How Many BW Converted Workboats Still Exist?

[alan_fincher]

From memory the bastardisation of Aynho was most like Carnaby, including cutting down a length of the hull sides, alti this was not the same for both boats.

I think it MAY have been made even shorter than Carnaby, possibly.

It was in the same set of disposals as Carnaby, and IIRC possibly boats like Taygeta. (EDIT: Correction! Seems Aynho and Carnaby were in the same disposal list as boats like Effingham and Pinner - round about three years ago....)

Struggling with phone - more when I have a keyboard!

Edited September 24, 2013 by alan_fincher

[alan_fincher]

Quick answer on Renton.....

Retained ice blade well into 1970s at least, but a much simpler affair than Sickle, Tycho etc.

Used to be engine forward, but, unusually under deck boards not in an engine room.

Presumably ice blade cut off when engine moved to back and modern cabin added. Don't know date, but I'd guess 1980s.

I suspect cabin construction style probably shares a lot with Python, but I think all were different as they made it up as they went along.

Not sure it's mentioned but Sudbury was another shortened conversion. Its current owner has reverted its layout but many features of the conversion remain, like "washing line post" style dollies!

Edited September 24, 2013 by alan_fincher

[jake_crew]

We went to view Aynho at Limehouse prior to the auction a couple of years ago.

 

I should have photos at home which I'll look for tonight.

 

From memory I'd say she was similar to Carnaby, reverse cabin layout (ie engine by the rear hatches), with the open cabin in front of that. This open fronted cabin held the "honey" tank and equipment.

 

Not sure about the lowered gunnels tho.

[cheshire~rose]

Thank you everyone for your very valuable input on this. It is very much appreciated. I look forward to the updates when people get back to their proper computers again

[alan_fincher]

"Arcas" with "Sickle"





("Arcas" [small Woolwich] front end left, "Sickle" [Middle Northwich] right)



"Renton"

I would need to check date, but not that long before disposal, I think.....

Sickle of course has now lost her "BW-isation", but used to look like this.....

Pictures circa 1997 - Courtesy Lawrence Williams

 

Pictures Circa 1985 - Courtesy Roger Allsop

Edited September 24, 2013 by alan_fincher

[alan_fincher]

I am unable to find any images of Aynho anywhere but I suspect it would have a similar cabin to those shown above. Does anyone know how long ago it was that it was sold to it's new owner and vanished? Does anyone have any photo's of it from prior to this?

 

Try Sarah ("Chertsey's") "Town Class Sticker album here

[jake_crew]

 

Try Sarah ("Chertsey's") "Town Class Sticker album here

 

That's the one !

 

I stand corrected - it does have the lowered gunnels.

[Heartland]

From a historical point of view, it would nice to know why and for what purpose boats were shortened by BW, was the reason based on making craft more versatile for passing locks such as on the Leeds & Liverpool? Also can Python pass the locks of the Chesterfield west of Retford?

 

Ray Shill

[ChimneyChain]

Slough looks totally unrecognisable as a former GU boat. Is it a part of the large yarwoods boat that was i think shortened or has it got no connection to that boat at all.

 

Darren

[alan_fincher]

From a historical point of view, it would nice to know why and for what purpose boats were shortened by BW, was the reason based on making craft more versatile for passing locks such as on the Leeds & Liverpool?

 

Ray Shill

I very much doubt it, or at least for the vast majority of boats cut at places like Bulls Bridge in the 1970s / 1980s.

 

I think it's very unlikely they were intended to venture anything like that far North, or that they ever did under BW ownership.

 

I'm guessing the fact they can be turned across many places on the cut, without having to go to the next winding hole was a major consideration in cutting at least the boats that ended up in the 40 to 50 foot length range. This would be a major help on short haul runs to unload dredgings, as mud hoppers could be pulled either way with no need of a winding hole, so if a tug doesn't need a winding hole either large amounts of unnecessary miles might be saved.

 

As few were less than 40 feet, and most BW work flats were by then getting on for at least that length, what it didn't really open up was the possibility of getting a tug and flat in line in the same lock designed for bots up to 70 feet, although some flats wee as short as 30 feet, I think, and then this would have been possible.

