Plastic poo tank insulation

[imranino]

Hi all!

 

When I got my boat it had a rusty decommissioned pump out tank. This summer I replaced it with a new plastic one.

 

The tank is under the bed and had a load of polystyrene and other materials above it. Do you know whether it might have been put there for storage as they had leftover polystyrene, or was it to insulate the tank?

 

If it's the latter do I still need it there with a plastic tank? The reason I ask is because it would free up about 5'x 2'x 6" of storage which would be perfect for storing instrument cases.

 

Any thoughts very welcome as I'm currently rebuilding the bed (complete with hydrolic hinges to access storage) and if I can do away with the polystyrene and box the poo tank in, it would be much easier at this stage!

 

Many thanks!

[Ex- Member]

When it was a steel tank, the owner probably surrounded it with insulation as it probably condensated. This can be common with S/S water tanks also.

[imranino]

Thanks Julynian!

 

So is the condensation no longer a concern with a plastic tank?

 

Cheers!

[nb Innisfree]

We have an 18mm ply bed board directly on top of our polyprop tank, no probs.

[imranino]

Whoo such good news!

 

Thanks very much for the info, just earned me 8500 cubic inches of storage!

 

Cheers!

[Ex- Member]

Thanks Julynian!

 

So is the condensation no longer a concern with a plastic tank?

 

Cheers!

 

Difficult to say, I would guess it might still occur as plastic can have a cold surface, I would wait and see, things like ventilation also play a part, the good thing is though you don't need thick slabs of polystyrene to solve the problem. simply wrapped in something suitable even blankets could stop any future condensation.

[GUMPY]

My plastic water tank wmas not insulated and you could see the level of the water from the condensation on the outside.

Black water however doesnt start off cold......

[imranino]

 

Difficult to say, I would guess it might still occur as plastic can have a cold surface, I would wait and see, things like ventilation also play a part, the good thing is though you don't need thick slabs of polystyrene to solve the problem. simply wrapped in something suitable even blankets could stop any future condensation.

 

 

Good to know, I'm building the bed/storage unit with maximum ventilation in mind, so I'll definitively be keeping an eye on the situation! One of the reasons I'm installing hydraulic hinges is so that I can air the mattress every morning as last summer we had trouble with condensation resulting in a damp mattress most mornings.

My plastic water tank wmas not insulated and you could see the level of the water from the condensation on the outside.

Black water however doesnt start off cold......

 

Maybe that's less of a concern for us as we live aboard and empty the tank every few months and keep the boat warm through the winter?

[Ex- Member]

 

 

Good to know, I'm building the bed/storage unit with maximum ventilation in mind, so I'll definitively be keeping an eye on the situation! One of the reasons I'm installing hydraulic hinges is so that I can air the mattress every morning as last summer we had trouble with condensation resulting in a damp mattress most mornings.

 

Maybe that's less of a concern for us as we live aboard and empty the tank every few months and keep the boat warm through the winter?

 

I would say you have the right approach, if the tank's well ventilated then it will heat up the same as the rest of the boat so be an equal temp and not condensate.

 

We also keep the bed area very aerated but have no poo tank to worry about. we even have 4 inch fans in the floor area under the bed to draw cool air from the bilge in the summer which also assists in good ventilation.

 

I do like the idea of your hydraulic hinges, wish I had thought of that approach.

[Grace and Favour]

We have a 1,000 Ltr fresh water tank under our bed (tank fabricated in stainless steel), and never ever have any condensation on it...

 

For two reasons:

 

We keep our bedroom cooler than the rest of the boat

and

We have very effective air circulation around the tank (we have two opposing air vents that provide the air movement - but a couple of 12v PC fans would also be extremely effective)

 

 

 

 

Edited for spelllling

Edited November 10, 2013 by Grace & Favour

[GUMPY]

 

 

Maybe that's less of a concern for us as we live aboard and empty the tank every few months and keep the boat warm through the winter?

So do I, and have done for over 20 years, condensation was noticable when the tank had just been filled and for a couple of days after, getting better as the week went on.

[Bobbybass]

I fitted a plastic loo tank under the bed some years back..

No insulation..and no ill effects.

[FadeToScarlet]

We have a 1,000 Ltr fresh water tank under our bed (tank fabricated in stainless steel), and never ever have any condensation on it...

 

For two reasons:

 

We keep our bedroom cooler than the rest of the boat

and

We have very effective air circulation around the tank (we have two opposing air vents that provide the air movement - but a couple of 12v PC fans would also be extremely effective)

 

 

 

 

Edited for spelllling

Should've gone for a flexible tank, then you could have used it as a water bed!

