Looking at narrowboats

[Alan de Enfield]

junior, on 30 Apr 2014 - 3:51 PM, said:

Most of them are documented on the forum in one form or another and most are to do with the engine which is well over 50 years old and nothing to do with the thickness of the hull.

 

I know that but the point I was trying (unsuccesfully) to make was that not only is it a 35 year old hull, but the engine, gearbox, fittings, fit out etc etc are probably 35 years old as well.

And - maintenance / replacement of an 'unloved' engine of that age could potentially cost more than a hull re-plate.

 

Buying a nice shiny hull with a reasonable steel thickness, even having a survey, does not imply 'no costs' in the near future.

Edited April 30, 2014 by Alan de Enfield

[Paul G2]

 

I know that but the point I was trying (unsuccesfully) to make was that not only is it a 35 year old hull, but the engine, gearbox, fittings, fit out etc etc are probably 35 years old as well.

And - maintenance / replacement of an 'unloved' engine of that age could potentially cost more than a hull re-plate.

 

Buying a nice shiny hull with a reasonable steel thickness, even having a survey, does not imply 'no costs' in the near future.

 

Just out of curiosity, what is the approximate cost of a complete, out of boat, get everything as near new as possible kind of rebuild on an engine like Junior's?

[Jim Batty]

Just to give a different view, I bought a 1977 boat last year (so only a year younger) that was made with 6mm steel. It hasn't been overplated and survey showed a minimum of 5.3mm in the worst places.

 

I also paid a figure around what you think is overpriced, and I haven't met anyone yet who's said it wasn't a good deal.

 

That's great. Obviously it depends on how well the hull (and everything else) has been looked after over the years. I wasn't warning against buying the boat, I was simply saying be wary and keep your eyes open. Our experience with having a 1982 converted hire boat surveyed indicated 4.2mm pitting on the outside and 1.7mm corrosion on the inside of a 6mm steel bottom. those numbers gave me vertigo.

 

BTW, as far as we could tell (surveyor, us, seller) the reason the hull was so bad was because the proud elderly owners had left the blacking to their marina to do for the previous 10 years -- who had blacked with only a couple of very thin roller applications every three years.

 

Re price: Clearly a lot will depend on quality/age/condition of the fitout and steelwork. And having modern electronics/electrics, central heating, top-end kitchen equipment, etc can easily raise the value/price of an older boat by a goodly amount. I was just going by what I could see in the online pics: dated but nice, clean, sturdy fitout.

 

I'm sure you have a beautiful boat!

[Felshampo]

Thanks Martin for the link. And thanks to everyone else for your comments.

We have decided to pass on this one and keep looking.

 

I know many liveaboards prefer trad sterns for the extra space, but we have decided that the convoluted gymnastics required to enter the boat from the stern are not for us . And we would need a cruiser stern for the dogs really too.

 

Since arriving home I have found that Venetian marina are a branch of Another Marina which does not seem to have a great reputation. Does this then mean the same concerns expressed about The Other on here are valid for Venetian?

Beware if you intend to do a lot of cruising, cruiser sterns can be cold as you are always at the back out of the shelter of the cabin.

[Richard10002]

Beware if you intend to do a lot of cruising, cruiser sterns can be cold as you are always at the back out of the shelter of the cabin.

Fit a canopy, or buy one with an existing one - budget about £1000 or so.

[MtB]

 

Just out of curiosity, what is the approximate cost of a complete, out of boat, get everything as near new as possible kind of rebuild on an engine like Junior's?

 

Anything from £5k to £25k I'd say, depending on the catalogue of problems revealed on strip-down.

 

This assumes you are paying someone to do everything for you.

 

 

MtB

[grannykins]

What a lot of comments, and useful points raised. Thanks to everyone for your contributions. Lots to think about here as usual.

[Athy]

 

Definitely not a Liverpool boat. Their signature 'scroll' is missing from the bow.

 

.

 

MtB

Earlier Liverpools did not have this feature. Our last boat 'Batto', on a Liverpool shell built in 2000 or 2001, did have the attractive scrollwork, which I think was introduced about 1994. I see that their successors, Collingwood's, appear to have done away with it, which is a pity.

