Dispute at Pillings

[Alan de Enfield]

you forgot to mention the bit about PL hoping to take advantage of a loophole in that if someone who moors at plm renewed their licence in Dec 2013, and named PLM as their home mooring, that would stop the CRT from blocking off until dec 2014 on a " technicality"

 

I would have thought that any 'action' should have been taken by PLM against the (now defunct) QMP.

 

PLM have a lease (we assume) to run a marina, the 'landlord' (QMP), and at the moment - their successor - is now no longer in a position to offer them that as it has no access agreement with C&RT. It is a pond.

 

Another assumption - Steadman (via QMP2 / Leicester 650 ltd - or whatever it is called) will give PLM another lease.

 

As of 14th April PLM (Paul Lillie as Director) should be taking advice on obtaining recompense from the "QMP2" phoenix for breach of contract.

[MtB]

 

In this case, the non-leasehold mooring fees would be a legitimate revenue stream for PLM and would belong to them, not to QMP. Although the business arrangements between QMP and PLM are less than crystal clear it seems probable that PLM paid QMP some sum, perhaps each year, for the use of the assets owned by QMP. This did not, as we know, prevent QMP becoming indebted to PLM to the tune of some £1.6million and since the former's demise, either no more payments PLM have become due, PLM have continued such payments to the IP, or the IP has permitted PLM to offset the liability against the debt (the latter is somewhat unlikely).

 

This raises a point not really explored so far. The 'demise' of QMP is far from complete, or a fact. They are being administered by the IP and according to Nigel Moore a hundred or so posts ago, liquidations like this tend to rumble on for years before the company is finally dissolved. This gives the IP the ability to pursue debtors long into the the future.

 

If this happens with QMP, I'm wondering what the ramifications might be. For a start, I wouldn't be surprised if CRT used the continuing existence of QMP on the Company Register as a reason to refuse to open NAA negotiations on the same site with No 750 Leicester Ltd*. Just a thought.

 

MtB

 

 

* We need an abbreviation for No 750 Leicester Ltd. I propose we use 750LLtd...

 

 

 

(Edit to change some words to make a sentence make sense!)

Edited March 25, 2014 by Mike the Boilerman

[costalot]

Well if I were managing PLM and wanted to smooth ruffled feather and prevent a chicken run for the entrance I'd be producing all sorts of reasons why the worst wasn't going to happen. Teling people what they want to hear can be very effective!

 

This raises a point not really explored so far. The 'demise' of QMP is far from complete, or a fact. They are being administered by the IP and according to Nigel Moore a hundred or so posts ago, liquidations like this tend to rumble on for years before the company is finally dissolved. This gives the IP the ability to pursue debtors long into the the future.

 

If this happens with QMP, I'm wondering what the ramifications might be. For a start, I wouldn't be surprised if CRT used the continuing existence of QMP on the Company Register as a reason to refuse to open NAA negotiations on the same site with No 750 Leicester Ltd*. Just a thought.

 

MtB

 

 

* We need an abbreviation for No 750 Leicester Ltd. I propose we use 750LLtd...

 

 

 

(Edit to change some words to make a sentence make sense!)

But I thought CRT had cancelled the NAA with QMP?

[MtB]

Well if I were managing PLM and wanted to smooth ruffled feather and prevent a chicken run for the entrance I'd be producing all sorts of reasons why the worst wasn't going to happen. Teling people what they want to hear can be very effective!

But I thought CRT had cancelled the NAA with QMP?

 

Yes they cancelled it, but they may want a fig leaf to justify refusing to negotiate with 750LLtd. That was all.

 

MtB

[Dangerous Dave]

QMP ltd had a NAA agreement to which Steadman(QMP) could transfer it/lend to anyone he fancied..

 

Obviously to PLM as they are still operating the marina as if nothing had changed..

 

C&RT took it away because of the debt..

 

PLM is still operating as a marina now without a NAA .

 

C&RT have been so good to Moorers by holding back till April 13/14th(?) Much to the delight of PL who thinks in his twisted mind that he is the patron saint of marina operaters!

 

It appears that berth holders are so cool in all this.

 

Three weeks or less now to go!

 

Repeating ourselves again ..Good luck to the good people of PLM and up yours to PL and his followers!

 

Who is going to come unstuck C&RTor PL?

 

The drama continues!

[Naughty Cal]

Tick Tock Tick Tock

 

Not long now!!

