New Alternator Advice Needed Please

[TheCrowsNest]

Hey guys,

When I was re-fitting out the engine room and sorting the engine out I accidentally/stupidly connected the wrong wire to one of the terminals on the alternator. The cable went up in flames and now I guess the alternator is dead..

 

The engine runs fine without it but the LED light is always on indicating that the batteries aren't charging.

 

The alternator fitted to my engine has the following markings:

 

Which has led me to the following websites after a quick google of the barcode number and model number:

http://www.recambioverde.es/detalle-pieza-1572965.html

http://www.hcparts.com/Default.aspx?ID=773&GroupID=RemanufacturedStartersAlternators/Alternators&ProductID=CA305IR#Austin

 

To me this looks like a standard car alternator. Am I right in this assumption?

 

What do you believe is my best course of action in either repairing it or replacing it? If replacing it should I find an identical model or would any alternator do?

 

Its not essential that I replace this immediately as I have the batteries hooked up to a charger but I'd like to get this sorted before I take the boat out in Spring

 

Many thanks for any help or advice you can give..

Edited December 19, 2013 by TheCrowsNest

[springy]

Hi

 

Yes it looks like a fairly standard "bosch" alternator certainly standard "european" termination, however the layout of

the mounting lugs is important and any replacement should be an "exact" match - it is possible to get two alternators

which are identical at a glance but in fact the opposite "hand". If fitting a physically different alternator you should

also check that the pulleys line up - all of which point to the fact that fitting an identical replacement will make life easier.

 

Whether you go for an off-the-shelf remanufactured unit, or find a local specialist is up to you.

 

However ... the second link is to a 55A alternator - what size is your battery bank, it may be an opportunity to go

to a higher output alternator, depending on other factors - what engine is it?

 

springy

Edited December 19, 2013 by springy

[DeanS]

Definately take the opportunity to upgrade to a higher rated alternator? Perhaps a 70A ....but you need to check the belt/pulley sizes...and ask people on this forum if the upgrade will work....you'll get much faster battery recharging....

[Biggles]

Crowsnest. I have a 95 amp alternator spare, single A belt but it needs to be the same fitting of course.

 

I would think any Alternator repair shop can sort this out. My guess is the diodes in the bridge have been fried which should be easy to replace.

 

Don't worry I did the same and fried my inverter if you read my blog. Only the best of us can claim such stupidity ;-)

Edited December 19, 2013 by Biggles

[TheCrowsNest]

Hi

 

Yes it looks like a fairly standard "bosch" alternator certainly standard "european" termination, however the layout of

the mounting lugs is important and any replacement should be an "exact" match - it is possible to get two alternators

which are identical at a glance but in fact the opposite "hand". If fitting a physically different alternator you should

also check that the pulleys line up - all of which point to the fact that fitting an identical replacement will make life easier.

 

Whether you go for an off-the-shelf remanufactured unit, or find a local specialist is up to you.

 

However ... the second link is to a 55A alternator - what size is your battery bank, it may be an opportunity to go

to a higher output alternator, depending on other factors - what engine is it?

 

springy

 

Springy,

I have 3 x 110A Leisure and 1 Starter batteries, It is an old (89?) Isuzu 3KR-1 Engine that is still going strong. I was thinking a 70A or higher alternator might be worth the upgrade, particularly when cruising for a few days / weeks but as you say it may be difficult to find one that is an ideal match.

 

I'll take a few pics of the alternator and mounting tomorrow to see what you think.

Thanks for the advice so far!

 

 

Definately take the opportunity to upgrade to a higher rated alternator? Perhaps a 70A ....but you need to check the belt/pulley sizes...and ask people on this forum if the upgrade will work....you'll get much faster battery recharging....

 

Agreed, as mentioned in previous comment. I'd like to upgrade to 70A+ assuming I can find one that will be a direct swap

 

 

Crowsnest. I have a 95 amp alternator spare, single A belt but it needs to be the same fitting of course.

