Why not join NABO?

[Rich]

NABO are a bunch of lunartics, the canal equivalent of UKIP and even worse seem to be avid readers of the Daily Wail.

I assume from your carefully crafted post that you are a member of NABO. If not, why not, as you would seem to fit in nicely.

[alan_fincher]

 

Totally agree, I've recently come to realise this talking to boaters locally who bother little with internet forums or clubs, they have no concept of all the BS about CCing, moorings etc etc they just happily get on with boating totally oblivious to all the BS and their only contact with CART is usually when they re-licence each year.

 

The comments and bull crap that comes out on this forum are the views/fears/spin of a tiny minority of all boaters and other users of the canal system and are thus in reality completely insignificant and a total waste of time other than some occasional amusement as the OP pointed out.

 

So in your estimation if, for example CRT march in somewhere and turn it all into 48 hour maximum moorings, even though there are seldom problems with it currently all being 14 days, then that is a perfectly legitimate thing for them to do, is it, and no "law abiding" boater should possibly be concerned.

 

Actually it affects me almost not at all right now, as us staying anywhere more than 2 days is pretty unusual, but there are countless people who don't move at our kind of pace, but still stick to the rules.

 

Why should someone like, (for example), John Sloan, (Cotswoldman) suddenly find that if he wants to stay more than 2 days in a town, it will cost him £25 per day thereafter?

 

His licence, and the underlying act of parliament allow him 14 days, so why take away his right to that 14 days if he so wishes, (if it is somewhere where an abundance of 14 day moorings doesn't constitute a problem currently).

 

Just because you might be happy to move on before the penalty kicks in, doesn't mean it is a good or sensible thing for CRT to do. A lot of us opposing this kind of thing are normally completely "law abiding", but think CRT are introducing a sledgehammer to in many cases try and crack a near non-existent nut.

 

I find it a fairly selfish attitude to say just because it doesn't affect me, I'll not oppose it. One day I may well wish to move at a slower pace, and if there is no valid reason for imposing these short mooring time limits, then in my view they should be vehemently opposed.

 

It is by no means the case if you are "compliant" you need not worry. If you are currently "compliant" but them needlessly changing the rules will start to impact this, then those stupid changes need to be fought IMO.

Please feel free to point me in a direction where my perceptions can be changed.

Ask them to send you a few back issue magazines for a start. I don't think you'll find a lot that matches your perceptions in them, if you do.

[Jerra]

Yes but part of their problem is "what are NABO policies?".

 

When looking to join, I tried hard to see what they actually stand for, and (if you like) whether they had stated policies.

That I find amazing. All today's posts mentioning NABO made me decide to have alook at the website. Search box top right hand corner typed in policies and in the list of article with that word in them was at number 5 "Update on NABO policies"

 

http://nabo.org.uk/reference/nabo/486-update-of-nabo-policies

[Guest]

Good post Alan and greenie duly awarded, I really don't get the 'what CRT do doesn't affect me' attitude....

 

To use corporate jargon they seem to love 'it's mission creep'.

 

It might not affect you now but be alert to the fact it might do in the future.

[Ex- Member]

Hi Alan

 

I can assure you I'm no fan of CART

 

CART will do exactly as they please though, a few boaters moaning on an internet forum will not change or divert them from their main agenda. You are delusional if you believe otherwise. The only way you can challenge them is if someone's willing to go to court and pay for the privilege of challenging them, that's what they count on. The majority of boaters on the rivers & canals no nothing of what you mention in your post (which I agree is despicable) but to be honest they care little if it doesn't effect them.

 

Simple politics as in the real world they will walk over anyone who interferes with their agenda.

[Rusty Shackleford]

That I find amazing. All today's posts mentioning NABO made me decide to have alook at the website. Search box top right hand corner typed in policies and in the list of article with that word in them was at number 5 "Update on NABO policies"

 

http://nabo.org.uk/reference/nabo/486-update-of-nabo-policies

Nice and informative. Honestly wouldn't of guessed they were in favour of overstaying charges.

[cotswoldsman]

I think that it is simple if you want to join a group the real choice is IWA, NABO and RBOA.

RBOA seems the answer if you live on your boat NABO if you are a boat owner and IWA if you have lost your way. If none of them suit then don't join. I just wish RBOA and NABO had part time membership for those that agree with some of what they do!!

[alan_fincher]

That I find amazing. All today's posts mentioning NABO made me decide to have alook at the website. Search box top right hand corner typed in policies and in the list of article with that word in them was at number 5 "Update on NABO policies"

 

http://nabo.org.uk/reference/nabo/486-update-of-nabo-policies

I'm not sure when that page was created, but if I try and access it my virus checker says it contains a possible Trojan Horse, so I'll not be struggling to find out!

