HS2 - What YOU Can Do

[cheshire~rose]

The following information is from The Chesterfield Canal Trust's website and can be viewed by clicking here:

http://www.chesterfield-canal-trust.org.uk/index.php/latest-news/general-news/513-hs2-what-you-can-do

 

 

The Chesterfield Canal Trust have been inundated with members and supporters asking “What can we do about the threat from HS2?” The answer is "You can help by responding to the official HS2 Consultation". This will close on 31st January 2014.

 

You can see the official HS2 Consultation website by clikcing here:

 

http://www.hs2.org.uk/route-consultation

 

The proposed HS2 route lies directly on top of the restoration route of the canal for 800 metres at Renishaw and for 1200 metres, in a cutting, at Killamarsh. In addition, the links to the proposed HS2 Infrastructure Maintenance Depot at Staveley would cut through the canal’s route at three points, including Staveley Puddle Bank. For maps of these areas, click here:

 

http://www.chesterfield-canal-trust.org.uk/index.php/latest-news/general-news/414-maps-of-hs2-and-the-chesterfield-canal

 

The Chesterfield Canal Partnership and Derbyshire County Council will be submitting detailed engineering information. The Canal & River Trust are also in dialogue with HS2 on our behalf. However it is vital that the Government understands the depth of feeling amongst the public that the restoration of the canal must not be blocked by HS2.

We ask you therefore to respond to the consultation by demanding that a route for the canal is built into the plans.

 

You can respond online;here: http://www.hs2.org.uk/phase-two/route-consultation/document-library?phase2_consultation=590

and then click on the second line for the online response form. Where it asks whether you are responding on your own behalf, or on behalf of an organisation or group, please click "Providing my own response". The Trustees will be submitting a formal response on behalf of the Chesterfield Canal Trust.

 

There are nine questions altogether. You do not have to answer any, if you don't want to. It is fine to leave them blank.

 

The important bit is Question 4 - The route and supporting infrastructure. All you need to write here is that you disagree with the proposed route of HS2 where it lies on the restoration route of the Chesterfield Canal at Renishaw and Killamarsh. You could also say that you disagree with the proposed link to the Staveley Infrastructure Maintenance Depot where it lies on the restoration route of the Chesterfield Canal. Anything else is up to you.

 

If you prefer, you can send your response by email to HS2PhaseTwoRoute@Ipsos.com or send a letter to Freepost RTEL-YAZX-HAZT, Phase Two Route Consultation, PO Box 1152, HARROW, HA1 9LH; no stamp required.

 

There will be a series of information events. visit http://www.hs2.org.uk/phase-two/route-consultation/document-library?phase2_consultation=604 for the full list. These events are an opportunity to review the consultation information, understand more about the implications for your local area and speak directly with HS2 Ltd staff about the proposed scheme. Themeetings local to The Chesterfield Canal are on Thursday November 14th at Killamarsh Leisure Centre, on Thursday 28th November at Bolsover Assembly Hall Community Centre and on Friday 29th November at the Speedwell Rooms in Staveley. All will run from Noon to 8 p.m.

 

The Chesterfield Canal Trust got over 13,600 signatures on our petition two years ago. In order to register our support for the continued restoration of Chesterfield Canal, we need another massive individual response this time. Please help by forwarding this page to anyone who might be interested.

Thank you.

 

- * - * - * -

 

I have just responded - I can assure anyone that unless you feel you wish to make detailed responses to all the sections it does only take a couple of moments to respond with the details suggested above.

 

Please share this with anyone and everyone and ask they take a moment to respond if they care about the restoration of The Chesterfield Canal.

 

If people are able to comment to this thread to keep it bumped up to the top then you too will be helping to bring this to the attention of a lot more people

[Machpoint005]

I know the excuse for a government is spending squillions on consultancy for HS2, but the truth as I see it is that it will never get in fact built. They are already resiling from the 'economic benefits' argument because it has become obvious that London benefits at the provinces' expense, and not the other way around.

 

Nevertheless, there is no excuse for building it over a canal earmarked for restoration. The M6 Toll people had to build a Lichfield Canal aqueduct even though there is little sign that the navigation will reappear in the near future.

[bigste]

Just done 2 objections to proposed route. People have spent, and will spend, years on restoring this canal only for modern day Brunel's to try and scupper them. It's not on so say your bit and be heard.

