot provide any double blind trials etc but having worked in the music industry for 40years I have seen the results of excess consumption. I have lost count of those that have departed from drug use.

 

.

 

Define dope?

 

See, your problem is that you are taking all drugs and combining them in one category and then assigning blame for bad things across the board to everything you included in that category. That's drug warrior thinking, not real world thinking. Not one person has ever OD'd on pot - never even one. (Those who wish to dispute this, provide an ME report or don't reply because the fact is there is no real proof anywhere in this world of even one death directly attributable to marijuana overdose.)

[carlt]

 

patently false

 

I have never claimed that it was as dangerous as alcohol, I have merely stated that it is dangerous and to claim it is not is a load of claptrap

Cannabis is not dangerous but doing some things whilst smoking cannabis can be...a bit like using your mobile phone whilst driving.

 

Statistically Cannabis is far safer than many other things in life that don't appear to create the same hysteria.

[John V]

Cannabis is not dangerous but doing some things whilst smoking cannabis can be...a bit like using your mobile phone whilst driving.

 

Statistically Cannabis is far safer than many other things in life that don't appear to create the same hysteria.

 

statistically it may be far safer than riding a motorcycle but as far as I know, there is no link between long term motorcycling and paranoia

[Barry]

 

Get back to me when you learn the difference between a scientific study and a chart. Absent any information on how that little tiny red box came to be, and exactly what it signifies, and who reached the conclusion that a death might have been marijuana related, that box doesn't mean much.

 

This is the problem with you drug warriors. You try to glob on to any tiny bit of justification for your absurd prejudice against a plant. Get some facts and statistics together that prove your absurd claims or quit repeating them! You have no proof of that marijuana is harmful. The best you can hope for is that you can yell louder and longer than those who would expose your fallacies for what they are.

 

Bring me proof, bring me proof - anything less means it is harmless. Is that your position Paul?

 

When observational, anecdotal evidence is there in plenty surely there is nothing wrong, indeed it might even be wise, to say "there is enough here to warrant caution"

 

"bring me proof and until you do it must be harmless" smacks to me of, at best, intellectual posturing - and at worst, of foolish, ostrich head in the sand posturing

[Paul G2]

 

there are plenty of scientific studies showing plenty of dangers of cannabis, I am not going to waste my time hunting them down for a person whose idea of a reasoned argument is to lose his temper on a forum

 

ROFLMAO - I didn't think you would proffer any proof, primarily because you can't find any, but also because people like you are all opinion and no proof. You know you are right, that is all that matters to you.

 

BTW - telling you that you are wrong is not losing my temper, it is merely telling you that you are wrong.

 

 

patently false

 

I have never claimed that it was as dangerous as alcohol, I have merely stated that it is dangerous and to claim it is not is a load of claptrap

Provide proof - real proof. Simple challenge but you can't do it.

 

Here, educate yourself:

 

http://grannystormcrowslist.webs.com/

 

"If the truth won't do, something is wrong!"

[John V]

 

ROFLMAO - I didn't think you would proffer any proof, primarily because you can't find any, but also because people like you are all opinion and no proof. You know you are right, that is all that matters to you.

 

BTW - telling you that you are wrong is not losing my temper, it is merely telling you that you are wrong.

 

Provide proof - real proof. Simple challenge but you can't do it.

 

Here, educate yourself:

 

http://grannystormcrowslist.webs.com/

 

"If the truth won't do, something is wrong!"

 

 

www.sane .com

[Paul G2]

 

Bring me proof, bring me proof - anything less means it is harmless. Is that your position Paul?

 

When observational, anecdotal evidence is there in plenty surely there is nothing wrong, indeed it might even be wise, to say "there is enough here to warrant caution"

 

"bring me proof and until you do it must be harmless" smacks to me of, at best, intellectual posturing - and at worst, of foolish, ostrich head in the sand posturing

 

First of all, several people have mentioned "drugs" and "dope" as being the villains in their scenarios. I am talking only about cannabis, not any other drugs. It might be intellectual posturing, if it weren't for the fact that I've researched this subject and know what I'm talking about, whereas those repeating anecdotes and drug war propaganda really don't understand that such things are statistically meaningless.

 

Take a quick look at this page:

 

http://www.michiganmedicalmarijuanaclub.org/general-news-a-info/54-granny-storm-crows-list-2013

 

See the list on that page? That's an index of real, scientific studies done on cannabis. Some of those studies set out to show that marijuana is harmful, none of them succeeded.

 

Now, please show me the index of the real scientific studies that show that marijuana is harmful.

 

"If the truth won't do, something is wrong!"

[RLWP]

 

there are plenty of scientific studies showing plenty of dangers of cannabis, I am not going to waste my time hunting them down for a person whose idea of a reasoned argument is to lose his temper on a forum

 

No point anyway, it would be dismissed as 'drug war propaganda'

 

Paul G2, you come across very aggressively on this subject

 

Richard

Edited April 14, 2014 by RLWP

[carlt]

Yeah don't Bogart this thread my friend!

[John V]

 

No point anyway, it would be dismissed as 'drug war propaganda'

 

Paul G2, you come across very aggressively on this subject

 

Richard

 

 

very true... i have been thinking my analogy in #107 was probably a bad choice because speaking as an ex biker, I think you have to be nuts to get on a motorbike anyway

[PaulG]

Yeah don't Bogart this thread my friend!

