Running a Webasto on Red Diesel

[Alway Swilby]

We picked up our new boat yesterday (Yay!). It has twin diesel tanks. The vendor said we must only put white diesel in the heating tank otherwise the Webasto will clog up and die. Is there any truth in this ? Getting hold of white diesel canalside isn't very easy.

[Arphamoe]

They all do eventually, but mine has been run on red for 8 years to my knowledge and apart from service and one pump repair - no problems!

[Martin Megson]

My Eberspasher runs fine on red diesel as I only have the one tank.

I think he may be getting confused with bio diesel which I wouldn't use.

 

Just found this on the Webasto FAQ page.

 

Will they run on Red Diesel?

This is probably the most common question asked and the short answer is yes! In fact red diesel actually burns slightly hotter than standard white low sulphur diesel and therefore is more efficient. As with any fuel, it is the quality that matters. The main problem with red diesel, and the inland waterways especially, is there are many different places to buy diesel from and it all depends on how it was stored?, where it was bought from?, how long has it been in storage?, has the tank been drained and checked for water and deposit build up?, how long has it been in the boats tank for and also the condition of the tanks internal surfaces? In general as long as the quality is good, there will never be a problem with running on red diesel. Webasto have been searching for ways to improve the fuel delivery to the heater to give the units the best chance possible of protection from sub standard fuels and now have a fuel filter kit available for all heater that needs to be installed in the fuel supply line before the pump. Please see our parts and accessories section for details on price and availability.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Meggers

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Hi ya,

Some sort of truth,maybe.but only as White tends to be cleaner due to it being for road use in cars.

But I've got A Webesto & an Eberspacher,I run them straight out of the main boat fuel tank on red diesel,through a filter and have never had a problem as a full time livaboard in over 6 years.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Paul's Nulife4-2

[Mike Todd]

We picked up our new boat yesterday (Yay!). It has twin diesel tanks. The vendor said we must only put white diesel in the heating tank otherwise the Webasto will clog up and die. Is there any truth in this ? Getting hold of white diesel canalside isn't very easy.

Try topic 6504 for a lengthy if dated discussion

[GUMPY]

This used to be true when red diesel was high sulpher

Things changed about 4 or so years ago and red on the cut is now exactly the same as white.

[Guest]

Our eight year old Webasto has been run on red and more recently white...it seems to be fine....

[raymondh]

We picked up our new boat yesterday (Yay!). It has twin diesel tanks. The vendor said we must only put white diesel in the heating tank otherwise the Webasto will clog up and die. Is there any truth in this ? Getting hold of white diesel canalside isn't very easy.

Hi,

Canal side "red" can be anything the vendor puts in his tank, genuine red, gas oil etc

Your heater will run on kerosene and at a lot less cost, circa 60p/litre for small qty ours has run on kerro for the last 6+ years

without any problems and its never been serviced or taken apart in this time (Web 90S)

It seems to be a game of chance some fail or and need constant service when used as sole heating others as ours liveaboard no problems

Ray

[Bobbybass]

I recently saw a setup...where the engine had a primary fuel filter/ sedimenter bowl ..before it fed the second filter.

 

The Eber had its supply tap 'T' junctioned after this filter...with a tap at that point...hence it's red diesel was filtered by the primary filter and sedimenter bowl.

 

Seemed (?) to make sense to me...but then strange things often make sense to me...

[Mike Todd]

Try topic 6504 for a lengthy if dated discussion

See also http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?22530-New-Ultra-Low-Sulphur-Red-Diesel-from-01-01-2011 and many others if you Google difference between red and white diesel. Including plenty of people who admit to committing an of fence on the grounds that they can get away with it.

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

I recently saw a setup...where the engine had a primary fuel filter/ sedimenter bowl ..before it fed the second filter.

 

The Eber had its supply tap 'T' junctioned after this filter...with a tap at that point...hence it's red diesel was filtered by the primary filter and sedimenter bowl.

