HS2 - What YOU Can Do

[Guest]

They're going to be horse drawn from St. Pancras to OOC???

 

Could work and will probably be more reliable.

 

Found it though. Presumably some trains will terminate at St. Pancras and some will skip it and press on oop North.

 

[Athy]

Gotcha.

I reckon they should extend all the lines to meet at Marylebone - might as well completely ruin one of the last unspoiled (last time I was there) stations in central London whilst they're knocking everything else about.

 

Bring back Holborn Viaduct and Aldwych tube!

[Guest]

Link deleted as the info. does not look that accurate.

Edited October 24, 2013 by The Dog House

[Derek R.]

No booze Athy, no pub lunch. Do prisoners pay their transportation fares? As a serious means of public transportation over the motor car or even coach in this Island, it's laughable. And I feel sure it is more than just a prestigious exercise in showing equality to the French.

 

Paddington to Old Oak Common 3.9 miles by the Harrow Road (shortest route without wings).

 

Marylebone - well it was good a while back, but since been spoilt - around 2000 IIRC. Lost its proper station atmosphere. Still has the nice glass and wrought iron canopy out front though. Oddly enough, back in the nineties I had cause to use one of the over footbridges across the platforms at Kings X, and I was amazed at still being able to smell coal smoke.

Edited October 24, 2013 by Derek R.

[cheshire~rose]

Just had an opportunity to catch up, very interesting discussion you lot!

 

Derek - I know there is a whole load of truth tucked in there behind what you write but I love the way you deliver it in such a way that one wonders how much of it is humour and how much of it is a warning!

[Derek R.]

Thank you Rose, I'll have to leave you to decide. Any government will keep truth from the population as it is the population they fear most. How many election manifestos had their pre-election promises fulfilled? How much does voting change the way in which we are governed?

 

Most people would be so alarmed at the 'truth' - and in this instance I use the word truth to refer to that which is not a lie, or any kind of story to reduce, cover or generally obfiscate that which is denied - that it would seem so improbable as to be laughable. Those who subscribe to such ideas are generally laughed at and derided until as Johnathan Swift noted: -

Falsehood flies and the truth comes limping after; so that when men come to be undeceived it is too late: the jest is over and the tale has had its effect.

Jonathan Swift -- The Examiner, Number 15 (November 9, 1710)

 

Such truths are hidden. Most ordinary folk will wish it to remain so as the knowledge of it if absorbed and recognised for what it was would send them mad.

 

Here's a scenario:

 

A main line railway terminus is planned and built. But there was a problem over the gradient leaving the station - the locomotives of the day (state of the art) were not powerful enough to pull a train of coaches out of the station and up the bank. So a system of endless rope pulleys was designed driven by a huge stationary steam plant largely built underground that hauled the trains of coaches out of the terminus to the top of the bank where waiting locomotives were coupled on. But there was another hitch. Due to a curve in the track layout at the tail end of the platforms, the endless rope system could not be attached to the trains standing in the station, as the rope would have 'jumped' the guides - so a team of men were deployed to manually push the train with all aboard to a point just past the curve that allowed connection to the rope.

 

True or false?

 

The kind of eejits that came up with such a terminus are not unlike those who control the spending of public money on things like HS2, and who continue to control our everyday lives.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Derek R.

[matty40s]

Old Oak Common is well known to anoraks students of railways - it was the site of the Great Western's main engine sheds for trains from Paddington and, as such, was a magnet for boys brandishing Ian Allen locospotters' books and sharp pencils!

 

As the Eurostar leaves from St. Pancras, and one assumes that the HS2 would connect with those European services, I wonder why it's suppose dto start from OOC instead.

they are going to re-introduce the Olympic waterbuses to join the two.

 

But seriously...

 

euston is the link from st pancras to OOC.

[mrsmelly]

In vast countries like France I fully understand the relevance of very fast trains.

 

In our small crowded island there is no need.

 

If the governments and companies spent more time looking at alternatives to things like face to face meetings, conferences and the like it could reduce the need for travel considerably.

 

Absolutely right. My bro in law for many years was a director of a large American electronics company. He had offices in Chicago, Belfast, Sweden and dont laugh " Milton Keynes" He had managers in all these locations and I remember clearly that TEN years ago in his office in his house he had flat screens around the room and some magic gadgets and he held meetings with all those offices at the same time, all looking and talking to each other and sorting out their business. He rarely had to get on an aeroplane.

As I said that was ten years ago and technology has moved on immeasureably in that time. Office workers have no need to move anywhere anymore and a vile huge fast train is simply not needed in 2013 never mind in several years time when the monstrosity would be finished.

