An Email To CaRT Re. Waterways Wanderers Scheme...

[The Anonymous Bard]

Just wondering what is going on with CaRT, I haven't visited this forum for some time (due to a certain ego-centric forum repellent who's a$$ I nailed to a plank on certain occasionS and whom I am sure will crop up shortly) but I have emailed them this evening regarding questions on an angling forum regarding their Waterways Wanderers Scheme only to get an auto-reply stating that their inbox is full?

 

 

 

Dear CaRT,

As both a narrowboater and an angler I am seeking some specific answers to questions regarding your Waterway Wanderers Scheme.

I am currently discussing this on a prominent angling forum and my first impressions are that few, if any anglers, have even heard of this.

In particular I would like to ascertain:

1) Of the £20 pounds asking fee what structure is in place to ensure re-investment in angling?

2) What percentage of this £20 will be re-invested to the direct benefit of the paying anglers?

3) How will any re-investment take place?

4) What research has taken place to support any intended re-investment?

5) Given that anglers in general appear totally unaware of this charge to fish canal waters which are not under the control of an individual club (where they would previously have enjoyed free fishing) what attempts will you be undertaking to raise their awareness?

6) How do you intend to enforce/bailiff this scheme?

7) In the event of an angler not being in the possession of a licence in a required area be found, what would be the outcome considering the lack of awareness?

I would be grateful if you could reply by number as opposed to statement to ensure that everything is covered and which will assist in challenging any particular answers.

Kind Regards,

[Boaty Jo]

“To unpathed waters, undreamed shores.” - WS

Methinks you fish for the unanswerable

[luctor et emergo]

??

[Loafer]

Wut?

[Naughty Cal]

[Martin Megson]

I'm confused. I thought that the canals were free to fish except in those areas where local angling clubs have secured the fishing right.

Can anyone confirm the situation for boaters?

[alan_fincher]

I haven't visited this forum for some time (due to a certain ego-centric forum repellent who's a$$ I nailed to a plank on certain occasionS and whom I am sure will crop up shortly)

Flushed them out yet?

[mayalld]

Just wondering what is going on with CaRT, I haven't visited this forum for some time (due to a certain ego-centric forum repellent who's a$$ I nailed to a plank on certain occasionS and whom I am sure will crop up shortly) but I have emailed them this evening regarding questions on an angling forum regarding their Waterways Wanderers Scheme only to get an auto-reply stating that their inbox is full?

 

 

 

Dear CaRT,

 

As both a narrowboater and an angler I am seeking some specific answers to questions regarding your Waterway Wanderers Scheme.

 

I am currently discussing this on a prominent angling forum and my first impressions are that few, if any anglers, have even heard of this.

 

In particular I would like to ascertain:

 

1) Of the £20 pounds asking fee what structure is in place to ensure re-investment in angling?

 

2) What percentage of this £20 will be re-invested to the direct benefit of the paying anglers?

 

3) How will any re-investment take place?

 

4) What research has taken place to support any intended re-investment?

 

5) Given that anglers in general appear totally unaware of this charge to fish canal waters which are not under the control of an individual club (where they would previously have enjoyed free fishing) what attempts will you be undertaking to raise their awareness?

 

6) How do you intend to enforce/bailiff this scheme?

 

7) In the event of an angler not being in the possession of a licence in a required area be found, what would be the outcome considering the lack of awareness?

 

I would be grateful if you could reply by number as opposed to statement to ensure that everything is covered and which will assist in challenging any particular answers.

 

Kind Regards,

 

 

Sounds like you have a bee in your bonnet about the fee, and that you are asking leading questions with a view to saying "aha, you don't spend the money on angling, so we shouldn't pay it".

 

As I see it, if you consider a length that is leased to an angling club;

 

1) The club charges a membership fee

2) The club pays CRT a fee for leasing the stretch

3) The club spends the rest of the money on improving the canal for angling

4) CRT spends its fee as it sees fit

 

The amount that is spent on improving the utility of the stretch for anglers is entirely down to how much (over and above the CRT fee) the club charges.

 

The Waterways Wanderers scheme is a special kind of club that charges just the CRT fee, with no additions for improving the fishery.

