Water in cylinders BMC 1.5 ... and more

[MtB]

Pontifiction - that's making stuff up while standing on a bridge - right?

 

Richard

 

A bridge in France, I thought....

 

MtB

[David Mack]

Pontifiction - that's making stuff up while standing on a bridge - right?

 

Isn't it the Pope making stuff up while standing on a bridge?

[luctor et emergo]

no, its the pope saying that the abuse is dealt with..

[p6rob]

Last year I had made an agreement to buy the engine out of butty Clara, unfortunately I subsequently lost the phone number and eventually got my own engine running nicely. Obviously, I don't know if they still have the engine in there, (they used it for power generation and were planning an alternative source).

 

If anyone knows how to get hold of the owners of Dane and Clara, it might be worth a call. They didn't want very much for it and although he said it needed work, it started and ran pretty well. Might work as a stop gap and give you time to save for a full rebuild.

 

 

Rob

 

PS. If you do make contact, please apologise for my not getting in touch, I lost the note with their number on within a couple of days of meeting them near Fradley (iirc).

[HappyBunny]

They are not lined at all. The cylinder is bored directly into the block

 

Richard

 

MORE: Suggestions - gather up your pennies, see what you have and either get a short or complete engine from Calcutt.

 

Have spoken to very helpful chap at Calcutt and he says the cylinders are dry lined and a crack in a liner is not uncommon and would lead to exactly the problems I have had ... the block could come out and be sent to coventry to be tested but this would start to cost as much as a rebuild as Alan pointed out, they do not do exchange on the 1.5 ... only rebuilds

 

 

Or if you can't, consider this:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-5-bmc-marine-diesel-engine-/331131092449?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_BoatEquipment_Accessories_SM&hash=item4d18f37de1

 

One helluvalot of spare parts including a cylinder head.

 

When the head came off and you saw water in the cylinders, do you remember whether the pistons where in the cylinders with the water?? Near the top or near the bottom?

 

MtB

 

Tis a lot of engine, but always worry that I might be jumping out of the proverbial frying pan and into the fire with an unknown second hand engine that was smoking anyway ..... and the problem then is where to put it whilst stripping bits off .... hmmmmm

 

the pistons in the pots full of water were nearer bottom than top .... expand on your thinking please MtB

[RLWP]

 

the block could come out and be sent to coventry to be tested

 

To Midland Cylinder Rebores

 

Calcutt bore out and liner engines back to the original size as a matter of course now, rather than bore a size up and fit bigger pistons

 

Richard

[MtB]

the pistons in the pots full of water were nearer bottom than top .... expand on your thinking please MtB

 

Ah. Had the pistons been near the top, this substantially reduces the chances of it being a cracked cylinder block as the water would have been in the sump.

 

But this is not good logic anyway unless the engine had definitely not been rotated whilst taking the head off.

 

 

Calcutt bore out and liner engines back to the original size as a matter of course now, rather than bore a size up and fit bigger pistons

 

Hmmm might this be a good solution to the low compression on one cylinder in REGINALD's Gleniffer? Saves trying to find suitable new pistons.

 

 

MtB

[RLWP]

 

Ah. Had the pistons been near the top, this substantially reduces the chances of it being a cracked cylinder block as the water would have been in the sump.

 

But this is not good logic anyway unless the engine had definitely not been rotated whilst taking the head off.

 

 

 

Hmmm might this be a good solution to the low compression on one cylinder in REGINALD's Gleniffer? Saves trying to find suitable new pistons.

 

 

MtB

 

As long as the pistons are OK, which they probably won't be. I suspect we will find the top ring groove has worn out

 

Richard

[MtB]

 

As long as the pistons are OK, which they probably won't be. I suspect we will find the top ring groove has worn out

 

Richard

 

It had new rings made and fitted (according to Tommy the previous owner) about five years ago. Certainly had the heads off and pistons out. He isn't a technical person so may have got it wrong about the rings, but I've met the bloke who did it and he is of the opinion that the new rings just need bedding in. I think that would have happened by now if it was going to...