Hi Alan

 

I can assure you I'm no fan of CART

 

CART will do exactly as they please though, a few boaters moaning on an internet forum will not change or divert them from their main agenda. You are delusional if you believe otherwise. The only way you can challenge them is if someone's willing to go to court and pay for the privilege of challenging them, that's what they count on. The majority of boaters on the rivers & canals no nothing of what you mention in your post (which I agree is despicable) but to be honest they care little if it doesn't effect them.

 

Simple politics as in the real world they will walk over anyone who interferes with their agenda.

 

Delusional or otherwise a group of us plugging away at it greatly watered down their mooring restriction plans at a number of locations, and also persuaded them that they should only be seasonal.

 

So whilst we may not have achieved all we set out to do, we did actually make a significant difference in that case>

 

Had I (and others) just sat on our backsides and said "CRT will always do just what they want to, and we can't change it", the whole lot would have gone in unopposed.

 

I'm not just a keyboard warrior. I go to meetings, often miles away, and get on the phone a fair bit, (though not as much as some of the other activists!).

 

You are wrong! - we can't change everything, but we have certainly managed to change some things.

[Jerra]

You are wrong! - we can't change everything, but we have certainly managed to change some things.

And for that you deserve recognition for your efforts and thanks.

[Ex- Member]

I'm not sure when that page was created, but if I try and access it my virus checker says it contains a possible Trojan Horse, so I'll not be struggling to find out!

 

Delusional or otherwise a group of us plugging away at it greatly watered down their mooring restriction plans at a number of locations, and also persuaded them that they should only be seasonal.

 

So whilst we may not have achieved all we set out to do, we did actually make a significant difference in that case>

 

Had I (and others) just sat on our backsides and said "CRT will always do just what they want to, and we can't change it", the whole lot would have gone in unopposed.

 

I'm not just a keyboard warrior. I go to meetings, often miles away, and get on the phone a fair bit, (though not as much as some of the other activists!).

 

You are wrong! - we can't change everything, but we have certainly managed to change some things.

 

I appreciate you do actually do something Alan rather than just post on forums, and I know Cotswoldsman and others do as well.

 

I'm glad also you believe you had some success. In reality though CART are doing as they please, they will always go too far in many issues in order to be able to offer some concessions to those who oppose. It makes CART look somewhat human and makes people believe they can change things. Unfortunately the reality is as it always has been, their agenda will be reached regardless. My main point is though the vast majority of boaters know little of these issues or care until it affects them.

[blodger]

Nice and informative. Honestly wouldn't of guessed they were in favour of overstaying charges.

 

Worth saving the 25.00 membership fee for the first overstaying fine then methinks

[cotswoldsman]

Nice and informative. Honestly wouldn't of guessed they were in favour of overstaying charges.

Is that correct never realised that!! Oh well back to the drawing board, I thought they opposed the finning of boaters now I have changed my mind about NABO but as I said can not agree with everything they do.

[Neil2]

As I said in the OP I am a little bewildered by that thread, and I do wonder what the observers from C&RT make of it, but if there are members of this forum who think we are going to hell in a hand cart (no pun intended) I'm interested in why there isn't more interest in throwing some weight behind the one organisation that prioritises the needs/views of boat owners.

 

I looked at the website, the constitution and the policies statement (which really needs to be in a more obvious place on the site) and there's very little there I would disagree with. But I suspect from what other people say that there are elements in the history of NABO that have blighted the organisation and it may take some time for this to dispel.

 

3000 members is not enough for the chairman to go to C&RT and say we are the voice of the average boat owner, but get that number into double figures and I can't help but think they would start to take notice.

 

I'm not as pessimistic as some about the management of the waterways under C&RT. I was working in policy development at the time of Scottish devolution in the 1990's and I remember early reactions being quite similar in some quarters despite the overwhelming vote in favour of change. But very few would want to turn the clock back now.

 

 

 

 

[alan_fincher]

3000 members is not enough for the chairman to go to C&RT and say we are the voice of the average boat owner, but get that number into double figures and I can't help but think they would start to take notice.

I'm not sure how they count numbers, or even convinced they claim 3000 actual members, but I suspect a joint membership is being counted as 2, and very much doubt membership extends to anything like the holders of 3,000 boat licences.

 

Also don't forget some of their members will be principally on EA waters not CRT waters.

 

I don't think more than about 1,000 of the circa 35,000 CRT licences will be connected to a NABO membership, (or memberships), so probably no more that 3% representation.

 

Happy to be corrected if wrong, though!