Edited October 23, 2013 by bigste

[Athy]

I thought that this evil new supertrain was supposed to go from London to Birmingham. What's it doing going via Chesterfield?

[Guest]

I thought that this evil new supertrain was supposed to go from London to Birmingham. What's it doing going via Chesterfield?

 

Second phase takes it on to Leeds, via Chesterfield.

 

 

It also will desimate a lovely spot on the Aire and Calder at Woodlesford in the process.

Edited October 23, 2013 by The Dog House

[cheshire~rose]

Just done 2 objections to proposed route. People have spent, and will spend, years on restoring this canal only for modern day Brunel's to try and scupper them. It's not on so say your bit and be heard.

 

Here, Here! well said that man!

 

It also will desimate a lovely spot on the Aire and Calder at Woodlesford in the process.

 

I understand the various canal societies are all doing their bit to object to anything that affects them I think CRT are actually placing a corporate objection covering all spots it interacts with their waters. Chesterfield Canal Trust have been extremely active in their lobbying since the route was first announced. I sincerely hope all the other societies that are affected are up to speed on this.

 

Of course anyone placing an objection is free to mention all the other places they are aware of it causing a problem when they have their say.

Edited October 23, 2013 by cheshire~rose

[Guest]

 

Here, Here! well said that man!

 

I understand the various canal societies are all doing their bit to object to anything that affects them I think CRT are actually placing a corporate objection covering all spots it interacts with their waters. Chesterfield Canal Trust have been extremely active in their lobbying since the route was first announced. I sincerely hope all the other societies that are affected are up to speed on this.

 

Of course anyone placing an objection is free to mention all the other places they are aware of it causing a problem when they have their say.

 

That seems to have highlighted something interesting in that there doesn't appear to be a canal society covering our bit of the A&C.

 

Googling seems to reveal The Calder Navigation Society but it seems that covers the Calder and Hebble not the A&C.

[mrsmelly]

The stupid train is an abomination. Wasting billions on a train to let just a few from the big slum make even more money is ludicrous. Whatever can be done to ensure its demise should be done pdq.

 

Tim

[RLWP]

I think CRT are actually placing a corporate objection covering all spots it interacts with their waters.

 

They are, it's covered in the NUG minutes

 

Richard

[Derek R.]

I do hope people do object, individually and as much as possible. There are many rail buffs out there who are longing to see new supertrains roaring through the environment, though very few will actually travel on them. Most will take their photos and cop their numbers or display their You Tube videos made from railside locations.

 

But be warned about consultations. They are a device to show that government has been thorough in their dealings with the general public in following a set requirement. There is nothing to say they will take heed of such consultations and as Ken Livingstone infamously stated: "Consultations are a waste of my time. They only delay what I intend to do anyway." The London Congestion Charge was allegedly 'consulted upon'. It wasn't - not outside of Livingstone's inner circle. Everyone who used the streets on a regular basis from nurses and fire-fighters to delivery people and service engineers - all spoke out against it - I was one. No one listened - no anti-CC publicity was allowed, as the deal was already done.

 

More recently, Councillors in Fife held a public meeting and gained the support of whole communities against a proposed wind farm development by St Andrews University near St Andrews Golf Club. The whole community were against the scheme, but their combined voices were overthrown by ONE planning reporter. The chairman of the Kenly Landscape Protection Group which has spent four years campaigning against the proposal, said campaigners were “baffled” by the reporter’s decision. He said : “Every single councillor voted against this wind farm and local communities were wholeheartedly against it.”

 

Object, for if you do not you will only wish you had, but be aware that wherever big money is being used - and much of it tax-payers - the players will make their moves regardless, and be filling their pockets too.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Derek R.

[Guest]

I consider myself a bit of a train 'buff' but I'm afraid I see no need for this complete potential white elephant.

 

I totally agree on your opinion of 'consultations' - pure box ticking.

Edited October 23, 2013 by The Dog House

[cheshire~rose]

Thank you to everyone who has registered their objections so far. I hear what Derek R is saying but the day we give up the fight is the day we give up life.

[Athy]

It's a long time since I heard "cop" used in that sense - probably since my train-spotting days ended in the '60s!

[cheshire~rose]

Shameless *BUMP*

 

thank you

[Derek R.]

