Can someone with aspergers/autism buy a boat?

[mrsmelly]

I have ashbergers/autism spectrum disorder and find it hard to negotiate with people.

I have seen a boat at a Marina but am unable to purchase it because of the Sales Staff at the Marina. Is there some kind of service where you pay someone else to do the negotiating? I know it is advisable to get a servey done on a boat, but it is not much use to me if I am unable to negotiate even with the report

Hi

 

Starry is a star and will help you I am sure. If you need further help we are quite a long way off but my wife works with and trains people with your condition and will help from a distance if that is any use to you. Please send me a personal message if this is any help to you.

 

Cheers

 

Tim

[Arthur Brown]

If you have an allocated social worker or health professional (nurse, consultant etc) ask them for suggestions too.

[tree]

I have ashbergers/autism spectrum disorder and find it hard to negotiate with people.

I have seen a boat at a Marina but am unable to purchase it because of the Sales Staff at the Marina. Is there some kind of service where you pay someone else to do the negotiating? I know it is advisable to get a servey done on a boat, but it is not much use to me if I am unable to negotiate even with the report

Hello Papodil,

 

My name is Lorraine and I live in the Northampton area, and I could come and help support you if you would like that. I have been empowering and supporting people in the social care sector for over 30 years, including being an advocate. I am a self employed Independent support worker.

 

I have also been involved with narrowboats for a long time, working on hire boats as well as being part of a boat-fitting company. I have owned 3 different types of narrowboats over the years, and I bought my present boat 3 years ago.

 

If I can be of any help in any way then send me a message.

 

Lorraine.

[bag 'o' bones]

I have ashbergers/autism spectrum disorder and find it hard to negotiate with people.

I have seen a boat at a Marina but am unable to purchase it because of the Sales Staff at the Marina. Is there some kind of service where you pay someone else to do the negotiating? I know it is advisable to get a servey done on a boat, but it is not much use to me if I am unable to negotiate even with the report

From an fellow Aspies perspective:

There is absolutely no reason why an Aspie cannot buy a boat on their own wherever they sit on the spectrum.

 

Reading between the lines of your post:

 

You say that you find it had to negotiate with people, in particular the sales staff at the marina. I am assuming that when you talk to strangers you get the feeling that they perhaps assume that you are: either Rain Man, slightly nuts or ‘backward’ in some way. And then patronise you just to rub it in (probably unintentionally). Those are the some of the reactions I have had to put up with in the past anyway….

 

 

Regardless of having a label or not (something I never wear on my sleeve), LOTS of people find it difficult dealing with sales people whether there buying boats cars houses or whatever. Sales people are there to sell and use every mind trick in the book to clinch the deal.

 

Some people diagnosed with Aspergers might find it difficult to ‘read’ the body language of the other person making them feel inadequate in terms of the haggling process and may feel that they are likely to be taken advantage of and perhaps end up agreeing to something they later regret i.e. signing on the dotted line for a boat that is basically a pile of scrap.

 

But wait a minute that happens to loads of people! Neurological ‘disadvantage’ or not.

 

Assuming that your ‘ how to buy a boat without getting ripped off’ knowledge is limited, then the trick is to be prepared. In other words do your research (something that Aspies are good at in my experience) and if you’re not sure employ a man who does.

 

Hiring a knowledgeable person to negotiate on your behalf is nothing out of ordinary. There countless NT’s out there who know absolutely nothing about mechanical things therefore will pay good money for a surveyor to purchase a boat on their behalf as a matter of course.

 

Simplistically it goes like this:

 

Firstly you see a boat you really like at price that is within your budget; and based on your research appears realistically priced based on having seen a number of boats of similar spec/length age etc. Your surveyor - if any good - should be able to tell you instantly whether a boat is potentially worth the money or not.

You agree to a survey. Surveying highlights a number of problems that need rectifying.

For arguments sake the advertised price minus cost of rectifying faults equals the ‘real price’ of the boat - assuming that original asking price was realistic at the outset. Your surveyor should be able to explain to you which faults are walk away problems unless rectified or at the other end of the scale minor problems which you could live with based on the value of the boat.

The surveyor should be able to give you a number of options along the lines of

‘Walk away’

‘Buy it if there willing to rectify these problems ’

or simply

‘Snap their hands off it’s a bargain despite having a few issues’

 

Negotiating is all about collating the facts and making realistic offers based on the various scenarios that you will have previously discussed with your surveyor. You could instruct your Surveyer to do this for you or just relay the information your self. Simple as that really, stick to your budget and the advice you are given. It is then simply a case of the vendor either accepting your offer or you walk away.