[imranino]

I would say you have the right approach, if the tank's well ventilated then it will heat up the same as the rest of the boat so be an equal temp and not condensate.

 

We also keep the bed area very aerated but have no poo tank to worry about. we even have 4 inch fans in the floor area under the bed to draw cool air from the bilge in the summer which also assists in good ventilation.

 

I do like the idea of your hydraulic hinges, wish I had thought of that approach.

 

Good idea with the cooling fans. I installed a computer fan on the pump out tank vent which is doing a good job of helping the enzymes do their thing!

We have a 1,000 Ltr fresh water tank under our bed (tank fabricated in stainless steel), and never ever have any condensation on it...

 

For two reasons:

 

We keep our bedroom cooler than the rest of the boat

and

We have very effective air circulation around the tank (we have two opposing air vents that provide the air movement - but a couple of 12v PC fans would also be extremely effective)

 

 

 

 

Edited for spelllling

Our bedroom is still the coolest part of the boat yet condensation is the worst. I reckon this'll be an ongoing battle!

 

I wish I had 2 opposing vents on the pump out tank! There's only 1 (opposite end to the dump through and pump out) to which I had to add a computer fan (from wisdom acquired on this here forum!)

So do I, and have done for over 20 years, condensation was noticable when the tank had just been filled and for a couple of days after, getting better as the week went on.

Julian, it's the pump out tank that's under our bed, so I don't think it suffers the same temperature changes as a water tank.

I fitted a plastic loo tank under the bed some years back..

No insulation..and no ill effects.

Cheers Bobby, hopefully we'll share your luck!

[Grace and Favour]

Should've gone for a flexible tank, then you could have used it as a water bed!

And even used it to breed Rainbow Trout as well . . .. . . ?

 

 

Oooh-err - - that could stand further development by Bizzard I feel)

[imranino]

Thanks for all the replies! Here's the completed bed / storage space. The poo tank is on the far right hand side, where we now store musical instrument cases and bike panniers. All the wood was upcycled and the dividers (which double up as support for the bed slats) are made from what the mattress used to lay on. Everything is stuffed in there at the moment but we'll be organising it so it's not crammed and there's adequate air flow.

 

Cheers!

[monkeyhanger]

Thanks for all the replies! Here's the completed bed / storage space. The poo tank is on the far right hand side, where we now store musical instrument cases and bike panniers. All the wood was upcycled and the dividers (which double up as support for the bed slats) are made from what the mattress used to lay on. Everything is stuffed in there at the moment but we'll be organising it so it's not crammed and there's adequate air flow.

 

Cheers!

I will need to replace my steel holding tank soon. May I ask where you had yours made, please? Does anyone else have recommendations for suppliers? Thanks

[Ex- Member]

Nice job even being a retro fit. what type hinges btw

 

If I had the luxury of doing a bed from scratch, having seen this it would be just like that, the front where the drawers currently are would simply be some nice vented panelling, the storage space beneath I would then section in to different size storage areas possibly for specific chosen items in mind. With that top lifted like that it's giving superb access and you can easily fit large items in there as well.

 

A poo tank could also be encased in a section and filled neatly with insulation and even covered with a screw down lid to completely hide & isolate it. Or similar with a calorifier or water tank.

 

Perfect solution for a bed on a boat IMO

[Woodstock]

Monkey Hangar-We had a new one made early this year- great service and the'll make to your shape / size. Here's the link http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=58125&hl=

[BlueStringPudding]

I think that's very clever, Imranino. My bed sits above a loo tank that is as big as the bed (a steel tank integral to the hull, so it's cold) and so there's no scope for additional storage. But when I first bought the boat, condensation making the mattress damp was a big problem. I ended up binning two mattresses. The problem was solved by using the giant pallets that get chucked out by bed shops. They sit on the bedbase and the mattress is on top of that. Never had a problem with damp since as there's plenty of airflow under the mattress now. And it was a free solution to the problem too - but not the clever upcycling thing you've done. I think that's great.

Edited November 13, 2013 by BlueStringPudding

[imranino]

I will need to replace my steel holding tank soon. May I ask where you had yours made, please? Does anyone else have recommendations for suppliers? Thanks

I got ours built to measure by jp plastics. Can't recommend them enough! Absolutely great to deal with, give them a call. They supply Midland chandlers who sell them as sets for £1000+, but we got ours for around £200 (we were doing our paintwork, blacking etc at the time so I don't remember the exact figure.

