Dutch barge narrow beam wheel steering.

[Boat&Bikes]

Anyone who has experience of steering these care to give me their views on how it differs from tiller steering a narrowboat.?

 

Thanks.

 

Ian.

[carlt]

Well set up wheel steering is just as responsive as tiller steering and a lot warmer and dryer, when the weather turns.

 

It is a bit of a transition but, once used to it you barely notice a difference.

[mrsmelly]

Anyone who has experience of steering these care to give me their views on how it differs from tiller steering a narrowboat.?

 

Thanks.

 

Ian.

Wheel steering is not as precise as tiller steering but once mastered it does the job. Everyone has their own view but I vastly prefer tiller steering even though I have wheel steering at work.

 

Tim

[Captain Fizz]

As Tim says really.

It also depends a lot on what system of wheel steering you employ. Whether it is hydraulic, cable or, traditionally on Dutch barges, chain.

You don't get the same rudder feedback that you get from a tiller.

As winter approaches, the cosy environment of a wheelhouse is very appealing.

[bargemast]

I often hear the remarks of wheelsteering not being precise, for everybody that doesn't believe it's precise, I advice to come to France and spend a day, or longer watching barges on the smaller canals get into the narrow locks, which are very often just behind a bend in the canal, so you can't line-up before you get there, still getting in without a problem.

 

Sadly enough I haven't got my barges anymore to show you personally, and let you feel and try for yourself, but the view of the barges entering these narrow locks will change your ideas about this.

 

American friends of mine built a narrowboat Dutch barge, that was the prettiest NB.Dutch barge I've ever seen, just put "Allegheny" in the search box, and you can see a few photos of her.

 

She had wheelsteering that was very precise, made up with sprockets and chain of an old motorbike, nothing hydraulic or complicated or expensive, and she was a pleasure to steer with plenty of rudder feedback.

 

Peter.

Edited October 14, 2013 by bargemast

[Phoenix_V]

Be aware that most hydraulic wheel systems will only turn the rudder about 30 degrees, this is ok on rivers but a narrowboat on canals needs the rudder to turn rather further. It can be done but usually isnt.

[Timleech]

With a tiller, you can respond almost instantly. That can be a big advantage if you are boating in shallow water, where the stern of the boat can get pulled around by Monsieur Bernoulli. Wheel steering takes a bit more getting used to, in shallow water.

 

Tim

[PaddingtonBear]

There is no such thing . I am now learning from MtB :0

[mrsmelly]

I often hear the remarks of wheelsteering not being precise, for everybody that doesn't believe it's precise, I advice to come to France and spend a day, or longer watching barges on the smaller canals get into the narrow locks, which are very often just behind a bend in the canal, so you can't line-up before you get there, still getting in without a problem.

 

Sadly enough I haven't got my barges anymore to show you personally, and let you feel and try for yourself, but the view of the barges entering these narrow locks will change your ideas about this.

 

American friends of mine built a narrowboat Dutch barge, that was the prettiest NB.Dutch barge I've ever seen, just put "Allegheny" in the search box, and you can see a few photos of her.

 

She had wheelsteering that was very precise, made up with sprockets and chain of an old motorbike, nothing hydraulic or complicated or expensive, and she was a pleasure to steer with plenty of rudder feedback.

 

Peter.

Hi Peter

 

Perhaps precise is not the best word but tiller steering is much quicker and infinately accurate. My old Dad worked on barges out of Goole on the Ouse, Humber and Trent down to Nottingham and some of the barges he steered were big boats and some had tiller steering and some had wheel. He had no preference if I recall but then again working boatmen in the 1930s were made of sterner stuff than us kids. I prefer a tiller as being stood right on the back end with all the boat before you is easier than any position forward, especialy in my boats at work with wheel steering at the front and eighty odd feet of boat behind me that I cannot see. Of course personal taste does come into it but give me a tiller anytime over a wheel.

 

Tim

[Timleech]

There is no such thing . I am now learning from MtB :0

 

No such thing as what? Wheel steering?

Edited October 14, 2013 by Timleech

[Dominic M]

I had wheel steering fitted to my car and I would never go back. It's fantastic.

[mrsmelly]

I had wheel steering fitted to my car and I would never go back. It's fantastic.

 

Keep taking the tablets Dom.

 

Tim

[Dank]

We have a Vetus hydraulic set up on ours but have found it beneficial to increase the rudder movement from 35 to 50 deg as making tight manoeuvres or winding you find you tend to get too much forward motion.

Might I also suggest a rudder indicator. (Waits for tiller girls and old farts to pick themselves off the bar room floor)

You can't see the rudder, so if you have been station keeping in a lock or waiting for one it's nice to know in what direction you will move off.

As has already been mentioned it is slower to operate but no less accurate and it has the added bonus that you can let go of it long enough to pick up your rum without running aground

 

David

[mrsmelly]

We have a Vetus hydraulic set up on ours but have found it beneficial to increase the rudder movement from 35 to 50 deg as making tight manoeuvres or winding you find you tend to get too much forward motion.