 

In my experience Aspies don’t seem to suffer as much from emotional baggage therefore are likely to make decisions based on hard ‘facts’ rather than peering through rose coloured glasses.

 

Also never be afraid to walk away. If you have offered a realistic price then you might find they will ring you back when they realise their mistake. (which obviously you will have already planned for: say that you are considering another boat at the same price so make me a better offer!)

 

Hope that helps, I’m not an expert at buying boats but whenever I have to ‘negotiate’ it is always conducted in a very logical and methodical way. Removes the ‘emotion’ from the buying process.

[Papodil]

From an fellow Aspies perspective:

There is absolutely no reason why an Aspie cannot buy a boat on their own wherever they sit on the spectrum.

 

Reading between the lines of your post:

 

You say that you find it had to negotiate with people, in particular the sales staff at the marina. I am assuming that when you talk to strangers you get the feeling that they perhaps assume that you are: either Rain Man, slightly nuts or ‘backward’ in some way. And then patronise you just to rub it in (probably unintentionally). Those are the some of the reactions I have had to put up with in the past anyway….

 

 

Regardless of having a label or not (something I never wear on my sleeve), LOTS of people find it difficult dealing with sales people whether there buying boats cars houses or whatever. Sales people are there to sell and use every mind trick in the book to clinch the deal.

 

Some people diagnosed with Aspergers might find it difficult to ‘read’ the body language of the other person making them feel inadequate in terms of the haggling process and may feel that they are likely to be taken advantage of and perhaps end up agreeing to something they later regret i.e. signing on the dotted line for a boat that is basically a pile of scrap.

 

But wait a minute that happens to loads of people! Neurological ‘disadvantage’ or not.

 

Assuming that your ‘ how to buy a boat without getting ripped off’ knowledge is limited, then the trick is to be prepared. In other words do your research (something that Aspies are good at in my experience) and if you’re not sure employ a man who does.

 

Hiring a knowledgeable person to negotiate on your behalf is nothing out of ordinary. There countless NT’s out there who know absolutely nothing about mechanical things therefore will pay good money for a surveyor to purchase a boat on their behalf as a matter of course.

 

Simplistically it goes like this:

 

Firstly you see a boat you really like at price that is within your budget; and based on your research appears realistically priced based on having seen a number of boats of similar spec/length age etc. Your surveyor - if any good - should be able to tell you instantly whether a boat is potentially worth the money or not.

You agree to a survey. Surveying highlights a number of problems that need rectifying.

For arguments sake the advertised price minus cost of rectifying faults equals the ‘real price’ of the boat - assuming that original asking price was realistic at the outset. Your surveyor should be able to explain to you which faults are walk away problems unless rectified or at the other end of the scale minor problems which you could live with based on the value of the boat.

The surveyor should be able to give you a number of options along the lines of

‘Walk away’

‘Buy it if there willing to rectify these problems ’

or simply

‘Snap their hands off it’s a bargain despite having a few issues’

 

Negotiating is all about collating the facts and making realistic offers based on the various scenarios that you will have previously discussed with your surveyor. You could instruct your Surveyer to do this for you or just relay the information your self. Simple as that really, stick to your budget and the advice you are given. It is then simply a case of the vendor either accepting your offer or you walk away.

 

In my experience Aspies don’t seem to suffer as much from emotional baggage therefore are likely to make decisions based on hard ‘facts’ rather than peering through rose coloured glasses.

 

Also never be afraid to walk away. If you have offered a realistic price then you might find they will ring you back when they realise their mistake. (which obviously you will have already planned for: say that you are considering another boat at the same price so make me a better offer!)

 

Hope that helps, I’m not an expert at buying boats but whenever I have to ‘negotiate’ it is always conducted in a very logical and methodical way. Removes the ‘emotion’ from the buying process.

 

It's not clearly obvious I have autism when you meet me. I try and show a composed exterior even when I'm cracking up inside. People might notice I tend to answer questions with short answers like yes or no rather then chatty answers, sometimes I don't understand what is being asked and shrug or give a minimal response which is sometimes interpreted as being a bit rude. Some people sense a weakness and will try and take advantage...

 

But I have not seen a surveyor advertise that they purchase boats for people, where should I look for this and how would they phrase it? Would that also have to be negotiated?