 

Seemed (?) to make sense to me...but then strange things often make sense to me...

Yep.

Similar to what Ive got, and suggested in post 5.

And it seams to work for me to.

[Roadsteam]

On the advice of an Eibersbacher engineer from Northants Diesel in pre bio/low sulphur fuel days we ran the eibersbacher heater in the bosses Landy 101 from its own tank filled with Kero, as kero burnt cleaner than diesel.

[Naughty Cal]

Our Webasto is 11 years old, takes diesel from the main tank so has only ever run in red and has never missed a beat.

[nb Innisfree]

Gas oil which is high in sulphur used to sold as 'red diesel', if you were lucky you would get low sulphur road diesel with red dye added. Ebers and the like don't like high sulphur fuel, if it clogged up then it was most likely to be running on gas oil. About 4 years ago the EU banned the high sulphur stuff and oil manufacturers stopped producing it, since then Ebers etc don't clog up which used to be a common prob.

[cotswoldsman]

We picked up our new boat yesterday (Yay!). It has twin diesel tanks. The vendor said we must only put white diesel in the heating tank otherwise the Webasto will clog up and die. Is there any truth in this ? Getting hold of white diesel canalside isn't very easy.

Mine runs fine after 9 years but I do get it serviced every year

[furnessvale]

As a former retailer of red diesel, I do weary of the implication that somehow an inferior product was being "passed off" as red diesel.

 

Several years ago all diesel was high sulphur. If you used it off road they put a red dye in it and called it gas oil.

 

Then the government insisted on ultra low sulphur diesel (ULSD) being used for road application but continued to allow ordinary diesel to be used off road which continued to have the red dye applied.

 

More recently, the manufacturers have stopped making ordinary diesel so now they put the red dye in ULSD and sell it for off road use. I do not know if this change was a result of government intervention, or whether the manufacturers realised the cost of two different production lines was not worth it.

 

People still call the resultant product gas oil because that is what it is, white diesel with a dye added to show it is rebated duty for non road use. There is not, and never has been, any attempt to defraud. You order your red and you get what the wholesaler supplies, be it ULSD or original high sulphur diesel. Both are called gas oil and have been dyed.

 

Incidentally, whilst Webastos may dislike sulphur, many older engines love it, so one man's improvement is another's problem.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

Edited April 7, 2014 by furnessvale

[i love my narrowboat]

We picked up our new boat yesterday (Yay!). It has twin diesel tanks. The vendor said we must only put white diesel in the heating tank otherwise the Webasto will clog up and die. Is there any truth in this ? Getting hold of white diesel canalside isn't very easy.

 

We have only used red in ours and works perfectly . Get it serviced regularly too and if you can do that yourself, even better.

[nb Innisfree]

As a former retailer of red diesel, I do weary of the implication that somehow an inferior product was being "passed off" as red diesel.

 

Several years ago all diesel was high sulphur. If you used it off road they put a red dye in it and called it gas oil.

 

Then the government insisted on ultra low sulphur diesel (ULSD) being used for road application but continued to allow ordinary diesel to be used off road which continued to have the red dye applied.

 

More recently, the manufacturers have stopped making ordinary diesel so now they put the red dye in ULSD and sell it for off road use. I do not know if this change was a result of government intervention, or whether the manufacturers realised the cost of two different production lines was not worth it.

 

People still call the resultant product gas oil because that is what it is, white diesel with a dye added to show it is rebated duty for non road use. There is not, and never has been, any attempt to defraud. You order your red and you get what the wholesaler supplies, be ULSD or original diesel. Both are called gas oil and have been dyed.

 

Incidentally, whilst Webastos may dislike sulphur, many older engines love it, so one man's improvement is another's problem.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

I agree on the defraud thing, when I asked a couple of boatyards whether there red diesel was in fact high sulphur gas oil as opposed to white diesel with red dye, they had no knowledge of any difference and just sold what they were supplied. I once read of a tanker driver who said that if he was delivering a single load of red it would all be gas oil but if it was a split load, rather than having to carry it separately, it would all be white diesel and dye added to the relevant portion as it entered the customers tank. Can't say if that was true but It sounds plausible.

