Toilet idea... (another one of my potentially stupid ideas)

[Doodlebug]

Hi all,

 

I was just thinking about toilets! Part of the problem with pump outs is the cost, and if its a dump through the smell comes up into the room. The problem with cassette toilets is that its quite awkward disassembling the toilet and having to put the top half on the floor whilst you empty the cassette. The static toilets with the cassettes that slide in are good - but expenciveish (deffo expensive for spare cassettes.

 

So I was thinking. Would it be possible to have something like this:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-TMC-Model-Manual-Boat-Toilet-System-/171182708615?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_BoatEquipment_Accessories_SM&hash=item27db48d787

 

connected through a tube to one of these situated elsewhere:

 

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/20-litre-jerry-can-2?da=1&TC=SRC-20l%20jerry%20can

 

Via one of these

 

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/flexible-spout-for-jerry-cans-2?da=1&TC=SRC-jerry%20can%20spout

 

Then you have the benefits of the sewage not being directly under the toilet whilst having cheap cassettes (the jerry cans (1/4 of the price of normal cassettes) and would be simple to remove.

 

Obviously the jerry can would need a tiny air hole.

 

How exactly do the sea toilets work, do they need to use much water to get everything down the hole?

 

I'm not necessarily going to do this but was just an idea floating round my head. The whole setup could in theory cost less than 150 - and you would have a ceramic bowl and you could have 3 spare cassettes for £60.

 

Just throwing the thought out there!

 

Doodle

Edit: Possible flaw in the plan is they could use a massive amount of water per flush, but I have no idea so would be interested to find out!

[mattlad]

Not really sure.........

 

I do know that most lumpy water boaters have a special hatred for sea toilets though.

[thorne lass]

The sea toilet will let you control water input to an extent, but it will still be significant.

 

You need a 1.5" hose so that will not fit in jerrycan, and unless the vent is plumbed overboard you will not gain over cassette in terms of smells.

 

A jerrycan will be horrible to empty: gloop gloop splash!

 

Thetford cassettes are as ideal as you will get and worth the money, especially if you can pick up spare cassettes on ebay.

[ditchcrawler]

And just think what would happen if someone stole one thinking it was diesel and pored it in their diesel tank

[WJM]

Emptying the Jerry-can would be a horrible process, very very messy. Cassettes are cleverly designed so that they empty quickly and with absolutely no splashing. A Jerry-can is a really bad idea!

[Stormbringer]

If cost is the issue I'm sure you could pick up a used Thetford relatively cheaply off eBay

or from a caravan breaker , then add spare cassettes as needed.

[Doodlebug]

Thanks for the replies, will post in more detail later but I don't see how it would be that hard to empty? The good quality jerry cans have a thing that allows air back in stopping it from splashing?

[BlueStringPudding]

I think this is quite interesting. If the jerry can has a pouring spout fitted to it then splashing would be no worse than emptying a 365 porta potti cassette. The waste and loo roll would need to be well mulched down so as not to block it so you may need to store the full jerry cans for a while before emptying. (Having experienced a blockage in a Thetford cassette when emptying it a few months ago it's not nice). Venting the jerry cans would be required but means smell. The only drawback of a jerry can I can see is the handle being at the top next to the spout. A 365 cassette, for example, has a rotatable spout so you can support the cassette using the carrying handle from the opposite side of the cassette to the spout. This makes it easy to tip up when heavy and keeps your hands away from the pooey end!

All in all I'm not sure it's much less hassle than a cassette loo or porta potti. Interesting idea though

 

Best solution for me was a pumpout loo with a giant waste tank. Emptying it once every 3-4 months for the same price someone with a small tank pays every 3-4 weeks was a no brainer. And no back breaking lugging of cassettes to Elsan points of varying levels of cleanliness.

I bought a boat with that installed though. So no initial set up costs.

Edited December 20, 2013 by BlueStringPudding

[NB Lola]

We have a dump through and do not get smells

 

Reason. Odorless

[Caprifool]

Had a poke around, they seem to use 2-2,5 liters per flush.

[Mike Jordan]

How are you proposing to tell how full the container is ? and what will happen to the contents of the filler pipe when you remove the jerry can for emptying. Just think for a second about an inevitable overfilling of the jerry can and vent pipe.

Cassette toilets make the job reasonably acceptable, a lot of experience and thought have gone into their design. A spare cassette can't possibly be expensive enough to make this idea worth considering!

[Robbo]

Thanks for the replies, will post in more detail later but I don't see how it would be that hard to empty? The good quality jerry cans have a thing that allows air back in stopping it from splashing?

 

 

I think the spout will be too small for this application. I presume the sea-toilet keeps the solids pretty solid?

[Doodlebug]

Thanks for the feedback.

 

I don't see how a jerry can is worse to empty than a cassette. Both have a system that allows air back in to prevent it from splashing out, and both have a similar sized outlet.

 

As for the smells, if I were to do it I would still use blue or odourlos or whatever so there shouldn't be an issue with that.

 

I recon if I made the jerry cans into a cassette I would drill a small hole and put something in that can sense when its getting full. Like the good quality cassettes have.

 

The main Issue I can see is the amount of water entering the jerry cans per flush. How do pump outs work? You obviously have the dump throughs but I assume the ones with a holding tank elsewhere use a pipe and a sea toilet?