[nomad - tuttle hill]

check out appolloduck uk some nice boats on site , whilton bit over price for what there are! been to brauston today lot of boats under offer .

[grannykins]

Went for a look around Whilton. Lots of boats, but even to my inexperienced eyes many of them seemed overpriced. Bit of a moot point now, as we've found we definitely have to wait till the end of 2016 to be able to buy one suitable for a liveaboard.

 

At least we have our cruiser - although I'm having a bit of trouble with one of my hips and its making getting on and off a bit difficult. Thats one of the reasons we were thinking of getting the narrowboat earlier - they are much easier to get on and off!

[FadeToScarlet]

Anything from £5k to £25k I'd say, depending on the catalogue of problems revealed on strip-down.

 

This assumes you are paying someone to do everything for you.

 

 

MtB

You could buy several PH2s or PH2Ws for that, and just cannibalise a decent engine from them.

[junior]

 

Anything from £5k to £25k I'd say, depending on the catalogue of problems revealed on strip-down.

 

This assumes you are paying someone to do everything for you.

 

 

MtB

Not that I expected it to be cheap at all, but is the majority of that cost labour? What would be the difference in work carried out during a 5k overhaul and say a 25k overhaul? Surely everything would get gold plated for 25k?

[littledice]

Since arriving home I have found that Venetian marina are a branch of Another Marina which does not seem to have a great reputation. Does this then mean the same concerns expressed about The Other on here are valid for Venetian?

FYI, I've just dealt with Venetian and they were really helpful and reasonable. They patiently answered all my questions, told me quite candidly which boats they thought were overpriced and deserved a much lower offer, and more or less advised me against a Springer boat that I was looking at on the grounds that it would probably need plating work. I decided to put an offer in and get a survey anyway and when it came back showing it needed overplating, they gave me my deposit back no questions asked. I'd definitely deal with them again.

[Clifford]

There's a very strong temptation to go for the first 'likely' boat very early in the process. I think we were a bit hasty, actually, but got away with it.

 

Do you REALLY need to choose so quickly? There is no shortage of boats for sale. Or are you sensing that prices are starting to rise? I'd say enjoy the buying process - get a feeling for the features you really want.

 

Unless you are after something unusual and hard to find, don't be hasty in going for a boat that will need altering to suit you. Ironically, another poster on here has been saying how unusual two-bedroom boats are. So why pick one if you don't want that?

 

Good hunting. ENJOY looking, don't think of it as a chore.

 

Hobby-horse alert : What "extra internal space" do non-BMC trads provide exactly? Usually just a welly-shelf over the engine and a contortionist bent-double right-angle staircase. There are exceptions, I know, where the over-engine space is a guest bed or something, but these are rare, I think.

 

Hobby-horse rant over....

[Ssscrudddy]

Hobby-horse alert : What "extra internal space" do non-BMC trads provide exactly? Usually just a welly-shelf over the engine and a contortionist bent-double right-angle staircase. There are exceptions, I know, where the over-engine space is a guest bed or something, but these are rare, I think.

Depends on how the boards are done I suppose. My modern engine under the floor is very easy to get to. All the boards & floor support structures come out. It's also easy getting in & out with the boards in place, & all the crap stored in there. The crap being laundry basket, several rucksacks, a waist height barbecue (like this argos linky), charcoal, rubber ring, tool box, pins chains windlasses etc.

Yet my sisters boat with the same amount of space is harder to get in & out of, less space for crap somehow, & loads harder to get at the engine, & virtually impossible to get at the batteries.

You wouldnt get a bed in either of them.

Edited May 9, 2014 by Ssscrudddy

[Clifford]

I know they vary. On of the best features of a trad stern must be being able to get to the engine in the dry. But some we looked at had no space forward of the engine so the only access was from on top (like a cruiser, but less room to wriggle around to get at stuff). An extra foot or so of space forward of the engine and it looked like you get really good access.

 

But as regards storage space, a semitrad can give you two big external lockers over the engine instead of the internal over-engine space of a trad stern. Not a bad swap. Yet some people say 'trads have more useful internal space' as though they think all trads have an extra bedroom or something, compared to a semitrad of the same length.

 

I'm not knocking trad sterns, we could easily have bought one. I never thought we'd end up with a semitrad and the stern type wasn't the reason we choose the boat we did.