 

I would think any Alternator repair shop can sort this out. My guess is the diodes in the bridge have been fried which should be easy to replace.

 

Don't worry I did the same and fried my inverter if you read my blog. Only the best of us can claim such stupidity ;-)

 

Hehe, I know, it was very much a *doh!* moment followed by me running out of the engine room with the smoke from the fried wire surrounding me.

 

I briefly spoke to a marine engines guy that I bumped into in the car park and he did say to check the diodes. I might give that a shot if I can find a service place close to me - although I am guessing it would be parts + labour which may amount up to the cost of replacing the whole unit?

 

As for your replacement alternator, I'll post pictures of the mounts tomorrow to see if it would be a match?

[alan_fincher]

My impression is that often if you can find a reliable outfit, this kind of thing can be sorted out by a repair for far less than a full replacement.

 

Perhaps someone has experience of repairers close to you - are you actually where your CWDF profile says you are?

 

This is not a specialist marine repair, of course, it can be done by anyone handling vehicle electrics - its just a case of finding the right place.

[trackman]

As Alan says, where are you? There will likely be some knowledge on the Forum about auto electrical engineers in your area.

A decent one should repair the alternator for you for a few pounds if it is only fried diodes or similar.

A chap in Loughborough I know replaced a dead regulator for me recently for well under £15.

Such a guy should also put you right for a correct upgrade if you really want a higher power alternator. That's not a bad idea. I'd guess you could readily get away with going to 70A.

[bizzard]

Or call in at any motorists spares shop or garage, they will direct you to an auto electrics reconditioners,

[David Schweizer]

If all else fails try these people :- http://www.vehicleelectricsshop.co.uk/ I recently bought a re-built 55amp A127 Alternator from them for £54 delivered .

 

By the way, the alternator illustrated in your decond link is a Lucas A127. They come in a number of ratings, but replacing with a rating higher than the existing alternator is not neccessarily straightforward. Without some modification your belt may slip and/or scream. I had to have the main engine pulley machined out and fit a wider alternator pulley to take a wider belt to prevent this, and I only changed from 35 amp to 55 amp.

Edited December 20, 2013 by David Schweizer

[steelaway]

Or call in at any motorists spares shop or garage, they will direct you to an auto electrics reconditioners,

 

You might also find they can match the frame/mountings to another higher output alternator and simply fit your pulley onto it.

If this your only alternator, you do need a bigger one, but it could be £150+. Repairs are around £50.

 

Alex

[Phil Ambrose]

I fitted an upgrade this summer to replace my 127 a 90amp which was a straight swop, no problem with pulley etc. Got from a place on line called IIRC "Driftgate 2000" migjt be worth a look.

Phil

[bizzard]

The belt-pulley wrap around if the alternator is the only component driven from the crank shaft is substantially more therefore much more grip than if two or maybe more things are driven by the same belt, less grip all round.

[DeanS]

 

By the way, the alternator illustrated in your decond link is a Lucas A127.

 

I had a 55Amp Lucas A127 in my last boat and upgraded it to a 70Amp off Ebay....straight swop, no hassles.

[springy]

 

Springy,

I have 3 x 110A Leisure and 1 Starter batteries, It is an old (89?) Isuzu 3KR-1 Engine that is still going strong. I was thinking a 70A or higher alternator might be worth the upgrade, particularly when cruising for a few days / weeks but as you say it may be difficult to find one that is an ideal match.

 

I'll take a few pics of the alternator and mounting tomorrow to see what you think.

Thanks for the advice so far!

 

 

 

Agreed, as mentioned in previous comment. I'd like to upgrade to 70A+ assuming I can find one that will be a direct swap

 

 

 

Hehe, I know, it was very much a *doh!* moment followed by me running out of the engine room with the smoke from the fried wire surrounding me.

 

I briefly spoke to a marine engines guy that I bumped into in the car park and he did say to check the diodes. I might give that a shot if I can find a service place close to me - although I am guessing it would be parts + labour which may amount up to the cost of replacing the whole unit?