Might I also suggest a rudder indicator. (Waits for tiller girls and old farts to pick themselves off the bar room floor)

You can't see the rudder, so if you have been station keeping in a lock or waiting for one it's nice to know in what direction you will move off.

As has already been mentioned it is slower to operate but no less accurate and it has the added bonus that you can let go of it long enough to pick up your rum without running aground

 

David

 

Hadnt thought of that...............a very valid point indeed !!

 

Tim

[blackrose]

I often hear the remarks of wheelsteering not being precise, for everybody that doesn't believe it's precise, I advice to come to France and spend a day, or longer watching barges on the smaller canals get into the narrow locks, which are very often just behind a bend in the canal, so you can't line-up before you get there, still getting in without a problem.

 

Sadly enough I haven't got my barges anymore to show you personally, and let you feel and try for yourself, but the view of the barges entering these narrow locks will change your ideas about this.

 

American friends of mine built a narrowboat Dutch barge, that was the prettiest NB.Dutch barge I've ever seen, just put "Allegheny" in the search box, and you can see a few photos of her.

 

She had wheelsteering that was very precise, made up with sprockets and chain of an old motorbike, nothing hydraulic or complicated or expensive, and she was a pleasure to steer with plenty of rudder feedback.

 

Peter.

 

I do understand what you're saying Peter, but I have to slightly disagree. While it's true that any handling that can be done with a tiller can also be achieved with a wheel, I'd say that with a wheel the skill of the steerer is a more significant factor. As you say, with a good wheel steering setup there may well be plently of rudder feedback, but given the extra hydraulics, or chains and linkages this will mean it's never going to be quite as direct as a rudder.

 

Also (off-topic) I know the subject was narrow Dutch-style barges, but some posts here assume that wheel steering is synonymous with and always done within wheelhouses and cite this as one benefit of wheel steering. It's not always of course. There are plenty of boats with wheel steering but without wheelhouses.

Edited October 14, 2013 by blackrose

[blackrose]

We have a Vetus hydraulic set up on ours but have found it beneficial to increase the rudder movement from 35 to 50 deg as making tight manoeuvres or winding you find you tend to get too much forward motion.

Might I also suggest a rudder indicator. (Waits for tiller girls and old farts to pick themselves off the bar room floor)

You can't see the rudder, so if you have been station keeping in a lock or waiting for one it's nice to know in what direction you will move off.

As has already been mentioned it is slower to operate but no less accurate and it has the added bonus that you can let go of it long enough to pick up your rum without running aground

 

David

 

...and it has the added bonus that you can let go of it long enough to pick up your rum without running aground

 

 

I think you can let go of most tillers for long enough to do whatever needs to be done... although having said that I didn't attempt to have a piss off the side of my widebeam whilst single handing on the Thames at night from Limehouse to Teddington and pissed into a plastic pot with the tiller under my arm instead.

[FadeToScarlet]

Hadnt thought of that...............a very valid point indeed !!

 

Tim

I thought St Steve of Glascote would have fitted balanced or self centring rudders, I can let go of the tiller, get to the cupboard with rum and glasses in and get back without going aground. The tiller is on a slight rake, and the rudder not balanced, so it steers itself.

[PaddingtonBear]

 

No such thing as what? Wheel steering?

A dutch barge narrow beam

[blackrose]

A dutch barge narrow beam

 

But there is such a thing as a Dutch barge-style narrowbeam which is what he was talking about.

[GUMPY]

Be aware that most hydraulic wheel systems will only turn the rudder about 30 degrees, this is ok on rivers but a narrowboat on canals needs the rudder to turn rather further. It can be done but usually isnt.

Where did you get that priceless non fact from?

Its all down to the design, I fitted hydraulic steeing to Parglena lock to lock variable from 4.5 to 9 turns and 110deg between stops. If you only have 60deg your system is broke.

[Dank]

Where did you get that priceless non fact from?

Its all down to the design, I fitted hydraulic steeing to Parglena lock to lock variable from 4.5 to 9 turns and 110deg between stops. If you only have 60deg your system is broke.

Try Vetus manuals - all appear to show 35 deg each way

[Neil2]

Tiller vs wheel is a favourite debate in the yotting world. Must admit the first time I sailed a "wheel steered" yacht it was a revelation but they tend only to be fitted to bigger vessels. I too thought it would feel less direct but I much prefer it though the fact that you are often steering when heeled over might have something to do with it. I would love to try a wheel steered NB though and being under cover is a big attraction.

[Dank]

I would love to try a wheel steered NB though and being under cover is a big attraction.

Don't bank on it. In most cases you have to run with the top down or the first arch bridge will have it away.

 

David

[George94]

Tillers are for small boats, wheels are for large boats. A friend has a largish Tchalk (a common type of Dutch sailing barge) which still has all its sailing gear and its original tiller. It's much less easy to do a sharp turn and use the throttle and gear controls (which by necessity are on the tiller) on this boat than on mine, which has had its tiller removed in favour of a wheel.

[GUMPY]

Try Vetus manuals - all appear to show 35 deg each way

that's 10deg more than was quoted.

I wouldn't buy Vetus anything totally overpriced carp