[johnlillie]

It's a pity CRT can't give us a definite time and date, we could hold a "ribbon tying ceremony" (opposite of ribbon cutting??) I for one would be on the towpath cheering them on, tea and cakes anyone?

[Dangerous Dave]

We did drop by Pillings Lock on Saturday evening on the way back from Burton. We managed to evade the tight security systems and dangerous decapitated green bollards and tried to get in the Bistro. Unfortunately, it was packed out..........., with candlesticks, posh napkins, and empty seats (there was one family eating there) so we went somewhere not too far away which had a bit of atmosphere.

There are many boats still there, and the car park away from the green decapitated bollard mooring spaces was full too.

 

 

Awwwr...My poor green bollard that i left there!

 

Typical of the management neglect of leaseholders

It's a pity CRT can't give us a definite time and date, we could hold a "ribbon tying ceremony" (opposite of ribbon cutting??) I for one would be on the towpath cheering them on, tea and cakes anyone?

 

 

Hajahaha..I think that C&RT are trying to keep it tight to avoid confrontation..PL would love the :Police to be there as is the norm with any upset!

[Hawkmoth]

 

 

Awwwr...My poor green bollard that i left there!

 

Typical of the management neglect of leaseholders

 

 

Hajahaha..I think that C&RT are trying to keep it tight to avoid confrontation..PL would love the :Police to be there as is the norm with any upset!

Why? Do you reckon he still thinks he has a "police connection" through his father?

Bob

[David Mack]

you forgot to mention the bit about PL hoping to take advantage of a loophole in that if someone who moors at plm renewed their licence in Dec 2013, and named PLM as their home mooring, that would stop the CRT from blocking off until dec 2014 on a " technicality"

What difference would that make? With no NAA in place, moorers at Pillings don't have to have a CRT licence, but if any of them chose to buy one (correctly naming Pillings as the home mooring at the time), so that they could legally venture outside the marina onto CRT waters (before the entrance is closed) why would that create a "technicality" which prevents the closure? I'm not aware that CRT guarantee any boater access to their declared home mooring.

[Dangerous Dave]

Surprised no one has mentioned the latest letter to licence holders from Uncle Phil..

 

A number of PLM berth holders want to know the latest ..He has told them nothing has changed..He has written to Steadman & Junior ******(RoyRollings )

repeating C&RT's terms .

No response from them so April 14th is still on!!

 

 

Oh ..He mentioned that C&RT require a guarantee from the new company that they can afford the terms at 9%...and that due to the marina not being a new affair it will need paying the dosh from the off!

[adam1uk]

Surprised no one has mentioned the latest letter to licence holders from Uncle Phil..

 

A number of PLM berth holders want to know the latest ..He has told them nothing has changed..He has written to Steadman & Junior ******(RoyRollings )

repeating C&RT's terms .

No response from them so April 14th is still on!!

 

 

Oh ..He mentioned that C&RT require a guarantee from the new company that they can afford the terms at 9%...and that due to the marina not being a new affair it will need paying the dosh from the off!

 

Various people had mentioned it -- they just hadn't said what was in it! So thanks for the details.

[Dangerous Dave]

Why? Do you reckon he still thinks he has a "police connection" through his father?

Bob

 

 

No it seems as if that link has been closed..(Roy Rollings)

It is just that PL screams as if such as anyone mentions putting him in a sack he contacts the Police.

 

The only Police connection with Ton -up rocker boy John Lillie is a traffic incident during the 1950's(?)

[johnlillie]

it wasn't PL's father that had police connections(that's me!) it was roy rollings, the new director, but I believe roy's daddy has since retired.

1950's? I was still at school! mid 1960's and you are about right Dave!

[Dangerous Dave]

you forgot to mention the bit about PL hoping to take advantage of a loophole in that if someone who moors at plm renewed their licence in Dec 2013, and named PLM as their home mooring, that would stop the CRT from blocking off until dec 2014 on a " technicality"

 

 

Pure typical PL bull again..Trying to rise up support from loyal customers..

 

Stinks of a desperate person to me!

[Hawkmoth]

 

 

The only Police connection with Ton -up rocker boy John Lillie is a traffic incident during the 1950's(?)

I only dreamed of having a bike that fast in the '50s

Yeah I got mixed up with the Rollins boy.

Edited March 25, 2014 by lyraboat

[Dangerous Dave]

I only dreamed of having a bike that fast in the '50s

Yeah I got mixed up with the Rollins boy.