 

MtB

[Roadsteam]

 

Have spoken to very helpful chap at Calcutt and he says the cylinders are dry lined and a crack in a liner is not uncommon and would lead to exactly the problems I have had

 

 

Well with that comment the chap at Calcutt has contradicted himself. A dry liner is exactly that, it is pressed into a bored block so if the liner had a crack the block is still holding the water so no water in the sump or cylinder. A wet liner if it cracks will let water thro as the outside is wet and its sealed top and bottom to keep the coolant in the cooling jacket.

[HappyBunny]

Well with that comment the chap at Calcutt has contradicted himself. A dry liner is exactly that, it is pressed into a bored block so if the liner had a crack the block is still holding the water so no water in the sump or cylinder. A wet liner if it cracks will let water thro as the outside is wet and its sealed top and bottom to keep the coolant in the cooling jacket.

 

hmmm fair comment .... I am out of my depth here now but I have a mechanic friend coming today with some spare glow plugs, as two are now dead, and various other implements of destruction to try and ascertain what might be going on, but there is now water in the sump, in the rocker box, coming out the air intake .... all very wet everywhere except the exhaust manifold .... which is just plain wrong .....

 

Pontifiction - that's making stuff up while standing on a bridge - right?

 

Richard

 

ah haha

 

 

A bridge in France, I thought....

 

MtB

 

ah hahaha that inspired a jolly french sing song .... "sur le pont d'avignon, on y danse ....."

 

 

Isn't it the Pope making stuff up while standing on a bridge?

 

ah hahahaha

 

no, its the pope saying that the abuse is dealt with..

 

much chuckling and ribald laughter thanks .... tis very distressing being dead in the water .... thank heavens for back boilers and solar panels

 

also, does anyone know anything about Ford Mermaid engines?

 

bunny

[bizzard]

 

hmmm fair comment .... I am out of my depth here now but I have a mechanic friend coming today with some spare glow plugs, as two are now dead, and various other implements of destruction to try and ascertain what might be going on, but there is now water in the sump, in the rocker box, coming out the air intake .... all very wet everywhere except the exhaust manifold .... which is just plain wrong .....

 

 

ah haha

 

 

ah hahaha that inspired a jolly french sing song .... "sur le pont d'avignon, on y danse ....."

 

ah hahahaha

 

 

much chuckling and ribald laughter thanks .... tis very distressing being dead in the water .... thank heavens for back boilers and solar panels

 

also, does anyone know anything about Ford Mermaid engines?

 

bunny

As far as I know they marinize lots of different makes of engines for mainly power boats. The smallest as far as I can tell from their website is one based on the Ford XLD 1.8, 56hp or thereabouts. these are excellent engines though but do have a timing belt, no problem as long as there is access at the front of it for inspection and changing the belt at the required intervals.

[HappyBunny]

As far as I know they marinize lots of different makes of engines for mainly power boats. The smallest as far as I can tell from their website is one based on the Ford XLD 1.8, 56hp or thereabouts. these are excellent engines though but do have a timing belt, no problem as long as there is access at the front of it for inspection and changing the belt at the required intervals.

 

ah thanks for that, there is a 1.8 mermaid on a shelf which might just drop into my engine bay without too much faffing about

[bizzard]

 

ah thanks for that, there is a 1.8 mermaid on a shelf which might just drop into my engine bay without too much faffing about

On a shelf ? Yes its not much bigger in than your BMC in size, but don't forget you'll need at least a foot of clear space at the front of it to get at its timing belt when needed. A bit more powerful than a BMC 1500 too but not overly so, about another 20hp so ideally your existing propeller might need upgrading to get the full benefit of the extra power but not really necessary as you may find that you can't go dead slow on tick over which is a pain. lots of other modifications too to fit one will be needed like engine mounts, plumbing ect and I don't know what gearbox they use, quite likely PRM.