[john6767]

Knowing nothing about fishing, but being nosey, Google provides this link to the CRT web site which explains what the scheme is. However Google also pulls up this thread from the forum from 2010. So it would seem that this scheme is not new at all, and that it pre-dates CRT.

 

In fairness the OP did not say that it was new, but based on the old thread it would seem that this has been in place for at least 4 years, so I would suggest that anglers who do not know about it are not really taking their responsibilities seriously. Surely the first thing you do before deciding to go fishing in a location to to figure out if you have permission to do that ,and what you need to do to get the permission, just like any other activity you might want to partake in. I don't really see what the issue is, if fishing is your thing £20 pa to be able to fish quite a large number of sections of he waterways (there is a specific list linked to from the CRT web page) seems very good value for money.

[luctor et emergo]

A 'prominent angling forum'. I'm sure CRT will be concerned.

[carlt]

I don't see a problem with Anglers contributing to the upkeep of the waterways and, considering they use more canal space than the biggest canal boat, 20 quid does seem a bargain.

 

One bit of John6767's CRT link intrigued me though...

• Zander and non native crayfish must not be returned to the water once caught.

As an EA licence is required to remove crayfish from the water is this not encouraging anglers to break the law?

[Pete & Helen]

I don't see a problem with Anglers contributing to the upkeep of the waterways and, considering they use more canal space than the biggest canal boat, 20 quid does seem a bargain.

 

One bit of John6767's CRT link intrigued me though...

 

As an EA licence is required to remove crayfish from the water is this not encouraging anglers to break the law?

 

Carl, I think the issue with crayfish is that the non native are eating all the native crayfish, this is the ruling from the EA

 

Catching Crayfish

Anyone who wishes to fish for crayfish by any means (including hand-picking) needs a permission from us. We have strict rules in place to protect our native (white-clawed) crayfish,as well as controlling the spread of invasive non-native crayfish. It is important to make sure that the methods and equipment used are safe for other aquatic animals, like otters and water voles.

 

If you want to catch non-native crayfish it is vital that you follow the rules below to avoid breaking the law.

Rules to follow when catching crayfish

• Native (white-clawed) crayfish are a protected species. We provide authorisations for people who catch them to monitor their populations. You must not trap them to eat or sell. Be aware it is illegal to handle them without a licence from Natural England/Countryside Council for Wales
• Catching non-native crayfish is only allowed in certain areas of the country, due to the risks to native crayfish. Speak to your local fisheries officer if you are not sure which species is in your area
• You can fish for non-native crayfish, but only if you have written authorisation from us and you attach the identity tags that we send you to your trap(s) or fishing instrument
• Additional to our consent, you must also get permission from the landowner who owns the fishing rights for the pond or river

 

 

So yes you are right, but if you happen to hook a non native (as opposed to trying to actively trap them) then I think the EA would only thank you for not returning it to the water way

 

 

Edit - Just for clarity I have sent a message to EA asking if C&RT advice in not returning non native Crayfish and Zander is in anyway in contravention to their licencing. Will let you know if I hear back but suspect that they will say its ok if caught during normal line fishing

Edited March 26, 2014 by Pete & Helen

[carlt]

Carl, I think the issue with crayfish is that the non native are eating all the native crayfish, this is the ruling from the EA

They are not eating them. They carry a disease that they are immune to but is lethal to native crayfish hence the requirement for a licence.

 

The risk in taking American Signal Crayfish away from where they are caught is that the Crayfish Plague they carry is spread to other parts of the country.

 

Catching a few non-native Crayfish and returning them will have negligible effect on the local population but catching them and inadvertently spreading them and the disease they carry can have a devastating effect on native Crayfish in other areas (and has had in the past).

[Guest]

The Anonymous Bard, on 26 Mar 2014 - 12:03 AM, said:The Anonymous Bard, on 26 Mar 2014 - 12:03 AM, said:

Just wondering what is going on with CaRT, I haven't visited this forum for some time (due to a certain ego-centric forum repellent who's a$$ I nailed to a plank on certain occasionS and whom I am sure will crop up shortly) but I have emailed them this evening regarding questions on an angling forum regarding their Waterways Wanderers Scheme only to get an auto-reply stating that their inbox is full?