 

Make sure you get 2 ventilation outputs in addition to the pump out and dump-through (or whatever the equivalent is on a macerated system)

I think that's very clever, Imranino. My bed sits above a loo tank that is as big as the bed (a steel tank integral to the hull, so it's cold) and so there's no scope for additional storage. But when I first bought the boat, condensation making the mattress damp was a big problem. I ended up binning two mattresses. The problem was solved by using the giant pallets that get chucked out by bed shops. They sit on the bedbase and the mattress is on top of that. Never had a problem with damp since as there's plenty of airflow under the mattress now. And it was a free solution to the problem too - but not the clever upcycling thing you've done. I think that's great.

thanks! Yes we put pallets under the bed last winter when we got tired of waking up damp with all the bedroom windows open. Worked as a temporary solution but I'm very happy with what we have now!

[imranino]

Nice job even being a retro fit. what type hinges btw

 

If I had the luxury of doing a bed from scratch, having seen this it would be just like that, the front where the drawers currently are would simply be some nice vented panelling, the storage space beneath I would then section in to different size storage areas possibly for specific chosen items in mind. With that top lifted like that it's giving superb access and you can easily fit large items in there as well.

 

A poo tank could also be encased in a section and filled neatly with insulation and even covered with a screw down lid to completely hide & isolate it. Or similar with a calorifier or water tank.

 

Perfect solution for a bed on a boat IMO

I think you and I are on the same page! The only reason I'm yet to replace the front panel is because I didn't have a piece long enough (the long piece inside is made up of 2 which is fine as it's out of sight) I'm keeping my eyes peeled!

 

Above poo tank are music instrument cases and bike panniers, and next to it under the gunwales (furthest and least easy to access) are vacuum packed summer clothes in the winter and visa versa. The other half will by divided in the most anally retentive way possible: scarves, hats, hoodies, jeans etc all labelled and colour coordinated of course!

 

As for the hinges, they're a pair of locking hinges from sgs engineering solutions. I had to disable the locking mechanism as in order to take it out of the locked position you have to lift it a few more inches. This isn't possible as there's a cupboard on the wall above the bed (not visible on the photo) in the way. This was fine as the hidraulic things are designed to support a bed lifting lengthways (rather than sideways), so it's safe as long as no one jumps on the bed with me under this.

 

Let me know if you'd like the finer details, I would have liked to know about the hinges as the locking ones are dearer.

[Ex- Member]

I think you and I are on the same page! The only reason I'm yet to replace the front panel is because I didn't have a piece long enough (the long piece inside is made up of 2 which is fine as it's out of sight) I'm keeping my eyes peeled!

 

Above poo tank are music instrument cases and bike panniers, and next to it under the gunwales (furthest and least easy to access) are vacuum packed summer clothes in the winter and visa versa. The other half will by divided in the most anally retentive way possible: scarves, hats, hoodies, jeans etc all labelled and colour coordinated of course!

 

As for the hinges, they're a pair of locking hinges from sgs engineering solutions. I had to disable the locking mechanism as in order to take it out of the locked position you have to lift it a few more inches. This isn't possible as there's a cupboard on the wall above the bed (not visible on the photo) in the way. This was fine as the hidraulic things are designed to support a bed lifting lengthways (rather than sideways), so it's safe as long as no one jumps on the bed with me under this.

 

Let me know if you'd like the finer details, I would have liked to know about the hinges as the locking ones are dearer.

 

Thanks

 

I'll not be changing anything now though, our trolley and baskets work really well, and there's no damp issues, but as I said starting again I would definitely use your solution.

 

 

The trolley is at the back of the baskets and 7 f/t long and pulls out into the utility room at the stern.

 

 

Great for longer term storage stuff, winter/summer stuff

[Taslim]

I got ours built to measure by jp plastics. Can't recommend them enough! Absolutely great to deal with, give them a call. They supply Midland chandlers who sell them as sets for £1000+, but we got ours for around £200 (we were doing our paintwork, blacking etc at the time so I don't remember the exact figure.

 

Make sure you get 2 ventilation outputs in addition to the pump out and dump-through (or whatever the equivalent is on a macerated system)

 

thanks! Yes we put pallets under the bed last winter when we got tired of waking up damp with all the bedroom windows open. Worked as a temporary solution but I'm very happy with what we have now!

Nice work. (he says, making notes for future refference.) Are the struts stock items?

 

I put slatted pallets, topped with a persian rug, under the mattress as a temporay measure. Five years ago... Well if it ain't broke why fix it?

 

Edit: Slow typing. Thanks for strut info.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Taslim

[Kae]

These are where I buy them from if anyone's interested: http://www.sgs-engineering.com/gas-struts/bed-hinge-mechanism

 

They do both locking and non-locking.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Kae