Since we are way off topic anyway, I watched "Easy Rider" on one of the satellite channels the other night.

How that brought back memories of my miss-spent youth!

[Djuwenda]

 

 

Paul G2, you come across very aggressively on this subject

 

 

Does he really?

I think he makes an interesting point and cant see a problem with the way he makes it.

[RLWP]

 

Does he really?

I think he makes an interesting point and cant see a problem with the way he makes it.

 

Just how I experience his posts

 

Richard

[carlt]

Well perhaps we all should take a chill pill.

[Djuwenda]

to be fair to him, he keeps putting the same point forward which systematically gets ignored...

a sure way to clear this would be to address said point.

[carlt]

 

a sure way to clear this would be to address said point.

The problem then arises that it is difficult to address said point but many people, despite recognising that difficulty, cannot change such engrained opinions.

[Sir Nibble]

I have two or three times been in a position to counter the "drug crazed fiend/reefer madness" stuff by pointing out that the perfectly lucid cheerful character they are talking to is happily stoned. After years and years of seeing the whole thing viewed through a lens of misinformation and hysteria I can no longer be arsed with the "legalise it" debate. Every time I hear how much this or that (drink, smoking) costs the NHS I find myself wondering what costs to the NHS arise from sport. But a sunday morning footballer breaking a leg is "good" and a drunk turning his ankle is "bad". Ultimately I cannot understand why anyone would chose to parent me at my age and ban me from certain activities that might harm me. I can deliberately kill myself with poison quite legally but not smoke a spliff because mummy says it's harmful. I can throw myself from a cliff without breaking the law but ride to said cliff on a moped and I am breaking the law if I don't wear a helmet, a blatant seizing of my adult autonomy by the great state mummy in case I hurt myself.

Go bungee jumping, shark taunting, go in for any crazy life threatening stunt and you will be applauded for your daring but light up a joint and you are a sad self destructive!

Do as you please, be as drunk or as stoned as you like, if you're putting no one else at risk then I really don't care.

[John V]

to be fair to him, he keeps putting the same point forward which systematically gets ignored...

a sure way to clear this would be to address said point.

 

Google cannabis links to mental health and read some of the links to mental health charities.

 

If one person is saying categorically that something is completely safe (which must make it about the only thing in the known universe that is) and someone else is saying "hey I've got evidence that this is a bit dodgy" you would be a blxxdy fool to totally accept the first

 

edit to catch up...I'm not speaking for or against use. What I have been saying all along is that to claim something is totally safe, when there is considerable evidence to show that it is not....is plainly batty

 

edit to add some punctuation

Edited April 14, 2014 by John V

[Sir Nibble]

Nothing is safe, life is invariably fatal

[LoneWolf]

 

Google cannabis links to mental health and read some of the links to mental health charities.

 

If one person is saying categorically that something is completely safe (which must make it about the only thing in the known universe that is) and someone else is saying "hey I've got evidence that this is a bit dodgy" you would be a blxxdy fool to totally accept the first

 

edit to catch up...I'm not speaking for or against use what I have been saying all along is that to claim something is totally safe when there is considerable evidence to show that it is not....is plainly batty

 

But we haven't seen any evidence (on this thread) that cannabis is 'a bit dodgy'

 

 

Not sure why you cited post 85 as 'evidence' of cannabis mortality because if you bother to read the key you'll see that direct mortality is zero for cannabis according to the table in post 85

 

you need to educate yourself dude

[Paul G2]

 

No point anyway, it would be dismissed as 'drug war propaganda'

 

Paul G2, you come across very aggressively on this subject

 

Richard

 

Richard,

 

I will dismiss as 'drug war propaganda' only that which is propaganda, rather than fact. For example, the whole "gateway drug" theory is nothing but pure propaganda. There is absolutely no real causative evidence whatsoever that marijuana leads to harder drugs. The same methodology that could be used to show that marijuana leads to harder drugs could be used to show that milk leads to harder drugs. If the methodology is bad then the results are bad and then you have propaganda, not scientific proof.

 

I apologize if I seem overly aggressive on this topic. I've been involved in the effort to have marijuana prohibition ended and it really gets tiresome when people spew drug war propaganda as if it were fact. If I seem aggressive, perhaps it is because there is a sense of urgency in this arena. Between 2006 to 2013 approximately 120,000 Mexicans were killed in the drug war, and an additional 27,000 went missing. Mexico is wonderful country with some really nice people. They don't deserve to be the victims of our failed drug prohibition policies. Real people are dying in this failed war on drugs. Maybe it's time for a little aggression in the effort to end that bloodshed.

 

Marijuana is legally available where I live (California), and legally available where I'm going (Netherlands) so drug warriors' opinions don't really affect me. However, the drug wars have caused more societal and familial damage than the drugs they are they trying to combat ever did, and that is a great injustice that needs to be spoken out against and stopped. People like John V think that their opinions (offered as facts) are harmless and that they are entitled to their wrong opinions and their wrong "facts" because they are entitled to be ignorant and because their ignorance isn't hurting anyone. The trouble is, their ignorance is very badly hurting hundreds of thousands of people worldwide and it is not harmless and it needs to stop.