 

 

I did get confused as John has mentioned he did National Service..

 

Colleagues used to call him "Lawrence of Arabia"

[Grace and Favour]

I only dreamed of having a bike that fast in the '50s

Off topic:

 

Oh - this reminds me of a mates Triton, (Bonneville 650 twin and Featherbed frame of course)

Jez was a stunningly good (AKA obsessive) engineer, and this was reflected in his machine.

 

It was beautifully put together, perfectly balanced lightened crank, racing gear ratios and was a trifle quick

 

I still vividly recall riding pillion, at just past midnight, no lights, on the M1, from Watford to Northampton and back again - just to do it.

Apparently we moved at 140 for most of the journey - I had to take Jez's word for that - I was concentrating on staying on the seat!

Edited March 25, 2014 by Grace & Favour

[Paul G2]

Surprised no one has mentioned the latest letter to licence holders from Uncle Phil..

 

_ _ _ _ _ _

 

Oh ..He mentioned that C&RT require a guarantee from the new company that they can afford the terms at 9%...and that due to the marina not being a new affair it will need paying the dosh from the off!

 

One has to wonder where Mr. Steadman stands in all this, and how far he is willing to go to sustain PL's delusions of grandeur - not to mention why has he gone as far as he has with PL? It would appear from what D'Dave has reported that CRT will require a personal guarantee for any new NAA, and one has to wonder if that means Steadman will walk away from this venture (sell it at a loss), try to keep it with PL at the helm or try to keep it with a real marina manager instead of a wannabe one?

 

I don't think anyone has seen the company books, so it's really impossible to say whether or not PLM has any chance of succeeding. However, one thing that is strikingly clear is that the NAA could easily come from reducing PL's salary from £60,000 PA to £20,000 PA. Obviously this would crush PL's ego, and his lifestyle, however, if PL's choice were either that or unemployment, he might choose the lower salary. Is he employable elsewhere? Does he have any skills? Obviously he's not management or executive material, so is he qualified for any type of real-world employment?

 

I suppose Steadman could set PL (or whoever the new GM might be) up with a performance bonus scheme, so the potential for increased salary would be there. However, it seems that any prudent businessperson, under the circumstances, would be very circumspect of PL's managerial ability and would surely make anything above a minimum salary contingent on performance. If Mr. Steadman did not insist upon salary concessions from PL, it would certainly be cause for speculation as to why not.

 

On the other hand... It would appear QMP is going to write off some pretty significant debt to Steadman-owned companies and/or Steadman himself. It seems that much of the debt that is being written off are paper losses between the three incestuous companies, rather than actual cash losses. Steadman could potentially get a huge tax deduction from this whole debacle that could end up saving him big time on the income taxes he must pay.

 

There's an old saying in the banking biz, back when banks were in the banking biz, the gist of which is, "The quickest way to lose $2million is to buy a restaurant." Even if a restaurant is popular and has a steady flow of customers, it still takes meticulous and knowledgeable management to make a decent profit. It would be interesting to see the books for the restaurant there at PLM. It seems the eatery is PL's pride and joy. It would be interesting to know if operates at a profit.

[Dangerous Dave]

The Steadman / PL relationship is a mystery..It has been since year 1 at PLM..

 

The top 1 out of 10 moans at PLM were that the Cafe is PL's baby and that it was drawing a subsidy from the berthing matters!

Hence the troubles of this period of time.

 

I am thinking the same..It is all going to end in tears for PL...Good job an all!

Off topic:

 

Oh - this reminds me of a mates Triton, (Bonneville 650 twin and Featherbed frame of course)

Jez was a stunningly good (AKA obsessive) engineer, and this was reflected in his machine.

 

It was beautifully put together, perfectly balanced lightened crank, racing gear ratios and was a trifle quick

 

I still vividly recall riding pillion, at just past midnight, no lights, on the M1, from Watford to Northampton and back again - just to do it.

Apparently we moved at 140 for most of the journey - I had to take Jez's word for that - I was concentrating on staying on the seat!

 

 

Bet you were not using a lid as well!

 

 

Edit by G&F - - Oh yes- I was well lidded

 

 

I love these stories...I had a friend /customer/ sponsor called Ted Pool MC (look him up on google) who used to tell me post WW2 exploits of Motor sport activities.

I expect my worthwhile Son will be telling stories of his exploits in the future during his childhood activities of MSA karting in the 2000's!