 

Also, particularly if you take the case of wood bottomed "composite" boats, it was probably considered more cost effective to shorten them, and only put steel bottoms into 40 or 50 feet, rather than doing so for a boat of 70 feet, where that 70 foot length no longer served a useful purpose. I'm not sure how many of the "all steel" boats like "Towns" also acquired a new (or over-plated) bottom as part of the conversion, but given the state of boats being converted, that was probably highly likely in some cases.

Slough looks totally unrecognisable as a former GU boat. Is it a part of the large yarwoods boat that was i think shortened or has it got no connection to that boat at all.

 

Darren

No it isn't "Town" "Big Northwich" Slough, but is still recognisably the back end of a "Grand Union".

 

She is fact part of "Small Woolwich" "Deimos".

 

The real "Slough" also survives, with a cabin conversion, but, (IIRC) with dropped hull sides to accommodate large picture windows.

 

I can't recall what happened to the front end of "Deimos" - I wonder if Pete Harrisson would tell us, please?

[cheshire~rose]

 

Try Sarah ("Chertsey's") "Town Class Sticker album here

 

Thanks for that Alan

 

 

 

Also can Python pass the locks of the Chesterfield west of Retford?

 

Ray Shill

 

Python usually over winters at Shire Oaks and up until last winter this involved us booking passage through Morse Lock with BW/CRT who would have to raise the lower pound a considerable amount to facilitate her safe passage.

 

Morse lock was widened last winter and so it is no longer a pinch point. Python was the first boat to test it for size when it reopened and she rattles about in there now!

 

There is another lock further up that is rather tight but that is also on CRT's list of things to get around to but it is nowhere near as tight as Morse was

Edited September 24, 2013 by cheshire~rose

[alan_fincher]

If you have access to the HNBC Members lists and/or Boat lists, you can find contact details for some of these boats, Aynho included.

 

It is a condition of seeing these lists that you don't pass details on to anybody, but I note you are a member, so you can access them on the members area of the HNBC web-site, if you care to.

 

The email address associated with Aynho may give a clue to current location, possibly.

[cheshire~rose]

 

("Arcas" [small Woolwich] front end left, "Sickle" [Middle Northwich] right)

 

 

 

Sickle of course has now lost her "BW-isation", but used to look like this.....

 

Pictures circa 1997 - Courtesy Lawrence Williams

 

Pictures Circa 1985 - Courtesy Roger Allsop

 

If Sickle still looked like that I would need to include in my list of Pythoneque boats, I have to say she looks so much better now

If you have access to the HNBC Members lists and/or Boat lists, you can find contact details for some of these boats, Aynho included.

 

It is a condition of seeing these lists that you don't pass details on to anybody, but I note you are a member, so you can access them on the members area of the HNBC web-site, if you care to.

 

The email address associated with Aynho may give a clue to current location, possibly.

 

Thanks Alan, yes the HNBC site is a wealth of information. I will admit I have not viewed in via the members area and perhaps I should as I suspect I would see much more information

[Timleech]

 

Also, particularly if you take the case of wood bottomed "composite" boats, it was probably considered more cost effective to shorten them, and only put steel bottoms into 40 or 50 feet, rather than doing so for a boat of 70 feet, where that 70 foot length no longer served a useful purpose. I'm not sure how many of the "all steel" boats like "Towns" also acquired a new (or over-plated) bottom as part of the conversion, but given the state of boats being converted, that was probably highly likely in some cases.

 

Kenilworth had a fair bit of concrete in the bottom, as repair/reinforcement.

 

I should think reduced maintenance/repair costs were indeed a factor in some of the shortenings.

Some oop North were shortened as 'tunnel boats' with square punt ends, my understanding is that was so that they could be loaded/unloaded from the end in the confines of a narrow tunnel, especially Harecastle.

Gambia and Siberia were two such, some ex-BCN boats had the same treatment.

 

Tim

 

 

Tim

Tim

[Derek R.]

Thanks for that link to Roger Alsop's pics of SICKLE - I see my wife and eldest daughter are in them!

[pete harrison]

I can't recall what happened to the front end of "Deimos" - I wonder if Pete Harrisson would tell us, please?

The front end of DIEMOS is still attached to the rear section of DIEMOS, but is heavily modified with push equipment (the angle iron where the fore end bulkead was riveted through is still in place - or it was when I photographed it on 15 September 1999). DIEMOS is missing just about all of its flat sides, most of which was removed in October 1966 when it was renamed B33 and some at Bulls Bridge when it was converted into a push tug and renamed SLOUGH. I do not know what happened to the flat sides.