 

I have just had a look at some of your exchanges with a certain forum member way back just before you 'paused' posting.......

 

I have to be honest and say I think the only ass that got nailed was yours.....

 

(Unless I've got the wrong member of course in which case apologies)

Edited March 26, 2014 by The Dog House

[Pete & Helen]

They are not eating them. They carry a disease that they are immune to but is lethal to native crayfish hence the requirement for a licence.

 

The risk in taking American Signal Crayfish away from where they are caught is that the Crayfish Plague they carry is spread to other parts of the country.

 

Catching a few non-native Crayfish and returning them will have negligible effect on the local population but catching them and inadvertently spreading them and the disease they carry can have a devastating effect on native Crayfish in other areas (and has had in the past).

 

I dont disagree at all with that. But I know If I caught some they would be going into a pot of boiling water

[Richard Fairhurst]

Knowing nothing about fishing, but being nosey, Google provides this link to the CRT web site which explains what the scheme is. However Google also pulls up this thread from the forum from 2010. So it would seem that this scheme is not new at all, and that it pre-dates CRT.

 

Yes, it does. It was certainly in operation (in the North-West, at least) while I was at BW, which was 2003-2005.

 

Edit: this PDF confirms it was introduced in the North-West in the 1990s.

 

5) Given that anglers in general appear totally unaware of this charge to fish canal waters which are not under the control of an individual club (where they would previously have enjoyed free fishing)

 

Are you absolutely sure about that, and if so, can you provide actual chapter and verse (e.g. a byelaw, or written agreement with a national angling body)? I can well believe that angling was not always policed on sections without a club lease, but that's very different from saying that you were allowed to do it free of charge.

 

(As a side note, these long lists of numbered questions always smack of Fawlty Towers to me. "Yes, yes, I picked it up... Yes... No, no, I haven't had a chance yet... I've been at it solidly ever since I got back. Yes, I will... Yes... No, I haven't yet, but I will... Yes, yes, yes, I know it is... Yes, I'll try and get it cleared up... Anything else? I mean, would you like the hotel moved a bit to the left?")

Edited March 26, 2014 by Richard Fairhurst

[carlt]

But I know If I caught some they would be going into a pot of boiling water

Indeed, same here, but on the bank so there is no chance of taking away anything other than dead, sterile Crayfish.

 

I was making a comment about an inlands waterways enforcing authority potentially encouraging anglers to break the law rather than making a moral judgement on the rights and wrongs of the law being broken.

[patty-ann]

If there was any which there are not probably could we tickle trout without a licence??

[Kwacker]

I'm sure he'd love it, with or without a license.

 

Edited April 1, 2014 by Kwacker

[b0atman]

So when we are moored do we boaters also need a wandering licence on top of the fishing licence if we choose to fish ?

When I was on the K&A in 2011 I saw a widebeam selling crayfish nets.

Now if there is a problem then surely we should be encouraged to fish for and eradicate this non native crayfish, which obviously swam the atlantic along with the Zander.

Lessons learnt from Australia regards Rabbits,Camels and Cane Toads surely mean that we would not have introduced them on purpose!

[Pete & Helen]

So when we are moored do we boaters also need a wandering licence on top of the fishing licence if we choose to fish ?

When I was on the K&A in 2011 I saw a widebeam selling crayfish nets.

Now if there is a problem then surely we should be encouraged to fish for and eradicate this non native crayfish, which obviously swam the atlantic along with the Zander.

Lessons learnt from Australia regards Rabbits,Camels and Cane Toads surely mean that we would not have introduced them on purpose!

Interesting article about how Zander came to get into the canal system

 

http://zanderanglersclub.yolasite.com/where-zander-came-from.php

[Jerra]

Lessons learnt from Australia regards Rabbits,Camels and Cane Toads surely mean that we would not have introduced them on purpose!

Lessons will have been learned and official introductions will not take place. However there can be escapes say from farming -crayfish can live in damp conditions out of water for a long time and I understand cover quite large distances.

 

Individuals aren't always sensible about what is turned loose or we wouldn't have terrapins popping up round the country.

 

With regard to returning caught alien species I understood it was illegal to release an alien species once you have caught it.