 

As for your replacement alternator, I'll post pictures of the mounts tomorrow to see if it would be a match?

 

 

Hi

 

yes a bigger alternator looks like a sensible move for your battery bank, and I dont see that sourcing a suitable match for the mounting lugs sould be

too much of a problem - there are a relatatively small number of options, as long as you get a match not a mirror !

 

Don't be tempted to go too far up in amperage - the standard 9.5/10mm wide v belt will struggle to cope with the loading, unless that is you have dual

belts, polyvee or increased pulley wrap. My impression is that 80-100 A is about as much as a standard belt setup (3 pulleys - crank/water pump/alternator

with approx 100-110 degrees of wrap on the alternator pulley) can manage - you just end up eating belts or bearings depending on whether you run tight

or loose. Plus of course more of your engines BHP is soaked up by the alternator leaving less available at the prop.

 

Also a higher rated alternator may have a bigger "frame" - the brackets line up, the pulley is the same size, but because the axis of rotation is slightly

further out from the mounting points a significantly longer belt is required - not necessarily a problem - belts are supplied in a range of standard sizes.

(I did a similar upgrade about 18 months ago - needed 75mm longer belt - not a problem, however clearance between alternator and engine side cover

panel reduced from 25mm to 10mm - Phew !)

 

springy

Edited December 20, 2013 by springy

[David Schweizer]

 

I had a 55Amp Lucas A127 in my last boat and upgraded it to a 70Amp off Ebay....straight swop, no hassles.

If you had a 55amp alternator originally fitted, I suspect that the pulleys had already been modified to take a wider belt. The original pulleys on our boat were 9.5mm and were widened to accept a 13.5mm belt. We also have an alternator controller, which enables the alternator to achieve it's maximum output during the first stage of charging, and the old 9.5mm belt could not handle that amount of force.

Edited December 20, 2013 by David Schweizer

[alan_fincher]

If you had a 55amp alternator originally fitted, I suspect that the pulleys had already been modified to take a wider belt. The original pulleys on our boat were 9.5mm and were widened to accept a 13.5mm belt. We also have an alternator controller, which enables the alternator to achieve it's maximum output during the first stage of charging, and the old 9.5mm belt could not handle that amount of force.

We run a 70 amp A127 alternator on a BMC 1800 with just a 9.5mm or 10mm belt, (not sure which is meant to be - I have had belts badged as both despite no apparent difference between them).

 

This seems to be fine, although it is probably about as far as I would wish to push it.

[David Schweizer]

We run a 70 amp A127 alternator on a BMC 1800 with just a 9.5mm or 10mm belt, (not sure which is meant to be - I have had belts badged as both despite no apparent difference between them).

 

This seems to be fine, although it is probably about as far as I would wish to push it.

 

Do you have an Alternator Controller fitted Alan? Ours was alright until the Sterling was fitted, but once the alternator was pushing the full 55amps out, the 9.5mm belt cetainly screamed until it was warm.

 

The original equipment belt for the BMC1.5 is 9.5 x 1050, wheras I believe the 1.8 takes a longer belt, I also believe the configuration on the 1.8 is different from the 1.5, so maybe there is more contact surface on the 1.8 alternator pulley.

[OldGoat]

It might be worth considering (polite way of saying "you should") using a toothed or cogged belts, here:-

 

http://www.bearingboys.co.uk/V_Belts_-_Cogged-3291-c

 

They reduce the problem of a tight wrap - thereby being able to transmit a bit more power.

Reduced my belt usage from two or more per season to none in two years.

 

 

[smileypete]

A search for the part on the Wood Autos site gives various cross references and breakdowns:

 

http://woodauto.com/

http://woodauto.com/Component.aspx?Ref=ALT16023

 

Just googled Hella ca305ir which turned up this handy site:

 

http://www.elecfinder.com/hella/alternator/ca305ir

 

That said a local alt recon place should be able to fix or replace no problems.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[alan_fincher]

 

Do you have an Alternator Controller fitted Alan? Ours was alright until the Sterling was fitted, but once the alternator was pushing the full 55amps out, the 9.5mm belt cetainly screamed until it was warm.

