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CJR1469

HELP K3

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I am in the process of buying a narrowboat with a K3 in her, the engine room needs to be finished off, or rather started to make it look the part, I have fallen in love with the engine. I see when the where first delivered from the factory they had a tool kit supplied with them. Now my question, does anyone know what was in the tool kit? Yes I know you are all reading this and saying silly boy, but I just thought that it would be great to finish the engine room off with the right tools.

 

Thanks for not laughing too much at me.

 

Chris

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I don't know whether you've seen this. I hadn't heard that Kelvin sold a toolbox, but they did sell a box of spares which owners were advised to have with them.

 

The most important tools are some decent whitworth spanners.

 

By the way, you'll need a gurgle bottle and a Bells' whiskey bottle to add to the authenticity of your engine room.

 

Look forward to seeing some pics.

 

k_parts_bc_zps138bf855.jpg

Edited by koukouvagia

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The contents of the tool box are listed in the engine catalogue. There may well be one on Mike Skyner's site.

 

I also expect that they would be very similar to the Model J list, which I do have. It runs to 56 items (for petrol start engines) so I am not going to type it out here. It is a mixture of tools, spares and consumables.

 

If you would like a copy PM me (you will need one more post before you can do that) and I'll scan the page and send it you.

 

N

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Thanks guys fro the help.

 

Okay I will bite, gurgle bottle?

You have to excuse the silly questions, I have been sailing for to long with stick and rags up.

 

Chris

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The gurgle bottle is the measure for the starting petrol. In a single copper and brass container it manages to combine an automatic measure and a reservoir for the petrol.

 

They have a nasty habit of discharging petrol into your engine room if (when) they warm up- the expanding air inside pushes petrol out of the spout.

 

There is a thread somewhere on here about how they work, and I think someone (rjasmith??) posted a picture.

 

N

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The gurgle bottle is the measure for the starting petrol. In a single copper and brass container it manages to combine an automatic measure and a reservoir for the petrol.

 

They have a nasty habit of discharging petrol into your engine room if (when) they warm up- the expanding air inside pushes petrol out of the spout.

 

There is a thread somewhere on here about how they work, and I think someone (rjasmith??) posted a picture.

 

N

 

Yes it was me and the picture was of the "gurgle" bottle (I wonder if the Bergius Co chaps actually used a term like that - it would have been wonderful to hear it pronounced in deepest Glaswegian!) together with another one showing the priming cock gun.

 

These were the genuine items found on the late lamented "Water Lily" ring netter that became the star of "Floating Kitchen" on her final journey to France.

 

I expect these two items went with her to the bottom of the River Marne and then were added to the pile of scrap she became subsequently - very sad!

 

Have a look at this thread first for the pictures and then this other thread should you be mad enough to want to make your own gurgle bottle!

 

Richard

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Anybody have any idea how much that box of spares would cost now? (If the bits were available).

 

Actually, they'd be about the same. In 1931 when the K series was introduced a set of rings and pistons for a K2 would have cost £10. Allowing for inflation this is nearly £600 in today's prices.

 

I've just had to buy a set of new pistons and rings which cost just a little bit less than this.

 

The Kelvins were never cheap engines, which may have been one of the reasons why they were never put in narrow

boats.

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I don't know whether you've seen this. I hadn't heard that Kelvin sold a toolbox, but they did sell a box of spares which owners were advised to have with them.

 

The most important tools are some decent whitworth spanners.

 

By the way, you'll need a gurgle bottle and a Bells' whiskey bottle to add to the authenticity of your engine room.

 

Look forward to seeing some pics.

 

 

(snipped some of it)

 

Surely KK you mean a Teachers' bottle!

 

There are still relatives of Walter Bergius (eg Adam Bergius) involved with the whisky industry and it was one of them that married one of the Teacher family if I recall correctly.

 

Richard

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. . . . then this other thread should you be mad enough to want to make your own gurgle bottle

 

post # 76 shows a picture of the genuine article; post #156 shows my adaptation of this. Note I made longer spouts to avoid the overflow problem mentioned by BEngo.

 

 

 

 

 

Surely KK you mean a Teachers' bottle!

 

There are still relatives of Walter Bergius (eg Adam Bergius) involved with the whisky industry and it was one of them that married one of the Teacher family if I recall correctly.

 

Richard

 

Yes, you're quite correct - old age and decrepitude I fear.

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The Kelvins were never cheap engines, which may have been one of the reasons why they were never put in narrow

boats.

Point of order!

NB Joel , originally a horseboat had a Kelvin fitted when converted to a motor by the LNER in 1927.

The "New" Joel , built 1948 had a Kelvin, the re-built (1989) new Joel has a Kelvin. I think I have mentioned this before. Admitted not a J or a K , Kelvin none the less.

Bill

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Point of order!

NB Joel , originally a horseboat had a Kelvin fitted when converted to a motor by the LNER in 1927.