 

Tim

[cheshire~rose]

One of those eureka moments!! - HS2 have finally acknowledged the maps they have used are wrong!! That might be why their route shows their track ploughing through a navigable canal and bright shiny basin that they only show as a "disused canal"

 

Of course it is not HS2's fault - it is because Ordnance Survey had not updated their maps. Obviously the telephone numbers they paid to consultants did not extend to one to check the maps they were using were current!

 

Anyway ......... - HS2 have responded to Chesterfield Canal Trust with regard to the matter:

 

 

17 September 2013 HS2 Ltd response:

“Due to an omission by the Ordnance Survey (OS), there was a mistake with maps showing the Staveley Infrastructure Maintenance Depot, that we issued in July as part of our public consultation outlining the proposed line of route for HS2 Phase Two. The Staveley Town Basin was surveyed in March 2013 by the OS, but it was not included in the updated mapping they supplied HS2 Ltd in July.

“OS have confirmed that the Staveley Town Basin will be included when the mapping is next reissued to customers in October. We encourage the Chesterfield Canal Trust to participate in the public consultation, which runs until 31 January. Information gathered through the consultation will help inform the decision on the final preferred route, which will include how the line traverses existing infrastructure – including canals. Please see below a statement issued by OS.”

 

 

 

Ordnance Survey response:

“OS VectorMap Local and our mid-scale products are derived from data held in our large scale database. The revision schedule for OS VectorMap Local is to supply updated map tiles to customers every 3 months. Where possible we aspire to include into these releases any major changes which have previously been surveyed into our large scale database.

“The canal extension was available in our large scale products in late March 2013, too late for the April OS VectorMap Local release but it should have been included in the July update. Unfortunately on this occasion the change was omitted from this release which we understand was used by you for HS2 consultations. The next scheduled update is due in October and will definitely include the extension to the Chesterfield Canal at Staveley.

“We are sorry that we failed to provide this particular update within the July 2013 product release. We have reviewed our procedures to identify and understand the causes of this omission and have put in place changes to ensure that this isolated incident is not repeated elsewhere.”

 

 

 

Chesterfield Canal Trust:

 

"You will see that HS2 Ltd. specifically ask us to respond so that they can take the canal's restoration route into consideration "We encourage the Chesterfield Canal Trust to participate in the public consultation, which runs until 31 January. Information gathered through the consultation will help inform the decision on the final preferred route, which will include how the line traverses existing infrastructure – including canals."

The Trust will be making a full response, but we urge individuals to respond as well so that HS2 get an accurate assessment of the widespread public support that we enjoy."

 

 

So now it is over to you, please, if you have not already done so lodge your objections. The instructions for doing so are on the very first post of this thread. If you have no other objections about other areas of the proposed route and follow the instructions it will only take you a couple of minutes. Of course you are free to respond to as many of the sections as you wish but if you are able to include an objection to help The Chesterfield Canal Trust get their voice heard then your support will be very helpful indeed

 

This link is directly to the information I have already quoted above if anyone wishes to see the source:

http://www.chesterfield-canal-trust.org.uk/index.php/latest-news/general-news/514-hs2-responds-to-our-concerns-about-maps

Edited November 3, 2013 by cheshire~rose

[Guest]

Does rather beg the question of how many other places does the actual proposed route differ from the one that has been mapped.

Edited November 3, 2013 by The Dog House

[Ange]

Many I suspect. I worry that so much public money is being thrown down the toilet

Edited November 3, 2013 by Ange

[Ange]

The problem is they can't back down now- they've spent too much public money to admit they were wrong. The biggest problem we face is that no government or politician cares about anything beyond their term of office or hopes of re-election

[Derek R.]

Most of them need their heads removed to change their minds. Play the political office until ousted then become consultants and gain places on boards of directors. 'Fake it 'til you make it' springs to mind.

 

This lack of accurate data is rife within government departments - not least amongst road accident statistics but that's another bucket of worms.

 

A little bit of good news. Goes a long way but needs working on - Object!

[Higgs]

If I want to get somewhere 20 minutes sooner, I generally leave earlier. Can't they just move the timetables forward.

 

It's not as if we're getting anywhere quick, in much comfort. I'm still living in the days when you could turn up at the station and get a cheap day-return. The last time I caught a train was in Spain 30 years ago. Barcelona to Algerceras - 22 hrs.

[cheshire~rose]

 

 

A little bit of good news. Goes a long way but needs working on - Object!

Indeed - I hope everyone heeds your wise words

[cheshire~rose]

There is a short video here. Eckington Parish TV came to video the launch of Chesterfield Canal Trust's Santa trips with all the dignitaries and managed to get two of the local MP's to give their view on HS2 in front of the camera - just in case anyone is interested

 

If Richard (RLWP) happens to watch this he might see his new recruit to Tawny Owl lockwheeling has found herself a new job working with Santa!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WPGEsOFlNU

 

Don't forget to take a moment to lodge your objections folks - thank you to everyone who already has