 

The original equipment belt for the BMC1.5 is 9.5 x 1050, wheras I believe the 1.8 takes a longer belt, I also believe the configuration on the 1.8 is different from the 1.5, so maybe there is more contact surface on the 1.8 alternator pulley.

No alternator controller David.

 

We have never seen the need, and I subscribe to Gibbo's view that a modern alternator is generally capable of doing the business without that add on, but I know others swear by them.

 

You are of course correct that the configuration and exact pulley sizing differs from application to application.

 

Actually though, because we are "pulleyed up" at a full 3:1, and hence spinning the alternator faster for a given engine revs that some 1500s with a lower ratio, I would probably expect a greater rather than a lesser chance of slippage.

 

Some have reckoned they can manage a 100 amp alternator on a 10mm belt, but I d wonder how much of that 100 amps they are actually using?

[Phil Ambrose]

Just to agree with Alan, my 90amp alt spins OK on a 10mm belt with no slip or squeel.

Phil

Edited December 21, 2013 by Phil Ambrose

[steelaway]

Barrus have a 110 amp driven with a single belt.

 

Alex

[David Schweizer]

No alternator controller David.

 

We have never seen the need, and I subscribe to Gibbo's view that a modern alternator is generally capable of doing the business without that add on, but I know others swear by them.

 

You are of course correct that the configuration and exact pulley sizing differs from application to application.

 

Actually though, because we are "pulleyed up" at a full 3:1, and hence spinning the alternator faster for a given engine revs that some 1500s with a lower ratio, I would probably expect a greater rather than a lesser chance of slippage.

 

Some have reckoned they can manage a 100 amp alternator on a 10mm belt, but I d wonder how much of that 100 amps they are actually using?

 

Our engine also has a pulley ratio of 3:1 which as you say turns the alternator faster than many set ups, and acheives a good output at lower engine revs.

 

I agree with Gibbo when talking about modern alternators, but the A127, whilst a reliable machine, is hardy a "modern" Alternator, and I would be surprised if it would achieve it's full output potential without the internal regulator being bypassed. Without an alternator controller are you actually reading 70amps on the ammeter when the engine is fired up in the morning?

Edited December 22, 2013 by David Schweizer

[alan_fincher]

 

Without an alternator controller are you actually reading 70amps on the ammeter when the engine is fired up in the morning?

We now have LED lights, and no TV, and rarely have the small inverter switched on, so really only use any significant power to run laptops, and the occasional cutting in of a water pump.

 

So frankly we take so little out of the batteries, that it very quickly gets put back the next day.

 

So I view an alternator controller as a bit of extra complexity we don't need, and one less thing to go wrong.

 

(The ammeter never reads 70 amps, because ours is only 60 amps for full scale!)

 

If we used much power

[David Schweizer]

We now have LED lights, and no TV, and rarely have the small inverter switched on, so really only use any significant power to run laptops, and the occasional cutting in of a water pump.

 

So frankly we take so little out of the batteries, that it very quickly gets put back the next day.

 

So I view an alternator controller as a bit of extra complexity we don't need, and one less thing to go wrong.

 

(The ammeter never reads 70 amps, because ours is only 60 amps for full scale!)

 

If we used much power

 

Yes, given your power consumption, and your known practice of long cruising days, I agree that an alternator controller would probably be an uneccessary option. We sometimes only cruise for four or five hours, and whist we tend to use the TV less these days, the radio is on most of the time, and we have a mixture of halogen and tungsten bulbs, so our power consumption is probably far more than yours.

 

I also tend to visit the boat for several days at a time and stay on our mooring doing work, I like to be able to re-charge the batteries in as short a time as possible at the end of the day, so the controller is an asset.

Edited December 22, 2013 by David Schweizer