 

Or am I missing something,

 

Thanks for the comments, its good to keep the brain ticking over!

Thanks caprifool for looking that up, I wonder if they all use that much or whether you get eco models. Ill have a poke around!

Found a couple that are 400ml per flush but are pretty expensive...

[Phil Ambrose]

The full sensor in casettes is in fact a magnet on a float which upon becoming full rises with the level untill the magnetic field operates a proximity switch, can't see that working in a metal Jerry can. Go on bite the bullet and but a Thetford and have done with it.

Phil

[Doodlebug]

The full sensor in casettes is in fact a magnet on a float which upon becoming full rises with the level untill the magnetic field operates a proximity switch, can't see that working in a metal Jerry can. Go on bite the bullet and but a Thetford and have done with it.

Phil

 

The other reason why we can't just buy a thetford it I can't work out how to get it to fit. Our bathroom is 55cm wide by 120cm. but because of the position of the door and the side I would need to access the cassette I don't think it will fit. If it does fit the bowl is going to be right up against the wall.

[Grace and Favour]

 

The other reason why we can't just buy a thetford it I can't work out how to get it to fit. Our bathroom is 55cm wide by 120cm. but because of the position of the door and the side I would need to access the cassette I don't think it will fit. If it does fit the bowl is going to be right up against the wall.

Could you fit a sliding door??

[Doodlebug]

Could you fit a sliding door??

Its not that the door opens inwards but that if the toilet is rotated 90 degrees it will sit right across the middle of the bathroom. Going to go to a chandlery this weekend and do a measure for myself to see but I exploring other options.

[cereal tiller]

Not really sure.........

 

I do know that most lumpy water boaters have a special hatred for sea toilets though.

Absolutely!

 

Sea toilet are smelly,leaky things

 

When craft fitted with sea toilets come on to the upper thames from London,they have to have a seal fitted to the sea toilet's outlet.

this caused difficulty for the boat owners,so a necessity was born!

around thirty years ago a kit could be purchased from marine factors that was:

 

A 25 litre plastic container

 

2 lengths of hose

 

one hose connected the toilet outlet to the container,the other could be used as a vent. from container to wherever

 

it had the name "convert-a-loo",

 

never really caught on,wonder why?

Edited December 20, 2013 by cereal tiller

[apaddler]

Hmm.. Just an idea, but instead of a jerry can why not try a plastic fuel tank (the type for outboard engines on RIBs and small boats) comes with a level gauge and vent? Nozzle can be purchased cheaply to fit and tanks can be purchased from 15 upto 50ltrs?

[Grace and Favour]

You may well find that the fuel level gauge system is not suitable for "slurry"

Edited December 20, 2013 by Grace & Favour

[alan_fincher]

I think this is just such a bad idea at every level, sorry, but I do!

 

It is inevitable that to keep the arrangements vaguely hygenic you will need massively more flush water than is needed in a Porta Potti or Cassette, so your rate of emptying will be massively higher than with the proper article.

 

The emptying experience will likely be horrible. As has bee said, the proper things have a pressure relief in a completely different part of the container to the pouring spout, and this is why it comes out in a controllable manner.

 

I have no idea what similarities the type of sea toilet you have depicted has to the traditional Blakes types, but I do know from when the latter were used in hire boats that use with modern "soft tissue" toilet papers caused frequent blockages, and that hirers were told they must only use Izal type "sandpaper" toilet paper.

 

Mind you I'm staggered to find that a Baby Blakes is apparently now not far shy of £4,000!!! (Linky)

 

However quite how something else can look so similar, but only cost £109 though, I don't fully understand!

[Robbo]

.

I don't see how a jerry can is worse to empty than a cassette. Both have a system that allows air back in to prevent it from splashing out, and both have a similar sized outlet.

 

The outlet on a Jerry Can is a lot smaller, prob about 3rd the size of a cassette.

[Phil Ambrose]

 

The other reason why we can't just buy a thetford it I can't work out how to get it to fit. Our bathroom is 55cm wide by 120cm. but because of the position of the door and the side I would need to access the cassette I don't think it will fit. If it does fit the bowl is going to be right up against the wall.

The bowl on ours swivels, ours is fitted with its back to the vanity unit and almost touching the wall, we just swing the bowl through 90 deg and swop casette by pulling full one out under the vanity unit.

Phil

[Doodlebug]

Cool, well it sounds like it wouldn't work. But then again I have found out that there is a proper system on the market.

 

I think if there was a way to macerate everything and then send it to the jerry can I recon it would work quite well but the macerating toilets would cost more than the cassette way of doing it.

 

Phil - Are you saying that yours almost touches the wall on both the back of the bowl and the side? I have worries that it would be uncomfortable. Wont your hips touch the wall?

 

Thanks

 

Doodlebug

[harve90]

You have got a lot of response to your post, i would just like to add to it by saying well done Doddlebug its obvious you have an inquisitive mind. Its healthy to think outside the box and sometimes that can lead to a breakthrough to (in my experience) one of the most if not thee most negetive asspects(think about it) of spending time on a boat. My gripe is with the depth of the bowl. After shaking hands with Mr Whippy once i have no desire to do it again Keep that mind active Doodlebug. oh yeah... Merry Christmas.