Yeah - copping numbers, and waiting for the signal change that foretold of a 'full ecki'! The excitement of wanting to be first to correctly identify the loco, the ground shaking roar through the station con-rods flashing, coal smoke swirling, the demanding rythym of carriage wheels over rail joints - and gone, and the almost total silence of the aftermath punctuated by a signal box bell, and another set of points changing readying for the next event.

 

Then came diesels and Beeching, and a way of life disappeared.

 

Those who push for HS2 are of a similar ilk to those who want modern trams threading their way through town and suburb. They look attractive, just like many fast cars and some women. But they'll cost you and break more than the bank. Not for no reason did London plan its tram removal as far back as 1927. To quote myself from a letter written some years ago: -

 

In the July 1952 issue of London Transport Magazine, a message from the Chairman of the London Transport Executive Lord Latham, sums up what to him were the main features of the conversion to Buses with the conclusion that: 'The final replacement of the trams by a more modern, more flexible, and more manoeuvrable vehicle will be a landmark in the history of the capital which we serve, and a major work of civil importance'

 

Perhaps I digress, but there will always be those who seek greater speed and command greater power over all, and to the cost of others - if only to show that they can, and get a mention in despatches.

 

Fight them. Any way you can.

[Heartland]

The HS2 project with take years to come to fruition, if it does that is. There is certainly organised opposition and sadly whilst this scheme is under promotion planning permission for new build along the route are withheld by the respective bodies. It clearly affects the Chesterfield restoration and this to me seems wrong as the those involved in restoration deserve to remain unhindered in their work and any new railway, road or tram route must be required to plan their crossings accordingly in order to prevent any obstruction to the navigation of the Chesterfield Canal.

 

The Lichfield & Hatherton Trust also have similar fears. Even though adequate provision appears to have been made, it now seems that if local protesters views are taken into account a revised route may block the navigation.

 

A lot has been said against the HS2 scheme and Express & Star has been particularly vocal in this respect. Opposition groups light on the most insignificant bit of news and give it major headlines. So it is now difficult when reading newspaper accounts to separate truth from fantasy.

 

The massive 6 /8 lane motorways (we use hard shoulders in the midlands) are a massive polluter. An example is the you walk along the Wyrley & Essington near Sneyd, the constant drone of traffic is readily noticeable and the sick trees and vegetation that line the motorway corridor reflect that pollution. So it is no surprise to see the Government wishing to improve transport in other ways. There are High Speed railway routes that cross Europe already and hopefully this HS2 if built and if sensibly built will become part of that network. So there are some very good reasons for the making of HS2. Those who oppose it are keen only to pick out any bad point.

 

These next few months will decide the fate of HS2. For the debate for the two acts are before Parliament now. If they fail then no doubt the scheme will be dropped. But a wise word to Cheshire Rose, I have heard that there is another HS2 proposal waiting in the wings that will follow the East Coast and may do more damage to the Chesterfield!

 

Ray Shill

[Guest]

In vast countries like France I fully understand the relevance of very fast trains.

 

In our small crowded island there is no need.

 

If the governments and companies spent more time looking at alternatives to things like face to face meetings, conferences and the like it could reduce the need for travel considerably.

Edited October 24, 2013 by The Dog House

[Athy]

In vast countries like France I fully understand the relevance of very fast trains.

 

In our small crowded island there is no need.

 

If the governments and companies spent more time looking at alternatives to things like face to face meetings, conferences and the like it could reduce the need for travel considerably.

This is something which has occasionally occurred to me: as more and more people are working principally in front of a screen (often at home, as both Mrs. Athy and I do much of the time) then why on earth should there be increasing demand for business travel?

 

What's more (after studying the map kindly displayed by Mr. House), why on earth will there be a station at Southam? Is a rush of international trade to the Colecraft factory anticipated?

[Guest]

This is something which has occasionally occurred to me: as more and more people are working principally in front of a screen (often at home, as both Mrs. Athy and I do much of the time) then why on earth should there be increasing demand for business travel?

 

What's more (after studying the map kindly displayed by Mr. House), why on earth will there be a station at Southam? Is a rush of international trade to the Colecraft factory anticipated?

 

When I worked in the NHS there was a real 'meetings' culture. I don't think it has changed much, I would often find myself having to travel to various parts of the North (and sometimes the Midlands and the South) to attend meetings, when so much of it could be done by teleconferencing.