The "New" Joel , built 1948 had a Kelvin, the re-built (1989) new Joel has a Kelvin. I think I have mentioned this before. Admitted not a J or a K , Kelvin none the less.

Bill

 

That's interesting - what happened to the boat? Is it still around?

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That's interesting - what happened to the boat? Is it still around?

See here:

http://www.brocross.com/canal/joel.htm

Some of the history is slightly inaccurate, it was written about 10 years ago.

The LNER livery has now given way to a C1950 British Waterways blue & yellow which did not feature the BTC roundel or curved "BW" on the cabin side.

Other boats that had Kelvins at some point are: ex S &CCC "Willow", as featured on this forum and the Wooden Canal Boat Society motor "Forget Me Not" neither had these originally though.

  • Greenie 1

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Gosh guys, I my have bitten off more than I cant chew.


I am afraid, i do not like Bells, so would dark rum be okay in the engine room?

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Gosh guys, I my have bitten off more than I cant chew.

I am afraid, i do not like Bells, so would dark rum be okay in the engine room?

 

Certainly not. Send the full bottle to me and I'll empty it for you before sending it back

 

Richard

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I can imagine owners of other vintage engines scratching their heads and wondering why Kelvin owners seem so concerned about whisky.

It is said that Kelvin fitted a Teacher's whisky bottle as standard equipment - it was used to collect overspill diesel. I've never seen a picture of an original whisky bottle holder - perhaps there never was one and the Kelvin whisky bottle is just part of the mythology of these engines.

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I can imagine owners of other vintage engines scratching their heads and wondering why Kelvin owners seem so concerned about whisky.

It is said that Kelvin fitted a Teacher's whisky bottle as standard equipment - it was used to collect overspill diesel. I've never seen a picture of an original whisky bottle holder - perhaps there never was one and the Kelvin whisky bottle is just part of the mythology of these engines.

 

I think it used to be quite common to just allow the injector leakoff to drain into the bilge. Wooden fishing boats, which is after all what the Kelvins were really designed for, would have been pumping the bilges regularly and it was a different era as regards attitudes to a bit of oil on the water.

 

Tim

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I know of a JP4 with a Hobgoblin can as a spill collector

 

Richard

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Part of the Tool outfit was 'Drain bottle with holder and screws' so Messrs Bergius did not expect the engine to be installed with the drain straight to the bilge.

 

I am not sure that this would have been sensible in a fishing boat anyway as in most the fish hold bilge was not separated from the rest of the bilge so if there was diesel on the bilge water there was a risk of it rising to the bottom of the fish as the ice melted and ran to bilge. Dieselly fish could be hard to sell. The smell might also have been noticed but maybe not since wooden fishing boats are pretty fishy.

 

 

N

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Also, why waste good diesel by pumping it into the North Sea? I'd always assumed the whisky bottle was a canny means of saving a bob or two. "There's many a mickle..."

 

I've done away with the whisky bottle and have the overspill drain back into the main tank.

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See here:

http://www.brocross.com/canal/joel.htm

Some of the history is slightly inaccurate, it was written about 10 years ago.

The LNER livery has now given way to a C1950 British Waterways blue & yellow which did not feature the BTC roundel or curved "BW" on the cabin side.

Other boats that had Kelvins at some point are: ex S &CCC "Willow", as featured on this forum and the Wooden Canal Boat Society motor "Forget Me Not" neither had these originally though.

As you say, Willow had an F4 Petrol-Paraffin, but not until 1980 or so. AFAIK it had the S type Petter until then.

 

Forum member Stagedamager has the F4 in his garage full of engines and keeps trying to persuade me I want it back!

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Also, why waste good diesel by pumping it into the North Sea? I'd always assumed the whisky bottle was a canny means of saving a bob or two. "There's many a mickle..."

 

I've done away with the whisky bottle and have the overspill drain back into the main tank.

This is true and I am guessing that the original drain 'bottle' may have been made of of copper or tin plate rather than glass. However, when fitting Kelvin engines to Scottish fishing vessels, the installers may have saved money on the original Kelvin gear and substituted a whiskey bottle in the knowledge that every boat would have an abundant supply of empty whisky bottles.

 

In the confined space of a narrow boat engine room which often has to double as a passageway and storage area, I think it is wise to avoid the positioning of a glass bottle in such a vulnerable location. we use an old baked been tin. And Jane has been known to kick that and send it flying from time to time!

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Incidentally, although Kelvin engines were fitted to North Sea fishing boats they were built and supplied for a much wider range of craft. Fishing boats being a relatively minor section of the overall market. The 'K' and 'J' series engines were built to meet Lloyds insurance standards for seagoing vessels (which is probably why they were so expensive) and were often fitted to coastal barges and passenger launches. Our K3 was supplied new in August 1954 and fitted to the 70 ton Thames sailing barge 'Dannebrog' which worked round the coast between London and East Anglia. The barg was subsequently used to bring materials to St Katherines dock during the reconstruction and remained there as an exhibit for many years afterwards.

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