Travel Pack

[lewisericeric]

I hear "travel pack" mentioned a lot when looking at boats for sale etc . But what exactly is it? Is it the same as a generator?

[Staarek]

It's kind of Generator that produces 240V AC as long as your engine is on.

[DeanS]

Hi Lewis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

edited because I was talking rubbish, and corrected by Nick below ;-)

Edited February 20, 2014 by DeanS

[nicknorman]

I hear "travel pack" mentioned a lot when looking at boats for sale etc . But what exactly is it? Is it the same as a generator?

More normally called a TravelPower. It comprises an additional alternator fitted to the engine, which produces high voltage (around 300v) but of course the frequency varies according to engine rpm. So this variable frequency high voltage AC is, by means of a separate box of electronics, converted into high voltage DC then inverted to produce 50Hz at mains voltage. So the output is 50Hz regardless of engine rpm. However, the maximum output (usually 3.5kw) is not necessarily available throughout the rev range. For example on our boat, only about 2kw is available at idle (850rpm) and to get 3.5kw we need about 1100 rpm.

 

Surely you're not thinking of buying a new boat?

 

...that (I think) also intelligently recharges your batteries if you connect to shorepower.

 

No, it doesn't do that. Edited February 20, 2014 by nicknorman

[Athy]

Travel pack? Easy:

When you go over to see the boat, the brokers hand you a bag containing a cheese sandwich, a soft drink and a Mars bar. Usually these are provided by the seller, though Whilton apparently make the sandwiches themselves.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Athy

[Albion]

More normally called a TravelPower. It comprises an additional alternator fitted to the engine, which produces high voltage (around 300v) but of course the frequency varies according to engine rpm. So this variable frequency high voltage AC is, by means of a separate box of electronics, converted into high voltage DC then inverted to produce 50Hz at mains voltage. So the output is 50Hz regardless of engine rpm. However, the maximum output (usually 3.5kw) is not necessarily available throughout the rev range. For example on our boat, only about 2kw is available at idle (850rpm) and to get 3.5kw we need about 1100 rpm.

The most common is/was Electrolux (Dometic) see: http://fc-marine.co.uk/Electrolux_Travel_Power.html

but there is another version called Dynawatt see: http://www.sma-ag.ch/dynawatt/wEnglish/produkte_dienstleistungen/dynawatt_4000.php?navanchor=2110000

I got involved with that version when I worked for Lister Petter and we engineered the Dynawatt onto some of their marine diesels.

Roger

[Tonka]

Beta marine used to fit a 5 KVA one to the original Beta Tug but was not variable speed. You had to run the engine at 800 RPM. The 240 v alternator was made by Markon

[NB Lola]

V useful posts

??

[by'eck]

Worth mentioning that the higher voltage alternators used in both the TravelPower and Dynawatt, make for greater efficiency when producing the 240 volts 50 Hz output. This equates to a physically smaller alternator than if deriving the same power @ 240 volts from a 12 volt alternator/battery/inverter setup. In such a case, the alternator(s) would need to be huge, in the order of 300 amps total output, to provide the equivalent of a 3.5kW TravelPower.

[trackman]

Our 8 year old Beta JD3 Tug engine has a 3.5kVA Dometic TravelPower. I believe these are still available as options on that engine & some of Beta's others.

Ours works from about 600 engine rpm, tickover being a good bit less than that. I don't think the full 3.5kVA is available below about 650 engine rpm but it works our 1kW immersion heater and a toaster of about 750W together quite happily at 600 revs.

It keeps at full chat at any engine speed up to flat out once past the minimum threshold revs.

The alternator speed is way greater than the engine thanks to a big flywheel and small alternator pulley.

[lewisericeric]

Hi, thanks for your response everyone, gives me an idea of what they are!What i dont understand is that is it a replacement for an inverter then? I can have large appliances going with my engine on anyway through my inverter?

More normally called a TravelPower. It comprises an additional alternator fitted to the engine, which produces high voltage (around 300v) but of course the frequency varies according to engine rpm. So this variable frequency high voltage AC is, by means of a separate box of electronics, converted into high voltage DC then inverted to produce 50Hz at mains voltage. So the output is 50Hz regardless of engine rpm. However, the maximum output (usually 3.5kw) is not necessarily available throughout the rev range. For example on our boat, only about 2kw is available at idle (850rpm) and to get 3.5kw we need about 1100 rpm.