 

It would also would save the taxpayer money as all those miles I travelled where all claimable as expenses. Multiply it by the number of other NHS managers all doing the same and the savings (after the initial investment in the kit required) would be significant.

 

Often the kit is nothing more than a 'dial in telephone conference' which we used one year when it was all kicking off about winter hospital bed capacity. My boss at the time (rightly in my view) could not see the point in one person from all the local NHS providers physically travelling to a daily briefing meeting at one location when it all could be done by telecommunications. So this is what we were asked to set up and it worked perfectly.

 

No where near enough is made of such simple technology.

 

There actually isn't a station planned for Southam - it's just included for reference I believe. It is going to be virtually a direct route from a new 'hub' called Old Oak Common just outside London to Birmingham.

 

I don't believe any intermediate stations are planned.

 

Edited October 24, 2013 by The Dog House

[Athy]

Old Oak Common is well known to anoraks students of railways - it was the site of the Great Western's main engine sheds for trains from Paddington and, as such, was a magnet for boys brandishing Ian Allen locospotters' books and sharp pencils!

 

As the Eurostar leaves from St. Pancras, and one assumes that the HS2 would connect with those European services, I wonder why it's suppose dto start from OOC instead.

[Guest]

Old Oak Common is well known to anoraks students of railways - it was the site of the Great Western's main engine sheds for trains from Paddington and, as such, was a magnet for boys brandishing Ian Allen locospotters' books and sharp pencils!

 

As the Eurostar leaves from St. Pancras, and one assumes that the HS2 would connect with those European services, I wonder why it's suppose dto start from OOC instead.

 

The initial start will be Euston - OOC serves as a 'hub' interconnection between other lines, including the WCML and the new Crossrail link. A map I found earlier shows a reference to a proposed direct link to HS1 from OOC.

 

Edited October 24, 2013 by The Dog House

[Derek R.]

Do not consider business travel, think refugee travel to internment camps in the Eastern block. High speed trains do not stop frequently, and do not therefore serve those who currently drive to their place of work. If we are to reduce road usage, then communities need once again to create work and services within the community. The amalgamation of various companies that has seen the closure of small firms has been led by the desire to be 'economical' - the economies of size, it is the multi-nationals who have undercut local businesses for commodities and general goods. But we now have some ridiculous situations where say plumbers from Birmingham are commuting by van to London, and plumbers in London commuting by van to Birmingham. Straw is carried from great distances from one side of the country to the other, passing other straw loads in the opposite direction. The requirement for centralised distribution of such things is insane, and one of the reasons why the dreadful foot and mouth disease travelled so far so quickly not so many years ago.

 

My first sentence may consign me to the nutter bin as might this, I care not, but in hindsight I have seen how this past sixty years has been constructed, and how it is leading inexorably to a new communism under a federal state of Europe. The truth will hit us all hard at some time in the future, and most will be asking "How on Earth was this allowed to happen?" and the answer is because it was planned that way, and to make such ideas sound so hare brained no one would want to believe them.

 

But no, it really is for better business communications which we have so little of compared to the rest of Europe.

 

Tell a lie often enough and it is not only accepted as the truth, it is fought for as the truth.

[Athy]

Well, only one stop on the tube (or one circuitous journey for an enterprising cab driver) but really, in a 21st century integrated international transport system, that's one stop too many.

Old Oak Common is actually in London, just a mile or so outside Paddington Station and, from memory, close to the Grand Union canal.

 

Derek, have you returned from a good luchtime at the pub, or did you misunderstand the intended ingredients of those Hash Browns? Normal people will be hard pressed to afford the fares on these trains, so how on earth do you expect people travelling to internment camps (at first I thought you'd written "internet camps") to pay them?

Edited October 24, 2013 by Athy

[Guest]

Well, only one stop on the tube (or one circuitous journey for an enterprising cab driver) but really, in a 21st century integrated international transport system, that's one stop too many.

Old Oak Common is actually in London, just a mile or so outside Paddington Station and, from memory, close to the Grand Union canal.

 

See my ed. I'd forgotten I'd seen a map with a link earlier today.

 

Not sure how and where exactly HS2 and HS1 will connect and what St. Pancras's role will be after the two lines are connected though.

Edited October 24, 2013 by The Dog House

[Athy]

 

 

Not sure how and where exactly HS2 and HS1 will connect and what St. Pancras's role will be after the tow lines are connected though.

They're going to be horse drawn from St. Pancras to OOC???