 

Thanks for explaining the process, I have tried to read up on this but no one else has put it in such a clear and helpful way

[bag 'o' bones]

 

It's not clearly obvious I have autism when you meet me. I try and show a composed exterior even when I'm cracking up inside. People might notice I tend to answer questions with short answers like yes or no rather then chatty answers, sometimes I don't understand what is being asked and shrug or give a minimal response which is sometimes interpreted as being a bit rude. Some people sense a weakness and will try and take advantage...

 

But I have not seen a surveyor advertise that they purchase boats for people, where should I look for this and how would they phrase it? Would that also have to be negotiated?

 

Thanks for explaining the process, I have tried to read up on this but no one else has put it in such a clear and helpful way

 

It's not clearly obvious I have autism when you meet me. I try and show a composed exterior even when I'm cracking up inside. People might notice

Its not obvious which is part of the problem. Most people don't notice that you are slightly different in my experience; well they might if they spend any amount of time in company. Not that it is your problem of course : )

 

I tend to answer questions with short answers like yes or no rather then chatty answers,

Nothing wrong with that. Some people talk a lot but don't actually say anything. Sometimes yes or no is all that is needed. Problem is it can come across as a bit blunt (or brutally honest)

 

sometimes I don't understand what is being asked and shrug or give a minimal response which is sometimes interpreted as being a bit rude.

If you don't understand what has been asked then the chances are the person did not explain it properly. There is no shame in asking for clarification, something I have to do on a regular basis!

Some people sense a weakness and will try and take advantage...

The art of the con-man. Even the most savvy and street wise people can fall foul to that one. The trick is not to allow anyone to pressure you into something that your not comfortable with. Counting to 10 in your head before giving a reply usually gives you enough time to work out what has just been said allowing you to give a suitable reply that is a bit more constructive - works for me particularly when under pressure in an unfamiliar situation.

 

But I have not seen a surveyor advertise that they purchase boats for people, where should I look for this and how would they phrase it? Would that also have to be negotiated?

Can't really help on that one other than I suggest that you phone up a few surveyors and ask them if they would be willing to offer such a service. No need to mention Aspergers just tell them that you have little experience in buying boats and want to avoid being taken for a ride. Its not unreasonable to ask them to negotiate on your behalf, you tell them you crap at negotiating and would rather leave it someone who knows what their doing.

Edited August 30, 2013 by bag 'o' bones

[Papodil]

 

It's not clearly obvious I have autism when you meet me. I try and show a composed exterior even when I'm cracking up inside. People might notice

Its not obvious which is part of the problem. Most people don't notice that you are slightly different in my experience; well they might if they spend any amount of time in company. Not that it is your problem of course : )

 

I tend to answer questions with short answers like yes or no rather then chatty answers,

Nothing wrong with that. Some people talk a lot but don't actually say anything. Sometimes yes or no is all that is needed. Problem is it can come across as a bit blunt (or brutally honest)

 

sometimes I don't understand what is being asked and shrug or give a minimal response which is sometimes interpreted as being a bit rude.

If you don't understand what has been asked then the chances are the person did not explain it properly. There is no shame in asking for clarification, something I have to do on a regular basis!

Some people sense a weakness and will try and take advantage...

The art of the con-man. Even the most savvy and street wise people can fall foul to that one. The trick is not to allow anyone to pressure you into something that your not comfortable with. Counting to 10 in your head before giving a reply usually gives you enough time to work out what has just been said allowing you to give a suitable reply that is a bit more constructive - works for me particularly when under pressure in an unfamiliar situation.

 

But I have not seen a surveyor advertise that they purchase boats for people, where should I look for this and how would they phrase it? Would that also have to be negotiated?

Can't really help on that one other than I suggest that you phone up a few surveyors and ask them if they would be willing to offer such a service. No need to mention Aspergers just tell them that you have little experience in buying boats and want to avoid being taken for a ride. Its not unreasonable to ask them to negotiate on your behalf, you tell them you crap at negotiating and would rather leave it someone who knows what their doing.

 

bag 'o' bones I will try and respond to some of your points' not sure how best to quote you with out it getting a jumbled mess, if I do it wrong please try and excuse my error

 

Its not obvious which is part of the problem. Most people don't notice that you are slightly different in my experience; well they might if they spend any amount of time in company. Not that it is your problem of course : )

 

Yes exactly, problem is it can come as a shock to them when they do notice or I get into a situation I can't handle

 

If you don't understand what has been asked then the chances are the person did not explain it properly. There is no shame in asking for clarification, something I have to do on a regular basis!