[HappyBunny]

On a shelf ? Yes its not much bigger in than your BMC in size, but don't forget you'll need at least a foot of clear space at the front of it to get at its timing belt when needed. A bit more powerful than a BMC 1500 too but not overly so, about another 20hp so ideally your existing propeller might need upgrading to get the full benefit of the extra power but not really necessary as you may find that you can't go dead slow on tick over which is a pain. lots of other modifications too to fit one will be needed like engine mounts, plumbing ect and I don't know what gearbox they use, quite likely PRM.

useful info thanks ... yes, it has a PRM and propeller with it .... and only about 1500 hours ...hmmmm but would need to cut access through bulkhead for timing belt .... but not impossible .... hmmmm chin scratching

[bizzard]

useful info thanks ... yes, it has a PRM and propeller with it .... and only about 1500 hours ...hmmmm but would need to cut access through bulkhead for timing belt .... but not impossible .... hmmmm chin scratching

A good mechanic should be able to see to the belt with only about 6'' access at the front but he wouldn't enjoy standing on his head to do it

[HappyBunny]

A good mechanic should be able to see to the belt with only about 6'' access at the front but he wouldn't enjoy standing on his head to do it

 

"he" would have to be lying on my bed to do it .... this cunning plan is becoming more interesting by the minute ......

[Albion]

useful info thanks ... yes, it has a PRM and propeller with it .... and only about 1500 hours ...hmmmm but would need to cut access through bulkhead for timing belt .... but not impossible .... hmmmm chin scratching

The fact that it has a propeller with it might be irrelevant as it won't necessarily be matched to your boat dimensions etc. You might be lucky but don't count on it. Just a thought.

Roger

[RLWP]

The fact that it has a propeller with it might be irrelevant as it won't necessarily be matched to your boat dimensions etc. You might be lucky but don't count on it. Just a thought.

Roger

 

Plus it adds craning out/dry docking to your bill

 

Richard

[bizzard]

Indeed and the PRM gearbox might be direct drive 1.1.

[Albion]

The fact that it has a propeller with it might be irrelevant as it won't necessarily be matched to your boat dimensions etc. You might be lucky but don't count on it. Just a thought.

Roger

 

 

 

Plus it adds craning out/dry docking to your bill

 

Richard

 

 

Indeed and the PRM gearbox might be direct drive 1.1.

In all honesty, unless HappyBunny is extremely fortunate with this replacement engine/gearbox/prop spec etc the potential additional costs of converting stuff could make a rebuilt 1.5 engine direct swap look OK depending whether the labour costs are mate's rates or professional rates of course.

Roger

[HappyBunny]

 

Plus it adds craning out/dry docking to your bill

 

Richard

 

yes, but then my prop shaft is quite worn .... we are looking at dimensions and costings at moment ...

Indeed and the PRM gearbox might be direct drive 1.1.

 

it has a 3:1 reduction, apparently ....

 

the other things I have to factor in are loss of earnings and costs of psychotherapy while I am laid up waiting for rebuild slot as everyone busy on hire fleets etc at moment ....

Edited February 19, 2014 by HappyBunny

[RLWP]

yes, but then my prop shaft is quite worn .... we are looking at dimensions and costings at moment ...

 

 

it has a 3:1 reduction, apparently ....

 

the other things I have to factor in are loss of earnings and costs of psychotherapy while I am laid up waiting for rebuild slot as everyone busy on hire fleets etc at moment ....

3:1? Are you sure

 

Richard

[HappyBunny]

3:1? Are you sure

 

Richard

 

I'm pretty sure that is what was said as I wrote it down, it came out of a narrowboat but I have never heard of the mermaid ... other avenues still being explored too but it is very helpful to have all this input

[RLWP]

If it is 3:1, you'll need a different prop. I would find that ratio to be very annoying, with the engine running fast at cruising speeds. You could fit your gearbox to this engine instead, but then you are paying for a prop and gearbox you don't need

 

Richard