Surely you're not thinking of buying a new boat?

 

No, it doesn't do that.

Hi Nick, yes we are considering options at the moment why do you ask? Just feel in particular we need a larger living room space, everything else is perfect but just feel a bit cramped in living room

Hi Lewis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

edited because I was talking rubbish, and corrected by Nick below ;-)

Hi dean, hope you and M are doing well - hows the widebeam coming along?! Edited February 23, 2014 by lewisericeric

[aread2]

It's not a replacement for an inverter like a Victron MultiPlus, as that device runs off the boat's domestic batteries. A Travelpower set-up does have its own inverter to convert the output from the Travelpower alternator to 240v AC but this cannot use the domestic battery bank to make 240V AC when the engine is not running. There were three different Travelpower units provided as an option by Beta at different times. The most common one is the 3.5kVA, least common was a 7kVA unit and slightly less rare is the 5.5 kVA version. The 7kVA unit was only supplied for a short time because there were issues with transmitting enough power via belts.

 

 

[by'eck]

Hi, thanks for your response everyone, gives me an idea of what they are!What i dont understand is that is it a replacement for an inverter then? I can have large appliances going with my engine on anyway through my inverter?

 

 

Yes, in essence its an engine driven generator that produces directly the same mains voltage power that an inverter driven from your batteries would. It does this in a more efficient manner than your inverter does.

[Timleech]

 

Yes, in essence its an engine driven generator that produces directly the same mains voltage power that an inverter driven from your batteries would. It does this in a more efficient manner than your inverter does.

 

It also delivers all the power to the appliance(s), with no depletion of the battery.

If using an inverter for large loads, even with the engine running, it's likely to be taking some of its power from the battery.

 

Tim

[nicknorman]

Hi, thanks for your response everyone, gives me an idea of what they are!What i dont understand is that is it a replacement for an inverter then? I can have large appliances going with my engine on anyway through my inverter?

Hi Nick, yes we are considering options at the moment why do you ask? Just feel in particular we need a larger living room space, everything else is perfect but just feel a bit cramped in living room

 

We have a 3.5 kw TravelPower and a 2.5kw inverter. So the TravelPower is used for prolonged heavy loads like the tumble drier. The 175A 12v alternator does get very hot when operating at full load eg when taking a lot of power from the inverter with the engine running. Of course it is designed for this, but makes me wonder if it's shortening its life. By contrast the TravelPower alternator, because it is high voltage low current, doesn't get anything like as hot.

 

The TP is not essential but it does provide an alternative source of AC power should the inverter fail. Redundancy is a good thing for boat systems.

 

On your boat, having browsed your blog occasionally I know you have had quite a lot of work done to your boat, so thought you might be happy with it now! But of course, if you need a bigger boat there is only one way to achieve that.

[by'eck]

 

It also delivers all the power to the appliance(s), with no depletion of the battery.

If using an inverter for large loads, even with the engine running, it's likely to be taking some of its power from the battery.

 

Tim

 

Agreed, and that's a big advantage. Although less efficient, the 12 volt alternator/battery/inverter setup, which many boat may be fitted with anyway, offers greater versatility with the batteries temporarily filling in for any engine alternator current shortfall.

[lewisericeric]

Thanks everyone.

 

Quick question - would one of these run a washing machine?

 

1. I have a small zanussi compact washing machine but this doesnt work through my inverter as i only have a quasi sine wave inverter. Grrrrr. Do the travel packs provide pure sine wave if I were to have this bolted onto my existing engine?

 

2. Are they expensive to have fitted

 

3. Travel pack or generator?? Which would be the best option?

[nicknorman]

Thanks everyone.

Quick question - would one of these run a washing machine?

1. I have a small zanussi compact washing machine but this doesnt work through my inverter as i only have a quasi sine wave inverter. Grrrrr. Do the travel packs provide pure sine wave if I were to have this bolted onto my existing engine?