 

There are some people that I just can't understand where they are coming from, there is a risk that I just end up frustrating them and myself. Also it has become a very automatic response system, done even before I have thought properly, this habit is hard to break especially if I am feeling anxious around a person

 

The trick is not to allow anyone to pressure you into something that your not comfortable with. Counting to 10 in your head before giving a reply usually gives you enough time to work out what has just been said allowing you to give a suitable reply that is a bit more constructive

 

I will try and remember to count to 10 in the future, but of course it is going to be harder to put in practice then to say

Usually I would not deal with anyone who pressures me, I would just walk away. I try and shop only in shops that are too busy so no one will bother me and rent cars rather then buy them. But when buying a boat?

[Peter Reed]

Hi Papodil, welcome to the forum. There are plenty of good peeps on here that offer you advice and might even offer to accompany you to view a boat. You might have to offer incentives such as a cup of tea, cake, yarn or a few 6 inch nails. Good luck in your venture. Reedy.

[patty-ann]

Advice contained within this thread is useful to anyone considering buying a boat--thanks I intend to write it up and use it in my negotiations.

[Catrin]

One of the problems with Autism Spectrum Disorders is that they are often not obvious at first. Our son says "it's a disability not a visibility". I often think a discreet badge might make life easier for everyone. I have seen a t-shirt that said "I'm autistic, what's your problem?" But I think that is probably too in your face.

[Caprifool]

The National Autistic Society sell business cards with a short description. http://www.autism.org.uk/products/core-nas-publications/asperger-cards.aspx

[DHutch]

Quickest way is to click on the avatar (the picture at the side of each post they make) of person you wish to send a message.

- That takes you to their profile.

- Towards the right there is a 'send me a message' button.

You also need a post count of five or more, which you now have, but may not have had at the time of posting.

[Guest]

You also need a post count of five or more, which you now have, but may not have had at the time of posting.

 

They did.....

[DHutch]

One of the problems with Autism Spectrum Disorders is that they are often not obvious at first. Our son says "it's a disability not a visibility". I often think a discreet badge might make life easier for everyone. I have seen a t-shirt that said "I'm autistic, what's your problem?" But I think that is probably too in your face.

I think one of the huge issues here with things like Aspergers is that, although there is a fairly well defined trend of common symptoms there is, as well as a huge spectrum of how much any one person is effected, the fact that each person is effected in a different way. To the point where unless someone sees a larger number/spectrum of people with Aspergers, particularly with mild cases, it can be far more misleading/harmful to give it a title than not. And then what happens is the people with mild symptoms don't give it said name, so joe public's interaction and impression of the spectrum becomes that of only the people with strong and or more classic symptoms, making it even more hard for mildly effect people to describe themselves.

Equally, it all starts to get a bit woolly as to exactly what you call what and you start getting terms like 'Pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified' (PDD-NOS)

 

I have been diagnosed formally a mild form of Aspergers, amongst other autistic spectrum and learning difficulties, including at one time pdd-nos, but also as dyslexia.

 

Like the OP, my symptoms are mild enough that I would say (for me, from what ive noticed, and other have said) that to the majority of of people I meet, and in a lot of interactions I have, it is no more noticeable than any other personality differences, although I do find some situations hard to manage, deal with something differently, and notice things that I feel I do differently, if not always worse, as well as noticing that some people who have not, or else I do not know, have symptoms I recognise as being common with my own. At which point, I basically don't tell anyone anything, bar from time to time that I am dyslexic by way of a largely understood/recognised/accepted explanation for my written word, so of which is due to dyslexia, others more typical of Aspergers. It may help that I also work in engineering, where there is probably a higher percentage, but also an amount of 'well, he is an engineer' about it. "I'm an engineer" is infact probably better than "I have Aspergers" but we digress!

 

Getting back slightly. I actually feel that personally I would be better than most people buying a boat, at buying a boat. As while my understanding of some of the social/bodylanguage side of it is less good, my knowledge of boats both technically and generally is very good (probably in part due to my aspergers), and from a interaction side, I am usually fairly able to come across as confident, and my social abilities are good enough I pick up on most of it, at which point sometimes that fact that I do occasionally miss-read signs and do slightly make others uncomfortable, while still maintaining a confident approach, can actually work in my favour, while I pick holes in the technical aspects, some what related not only to technical flaws, but my general feeling for the boat/car/item, which again is something most people find less easy to counter.

