What is traditional? and another thing

[Ray T]

So do you think that they might have originated from the old fairy tales that they might have heard as children, even seen some illustrations. The pictures are far removed from the reality of their every day lives, escapism of kinds?

 

When will the leisure boats become part of the tradition of canal use? Or are they now without us realising it? How old is the oldest known leisure narrow boat? Where they purpose built or the old working boats converted?

 

Sorry so many questions but really interested in the more modern history of narrow boats.

 

Item 1 Much of the art was copied from contemporary art of the early - mid 1800's - pictures, faces of grandfather clocks, the art of japanning. This was done to decorate otherwise dull boats when the working boatmen and their families moved on to the cut full time due to economic pressures. Again I suggest you get hold of Tony Lewrey's "Flowers Afloat", much more explanatory than can be put here. It also covers more modern history, what Tony calls "The souvenir Disease".

 

There is also a school of thought that thinks some of the art work may have been copied from Romany Caravans, but this is usually discounted.

 

Item 2 Were they purpose built or the old working boats converted? Both. Many of the early leisure boats on the cut were cabin cruisers. I don't have the knowledge to answer the other bits but I do know working boats were often used for Sunday School outings etc The IWA exhibition at Market Harborough in 1950, I think, gave pleasure boat rides, surely leisure boat use?

 

Although it is a spoof film "The Bargee" shows the type of cabin cruiser I am on about.

 

If ever you are around Braunston I suggest you visit the Boat Shop http://www.boatshopbraunston.co.uk/books.htm All manner of books there will assist you in your research.

Edited September 17, 2013 by Ray T

[dave moore]

Hi all

 

Phil has beaten me to it, I would have said almost word for word what he has done. Much of the painting in carrying days was done by a dock painter. A few had sufficient work to make that their only trade whilst others would have been boat builders who had a flair with a paintbrush and done the work as part of the boat's docking and repainting/decorating schedule. Each painter/yard had their own style and boaters could tell where a boat had been docked by the style of work. The same is true today...Phil and I work in the same market but have instantly discernible stylistic differences which are our trademarks. I'm sometimes asked to sign work and always refuse, saying that the work itself is sufficient signature. Teaching both roses and castles and lettering from time to time, I'm often asked for "Rules" such as how many petals, what shape mountains and so on. As long as your customer is happy and the work is in keeping with stuff from trading days, that's fine in my book. Again, Tony's excellent "Flowers Afloat" will prove fascinating reading for anyone interested.

 

As far as recent leisure boat history goes....back in the 50's/60's, many boaters had cabin cruisers or converted pontoons, along with some ex working boats, either full length or cut down. Certainly in the 60s many ex working boats were so treated. Butties had their sterns cut off and a counter fitted, the butty stern sometimes forming the bow of another boat. Some local builders such as Malcolm Braine and Denis Cooper at Norton Canes started to build steel hulls with wooden cabins. Steel cabins were a later development and the market grew. Much of the modern output I think of as boats built by fabricators, perfectly competent at plating/welding etc but without the fine lines balance and proportion of the boatbuilders at the top end of the market.

 

Hope this helps

 

Dave

[Mike Tee]

Why? The additional effort when you're closing the gates and thus are there anyway is negligible compared to the effort of closing them when leaving the lock.

I drop the paddles automatically when opening the gates to let the boat out

 

Or to be specific - narrowboat in a wide lock, I wait on the opposite side to the boat, when I feel the gate is released, I drop the paddle, walk over the beam, open the other side and then drop the second paddle. If I have to go out with the boat and wait while I nip back to shut the gate (which I have always done as it is now the 'norm') this is the time saved if we all left the gates open. We don't, so it is all a bit academic.

[Ray T]

Some have been sold, others have reduced capacity being subject to the above act. Some of these are being improved, eg Todbrook and Combs on the Upper Peak have new valves fitted increasing the discharge rate.