 

I must say though that our very troublesome Mikuni behaved perfectly when red ULSD became widely available, since then there seems to have been much less in the way of complaints with Mikuni/Webasto/Eberspacher etc.

Edited April 7, 2014 by nb Innisfree

[furnessvale]

I agree on the defraud thing, when I asked a couple of boatyards whether there red diesel was in fact high sulphur gas as opposed to white diesel with red dye, they had no knowledge of any difference and just sold what they were supplied. I once read of a tanker driver who said that if he was delivering a single load of red it would all be gas oil but if it was a split load, rather than having to carry it separately, it would all be white diesel and dye added to the relevant portion as it entered the customers tank. Can't say if that was true but It sounds plausible.

 

I must say though that our very troublesome Mikuni behaved perfectly when red ULSD became widely available, since then there seems to have been much less in the way of complaints with Mikuni/Webasto/Eberspacher etc.

Sounds very implausible to me, given the strict controls imposed by HMRC to avoid fraud, unless the tanker had some sort of tamperproof dye adding device, which also recorded what it had done so that HMRC could check. I know I could always do a VERY good deal with the suppliers if the driver had a part load to return to the depot, because of the HMRC hassle it caused.

 

*I can well believe that. I think these various manufacturers are the ones who have been selling machines not fit for purpose for many years and are only now being saved by the accident of ULSD red.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[nb Innisfree]

Sounds very implausible to me, given the strict controls imposed by HMRC to avoid fraud, unless the tanker had some sort of tamperproof dye adding device, which also recorded what it had done so that HMRC could check. I know I could always do a VERY good deal with the suppliers if the driver had a part load to return to the depot, because of the HMRC hassle it caused

George ex nb Alton retired

I can't see how it could be fraud, if a load of white was delivered and then dyed it would render expensive diesel less valuable, the only way HMRC could lose out is if dye was removed. I believe the supplier is rsponsible for adding dye.

[Bunny]

9 years and counting, only ever used red off the main tank, its used In the summer too for hot water before 8am or after 8pm . Did ask our engineer to service it about 5 years ago but he said its at such a funny angle best leave it till it goes wrong. Bunny

[furnessvale]

I can't see how it could be fraud, if a load of white was delivered and then dyed it would render expensive diesel less valuable, the only way HMRC could lose out is if dye was removed. I believe the supplier is rsponsible for adding dye.

The fraud can occur when the dyer, whoever he may be, declares more white has been dyed, and thus relieved of duty, than actually occurred. It was always my understanding that the dying operation was closely monitored by HMRC.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[Dekazer]

Sorry to be slightly off-topic, but while we're talking Webastos.... We just bought a new boat that has two heating methods - electric heaters while on shore powr, and a diesel powered Webasto. It's newly fitted, so very new.

 

Is it normal that while it's running it makes everything stink of diesel fumes?!

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Sorry to be slightly off-topic, but while we're talking Webastos.... We just bought a new boat that has two heating methods - electric heaters while on shore powr, and a diesel powered Webasto. It's newly fitted, so very new.

 

Is it normal that while it's running it makes everything stink of diesel fumes?!

Was it Professionally fitted,Check where the Air intake is,in relation to the exhaust, Or any open windows ect,have you got a Co2 Alarm.

It just maybe a bit of surplus fuel being burned off of it hasn't been allowed to shut down properly for some reason,when last used, But check it out,don't leave it. Is my advice.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Paul's Nulife4-2

[nb Innisfree]

The fraud can occur when the dyer, whoever he may be, declares more white has been dyed, and thus relieved of duty, than actually occurred. It was always my understanding that the dying operation was closely monitored by HMRC.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

Yes I missed that.

 

So if dye can't be added at point of delivery then it's not possible to have a split load of white and red unless the tanker has two different tanks?