Edited March 25, 2014 by Dangerous Dave

[Dangerous Dave]

 

One has to wonder where Mr. Steadman stands in all this, and how far he is willing to go to sustain PL's delusions of grandeur - not to mention why has he gone as far as he has with PL? It would appear from what D'Dave has reported that CRT will require a personal guarantee for any new NAA, and one has to wonder if that means Steadman will walk away from this venture (sell it at a loss), try to keep it with PL at the helm or try to keep it with a real marina manager instead of a wannabe one?

 

I don't think anyone has seen the company books, so it's really impossible to say whether or not PLM has any chance of succeeding. However, one thing that is strikingly clear is that the NAA could easily come from reducing PL's salary from £60,000 PA to £20,000 PA. Obviously this would crush PL's ego, and his lifestyle, however, if PL's choice were either that or unemployment, he might choose the lower salary. Is he employable elsewhere? Does he have any skills? Obviously he's not management or executive material, so is he qualified for any type of real-world employment?

 

I suppose Steadman could set PL (or whoever the new GM might be) up with a performance bonus scheme, so the potential for increased salary would be there. However, it seems that any prudent businessperson, under the circumstances, would be very circumspect of PL's managerial ability and would surely make anything above a minimum salary contingent on performance. If Mr. Steadman did not insist upon salary concessions from PL, it would certainly be cause for speculation as to why not.

 

On the other hand... It would appear QMP is going to write off some pretty significant debt to Steadman-owned companies and/or Steadman himself. It seems that much of the debt that is being written off are paper losses between the three incestuous companies, rather than actual cash losses. Steadman could potentially get a huge tax deduction from this whole debacle that could end up saving him big time on the income taxes he must pay.

 

There's an old saying in the banking biz, back when banks were in the banking biz, the gist of which is, "The quickest way to lose $2million is to buy a restaurant." Even if a restaurant is popular and has a steady flow of customers, it still takes meticulous and knowledgeable management to make a decent profit. It would be interesting to see the books for the restaurant there at PLM. It seems the eatery is PL's pride and joy. It would be interesting to know if operates at a profit.

 

 

I wonder if PL gets to read all of this...Total destroying of confidence matters...I love it!

[Alan de Enfield]

What difference would that make? With no NAA in place, moorers at Pillings don't have to have a CRT licence, but if any of them chose to buy one (correctly naming Pillings as the home mooring at the time), so that they could legally venture outside the marina onto CRT waters (before the entrance is closed) why would that create a "technicality" which prevents the closure? I'm not aware that CRT guarantee any boater access to their declared home mooring.

 

I wonder if the Junior Lillie is relying on the much 'talked about' action by C&RT against boaters that do not "spend enough time" on their declared home moring.

 

They cannot spend anytime on their mooring if they cannot get to it.

[johnlillie]

 

 

I did get confused as John has mentioned he did National Service..

 

Colleagues used to call him "Lawrence of Arabia"

didn't do national service Dave, I did 3 years in the royal corps of signals in the early'60's (I was on active service in Borneo when president Kennedy was assassinated!) The bike I had (briefly) around then was a new Norton 650SS. (that's another story).

[johnlillie]

Off topic:

 

Oh - this reminds me of a mates Triton, (Bonneville 650 twin and Featherbed frame of course)

Jez was a stunningly good (AKA obsessive) engineer, and this was reflected in his machine.

 

It was beautifully put together, perfectly balanced lightened crank, racing gear ratios and was a trifle quick

 

I still vividly recall riding pillion, at just past midnight, no lights, on the M1, from Watford to Northampton and back again - just to do it.

Apparently we moved at 140 for most of the journey - I had to take Jez's word for that - I was concentrating on staying on the seat!

Jez must have had a very dodgy speedo, most of the Bonnevilles/Nortons/tritons of that era struggled to scrape past 110mph, according to the expert testers in the motorcycle press ( although my 650SS did 120MPH, HONEST!)

[raymondh]

Jez must have had a very dodgy speedo, most of the Bonnevilles/Nortons/tritons of that era struggled to scrape past 110mph, according to the expert testers in the motorcycle press ( although my 650SS did 120MPH, HONEST!)

Fastest racing T120 Bonnie made around 55 bhp - Triumph Steet Triple R 105 BHP only manages 145 mph so rose tinted goggles I think

But my 32cc Cyclemaster would get close to the ton with a tail wind

Ray

Edited March 25, 2014 by raymondh