The confidence thing in that is a huge part of it, and something that I have worked on and noticed improve over time, but also that has come with my (all bit it, at times slightly mixed) success in life, much of which has only come with a large amount of support from the people around me, family, parents, etc , as well as at times, formal additional tutoring. That and googling guides on 'how to a buy a....' and asking on forums like this one.

 

Getting right back to the OPs question. I'm not overly familiar, or knowledgeable about, the various options for support in these areas, and for instance bought my house with support only from my parents, estate agents etc, and what I had read online.

However there may well be formal services that can be employed with boats as it appears there is with cars, although narrowboats/canalboats are fairly different from any others, and a fairly small industry, its going to be as much individuals willing to do it for a fee, as a company offering the service, I would expect ?

But as said, the other option is to do it far less formally, with someone you know, a recommendation, or find through this site, be that a friendly boat hirer/builder/mechanic or just someone who knows about boats and is willing to lend a hand. I don't know where you are based or looking to buy a boat from, and currently I'm in Delhi with work till November, but feel free to get in touch via PM and or email. Do you use skype?

 

 

Daniel

[Chertsey]

I would second, third, whatever, contacting Starcoaster, at least as a first point of contact.

[carlt]

My son is autistic and I have extensive experience both professional and personal in buying, selling, fitting out and building boats.

 

If you are in my area (ish) I would be happy to help you out with viewings, negotiations and any other aspect of buying a boat.

I hope this is corect, to quote you when replying. I am in London, I was looking at a boat in Braunston Marina

I've just seen this.

 

I'm 8 miles from Braunston Marina and know most of the staff well so any assistance you need just let me know.

[bargemast]

My son is autistic and I have extensive experience both professional and personal in buying, selling, fitting out and building boats.

 

If you are in my area (ish) I would be happy to help you out with viewings, negotiations and any other aspect of buying a boat.

I've just seen this.

 

I'm 8 miles from Braunston Marina and know most of the staff well so any assistance you need just let me know.

 

Carl you are a kind man, and the perfect guy for a job like this, and you would surely be a great help to the OP.

 

Peter.

[Starcoaster]

We've been out to Braunston once already to look at the first boat Papodil liked- it turned out to be unsuitable (for liveaboard CC-ing: no solid fuel stove, everything 240v and no 12v sockets). We looked at another two or three, one of interest and Papodil went on a trial run on it the following week with Delta, but it is now under offer from someone else after the marina weren't able to provide sight of some of the paperwork that was mentioned in the advert but found to be unavailable to check, which became something of a dealbreaker.

We also went to Rugby boats, but there was nothing suitable there at that time, but they are going to get in touch if something comes in.

[bargemast]

We've been out to Braunston once already to look at the first boat Papodil liked- it turned out to be unsuitable (for liveaboard CC-ing: no solid fuel stove, everything 240v and no 12v sockets). We looked at another two or three, one of interest and Papodil went on a trial run on it the following week with Delta, but it is now under offer from someone else after the marina weren't able to provide sight of some of the paperwork that was mentioned in the advert but found to be unavailable to check, which became something of a dealbreaker.

We also went to Rugby boats, but there was nothing suitable there at that time, but they are going to get in touch if something comes in.

 

Nice to see that Papodils project seems already closer to reality with your help, how strange that paperwork that was mentioned in the advert wasn't available to check, that doesn't sound very serious of the broker.

Hope that the right boat will show up soon.

 

Peter.

[Stevethetrain]

I have a friend who acts as my advocate. Most of the time it works well but sometimes it can be frustrating. Another friend has a boat for sale with a residential mooring and he has cancelled two meetings so far with the friend who has the boat. I don't know what I will do if he cancels the third arranged viewing.

[harve90]

Get the boat and good luck Enjoy.

[John Williamson 1955]

So, an enquiring mind would like to know.

 

Has Papodil got a boat yet?

 

Bye!

 

John.

[Bee]

A bit off topic but my youngest has Aspergers, www.samcoopersongs.com - links to soundcloud etc. Good luck Papodil

[Starcoaster]

A couple of trips to various brokerages and a test run, but AFAIK having not spoken to Papodil for several weeks, I think he concluded that it wasn't going to work out for him.

[Stevethetrain]

The trouble with having Asperger's is negotiating. I'm trying to buy a boat in Watford and the seller dismissed most of the survey. I'm still hoping to come to an agreement over the price but it may take time.