Slough looks totally unrecognisable as a former GU boat. Is it a part of the large yarwoods boat that was i think shortened or has it got no connection to that boat at all.

 

Darren

The large Northwich SLOUGH was one of the last boats returned to B.W.B. from Willow Wren Canal Transport Services Ltd.. This boat was retained by B.W.B. and became a fully converted 'inspection boat', usually based at Bulbourne on the southern Grand Union Canal. B.W.B. sold SLOUGH in 1987.

[alan_fincher]

The front end of DIEMOS is still attached to the rear section of DIEMOS, but is heavily modified with push equipment (the angle iron where the fore end bulkead was riveted through is still in place - or it was when I photographed it on 15 September 1999). DIEMOS is missing just about all of its flat sides, most of which was removed in October 1966 when it was renamed B33 and some at Bulls Bridge when it was converted into a push tug and renamed SLOUGH. I do not know what happened to the flat sides.

 

Oops! Sorry!

 

But "Deimos" rather than "Diemos" surely, or is that one where what was painted on the boat was not what appears in some of the listings?

Thanks for that link to Roger Alsop's pics of SICKLE - I see my wife and eldest daughter are in them!

Great, aren't they.

 

I was chuffed when Roger approached me with them - REALLY chuffed.

 

Now if anybody has an identifiable picture of "Sickle" brreaking ice with the ram still present, that would be even better. We live in hope!

[cheshire~rose]

I think it is truly fantastic that with the advent of electronic communication so many lovely old photo's are being made available to enthusiasts of all kinds.

 

It is wonderful that so many of the owners of the photo's are so generous to allow them to be used. I wish we could find a few more of Python.

[Black Ibis]

I think it is truly fantastic that with the advent of electronic communication so many lovely old photo's are being made available to enthusiasts of all kinds.

 

It is wonderful that so many of the owners of the photo's are so generous to allow them to be used. I wish we could find a few more of Python.

Yes!

 

When we were sent a photo of our boat Willow from 1943 (see thread) yesterday, I was beside myself with excitement! Due to the advent of modern technology we have been able to find photos of the boat that the previous owner had not been able to uncover, and have been able to share them with him, too, which is lovely.

 

Good luck finding more of Python!

[cheshire~rose]

Ok so I now have to consider Gailey

 

 

and Malvern

 

 

pics Ros Prettyman

Yes!

 

When we were sent a photo of our boat Willow from 1943 (see thread) yesterday, I was beside myself with excitement! Due to the advent of modern technology we have been able to find photos of the boat that the previous owner had not been able to uncover, and have been able to share them with him, too, which is lovely.

 

Good luck finding more of Python!

 

I saw that photo. I can imagine how exciting it would be to come across new old material like that.

[alan_fincher]

If you are including full length boats like Malvern think I may have lost the plot over exactly what criteria qualify a boat for inclusion!

 

What about "Hercules" then, which I think is a bit "BW-ised" but nothing like as badly so as some?

 

It's certainly no longer pure "Small Woolwich", I think.

[Ray T]

Don't know if it is of any use, but, an article which includes Alder and Renton here:

 

http://www.uk-boating.tv/videos?vid=133

 

ETA. Oh dear! the clip cuts out when it gets interesting.

Edited September 24, 2013 by Ray T

[alan_fincher]

Don't know if it is of any use, but, an article which includes Alder and Renton here:

 

http://www.uk-boating.tv/videos?vid=133

 

ETA. Oh dear! the clip cuts out when it gets interesting.

Yes but.....

 

The lady says "this is Alder", but they then largely show shots of "Renton" at that point.

 

Never mind - most people will not notice, I guess!

[Laurence Hogg]

"Barnet" is still as she came from BW, the only structural changes I have made are the fitting of a better larger easy access weedhatch and the addition in the hold of part running gear, otherwise she is, "as was" when sold by BW. She lost her "space age" cabin in the early 1990's when she was returned to more normal guise, this is the cabin we still have, its slightly higher than it should be by about 3" but we can put up with that!

Edited September 24, 2013 by Laurence Hogg

[pete harrison]

But "Deimos" rather than "Diemos" surely, or is that one where what was painted on the boat was not what appears in some of the listings?

spelling mistake on my behalf - please do not read anything else into it.