 

However the major problem with all reservoirs is the lack of dredging which, if anything is worse than the canals themselves (out of sight out of mind?). Capacity has thus been so reduced that an apparently full reservoir is anything but.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

Watching Industrial Revolations with Mark Williams tonight it struck me that a lot of water for the canals was pumped from mine workings. I assume all this is now "lost"?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFQ-f1Ax_Pg

Edited September 17, 2013 by Ray T

[furnessvale]

Watching Industrial Revolations with Mark Williams tonight it struck me that a lot of water for the canals was pumped from mine workings. I assume all this is now "lost"?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFQ-f1Ax_Pg

Not necessarily. I believe even with a closed mine, there is sometimes a legacy of pumping needed according to local groundwater conditions.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[furnessvale]

Not necessarily. I believe even with a closed mine, there is sometimes a legacy of pumping needed according to local groundwater conditions.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

 

Deleted (trouble with You Tube player)

Edited September 17, 2013 by furnessvale

[rubblequeen]

Hi Guys many thanks for your in depth knowledge and yes I plan to get the books recommended - fascinating subject. But not sure what the thoughts are as to when us leisure narrow boaters might become part of the canal heritage?

[Laurence Hogg]

Hi Guys many thanks for your in depth knowledge and yes I plan to get the books recommended - fascinating subject. But not sure what the thoughts are as to when us leisure narrow boaters might become part of the canal heritage?

 

You are already but you dont know it. I am using footage and stills from from honeymoon with the ex in films now and yet they were taken as a record of the journey (Our honeymoon was Brum - Stoke Bruerne and return to Norton Canes!). In thirty years tine folks will want your memories.

Watching Industrial Revolations with Mark Williams tonight it struck me that a lot of water for the canals was pumped from mine workings. I assume all this is now "lost"?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFQ-f1Ax_Pg

Very much not. One example is Bradley on the BCN, the pumps there are situated in old mineshafts.

[Ray T]

 

Very much not. One example is Bradley on the BCN, the pumps there are situated in old mineshafts.

 

Thanks Laurence, it's just that mine water pumping never appears to feature in the canal press or any of CRT's information.

 

1960's heritage here:

 

World of the Waterways Beulah Library Roll F60

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXTCxTIk99Q

 

Edited September 18, 2013 by Ray T

[springy]

Watching Industrial Revolations with Mark Williams tonight it struck me that a lot of water for the canals was pumped from mine workings. I assume all this is now "lost"

 

 

 

Very much not. One example is Bradley on the BCN, the pumps there are situated in old mineshafts.

 

AIUI historically mines pumped water into the canal to "get rid of it and allow the mine to be worked" the fact that this also helped to keep "their" transport links working was a bonus/benefit and hence some stretches were lost when a mine ceased pumping but with the mine closed there was no need for the link, however the pumps at bradley are now CRT owned/operated to keep the canals topped up.

 

springy

[Ian Mac]

Watching Industrial Revolations with Mark Williams tonight it struck me that a lot of water for the canals was pumped from mine workings. I assume all this is now "lost"?

 

At least two supplies into the BCN are from Mines, with Pumps. The main one which is used is at Bradley Works well actually just behind the works in a separate shed, as Laurence says, although they prefer not to have to use them as they bring, Yellow Oaker(sp?) (an Iron rich deposit) up into the canal and this causes the oxygen levels to fall dramatically and excessive weed growth. There is another mine with a pump near the start of the Curley Werley in Hampton, but that isn't used all that often - higher levels of oaker. Unless Chase water is out of use as it was the other year. then they pay there(your) money and Pump. The shaft at Bradley is of an unknown depth. They have had several attempt to measure it but have currently given up until better/cheaper technology comes along.

[Rufford]

Whats wrong with a weight on the end of a long line?!

[RLWP]

Whats wrong with a weight on the end of a long line?!

 

Is it the conker season?

 

Richard