2. Are they expensive to have fitted

3. Travel pack or generator?? Which would be the best option?

1. We have a compact Zanussi (zwc1300w) which runs from the TP no problem. The TP is PSW but the only slightly odd thing is that it's centre tapped, ie there is no live and neutral, both wires are +-120v. This is generally of no consequence, but it does seem to affect (Apple) touch screens. Neither iPad not iPhone touch screens work right when being charged via the TP.

 

2. No, if you are rich. Yes, if you are poor. I think its quite difficult to retrofit with the engine in situ, better to get one fitted to a new engine before installation. Maybe £1500 to £2500, not sure.

 

3. Depends to some extent on whether you plan to cruise a lot, or mostly be moored up. I think you are the latter? If you are cruising anyway, the TP is good. If you are running the engine just for the TP then you are better with a generator because you are not wearing out the main engine. You also now have 2 possible ways to charge the batteries etc so a main engine failure doesn't mean the lights go out. But generators take up space.

[lewisericeric]

Great advice Nick, many thanks for that. We are moored more often than not but still mostly rely on solar/engine power. Plus having the new washing machine (its the old model, not the newest one, but new for us!) means we cant do any washing unless on a shoreline! Really annoying as it means that until we get back to an available shoreline, we have the washing building up.

 

Think a generator is the way to go then at least temporarily.

 

Yes, you are right, we have had so much work done. We have spent 2 years fitting out and still at it, although just minor bits and bobs now. We do love the boat and I personally would prefer just to get it stretched, say 8-10ft or so, but of course, its the funding issue and if its more financially viable to just sell up and start again maybe if i win 10k on a scratch card! So yes, ideally a stretch would be the way forward but not sure for now....will wait and see!

Edited February 23, 2014 by lewisericeric

[Tonka]

Mine was a retrofit and done by Beta Marine so they may still do them

[trackman]

I think they still do them and retro fitting may be fairly simple. My flywheel certainly has 3 sets of grooves in it, two single and one for the multi vee belt of the TP. We have one 12V alternator and the TP, so in our case there's the possibility of adding a 2nd 12V alternator.

I imagine engines with 2 x 12V alternators may have the flywheel ready for a TP belt. The flywheel is probably the trickiest bit of retrofitting, so if that is already right for the job the rest may be fairly simple. Beta probably have a standard kit with the brackets etc.

TPs are not cheap though, as already said, especially if bought as a kit from an engine builder!

[BruceinSanity]

We had a TP on our last boat, but didn't bother with this one; we just use the big domestic alternator and a big inverter. I have arranged extra ventilation to the alternator.

 

We found the TP expensive over time; it was the piece of kit that most often needed emergency service. In six years we got through three sets of brushes, two drive belts and had to have a complete "take it down and send it away to Cox's" service (cr*p in the alternator from dust off the drive belt + oil vapour).

 

They also have a rep for stressing the keyway on the end of the crankshaft when under load; three alternators and the water pump is an awful lot being driven from one pulley.

[Hawkmoth]

Thanks everyone.

 

Quick question - would one of these run a washing machine?

 

1. I have a small zanussi compact washing machine but this doesnt work through my inverter as i only have a quasi sine wave inverter. Grrrrr. Do the travel packs provide pure sine wave if I were to have this bolted onto my existing engine?

 

2. Are they expensive to have fitted

 

3. Travel pack or generator?? Which would be the best option?

It depends on the generator. If you want to run anything with electronics it is best to get a genny with inverter output.

We use a Travel Power, and it's wonderful. One breakdown in 8 years of running.

Bob

[Alastair]

You've reminded me; I have one of these minus the alternator. Of no use to me now - would part with it for some readies. I'll dig it out and photograph it this weekend.

[trackman]

Our TP is nearly 8 years old. Going strong unlike our 12V alternator. That had to be replaced last year.

I reckon Bruceinsanity was unlucky or theirs was badly installed.

We swear by our TP, it allows us to do laundry while travelling without interfering with the charging of our domestic batteries. When we stop the batteries are fully charged if we've had a reasonable trip and no need to run a separate generator for the washing.

Laundry is hung in the engine room to dry as we travel and is usually dry before we stop.