[Jerra]

I'm not sure how they count numbers, or even convinced they claim 3000 actual members, but I suspect a joint membership is being counted as 2, and very much doubt membership extends to anything like the holders of 3,000 boat licences.

 

Also don't forget some of their members will be principally on EA waters not CRT waters.

 

I don't think more than about 1,000 of the circa 35,000 CRT licences will be connected to a NABO membership, (or memberships), so probably no more that 3% representation.

 

Happy to be corrected if wrong, though!

I have read the figure 3000 on their website today. Can't remember which page but I will have another dig.

 

EDIT: Next to the last line on this page

 

http://nabo.org.uk/join-us/why-nabo

Edited August 18, 2013 by Jerra

[sueb]

So 90% ish of boaters are unrepresented. A frightening thought

[Proud Salopian]

So 90% ish of boaters are unrepresented. A frightening thought

 

And yet few on this forum seem to take seriously the idea of a basic (ie free to join) organisation for all boaters and like-minded people, which would represent them to C&RT.

Edited August 18, 2013 by Proud Salopian

[alan_fincher]

I have read the figure 3000 on their website today. Can't remember which page but I will have another dig.

 

EDIT: Next to the last line on this page

 

http://nabo.org.uk/join-us/why-nabo

 

"NABO's growing membership represents over 3000 boaters"

 

What they certainly don't say is "we have 3000 individual members", and I'm pretty confident they do not.

 

Some careful use of words here, possibly some twist around some "members" acyually being some kind of corportate membership by some other group, such that 1 NABO membership is being claimed to cover a nmber of boaters collectively?

So 90% ish of boaters are unrepresented. A frightening thought

What does this mean? Why?

[Jerra]

 

"NABO's growing membership represents over 3000 boaters"

 

What they certainly don't say is "we have 3000 individual members", and I'm pretty confident they do not.

 

Some careful use of words here, possibly some twist around some "members" acyually being some kind of corportate membership by some other group, such that 1 NABO membership is being claimed to cover a nmber of boaters collectively?

Just checked the website 4 levels of membership.

 

Single Member = Full voting member

Family member = member at same address as Single member full voting rights.

Associate Member = no voting rights for those who support the association but don't at the moment actually own a boat.

Affiliated Member = no voting rights for clubs and organisations who wish to support the association.

[BruceinSanity]

I think that is a bit over the top surely. They try and do what they think there members want. Like any organisation some members can be outspoken but that is most probably there passion, I can find a lot more within NABO that I agree with than I could ever find within UKIP or The Daily Thingy.

IMO opinion NABO do what they think is in the best interest of boater as I said before I do not agree with everything they do but they do a lot more for boaters than the IWA

Greenie for that!

 

John, you and I really must meet up some day to see if our views are actually so close...

 

[blodger]

So 90% ish of boaters are unrepresented. A frightening thought

 

Perhaps the ball is in Nabo's court; If they want to increase membership and be more representative and, if they have been following the connected threads on here, they could offer discounted membership to CWDF contributors for a limited period?

Edited August 19, 2013 by blodger

[Tuscan]

Perhaps the ball is in Nabo's court; If they want to increase membership and be more representative and, if they have been following the connected threads on here, they could offer discounted membership to CWDF contributors for a limited period?

IMO we don't want to go down that route if you want a free membership I think you can get IWA with a subscription to the Towpath Telegraph not sure what message that sends out but thats an issue for them. For me what's needed is more members with a passion for the waterways who can volunteer some time to bring issues to CRT's or members attention that they should be aware of.

 

The daily survey of Stoke Breune visitor moorings is a great example of how much more powerful a submission to the SEVM consultation would have been if we had a similar exercise for Foxton and other sites at the time. A lesson learnt for me where in future NABO perhaps could tap into the goodwill of forum members if there was a common interest.

[blodger]

IMO we don't want to go down that route if you want a free membership I think you can get IWA with a subscription to the Towpath Telegraph not sure what message that sends out but thats an issue for them. For me what's needed is more members with a passion for the waterways who can volunteer some time to bring issues to CRT's or members attention that they should be aware of.

 

The daily survey of Stoke Breune visitor moorings is a great example of how much more powerful a submission to the SEVM consultation would have been if we had a similar exercise for Foxton and other sites at the time. A lesson learnt for me where in future NABO perhaps could tap into the goodwill of forum members if there was a common interest.

 

I am not after free membership. The OP says why not NABO. I am just thinking that NABO has an opportunity to recruit if it wants to and, an incentive might help

Even if CaRT deigns only to communicate with them regarding boaty things they need to do something to be more attractive to the majority of boaters!

Edited August 19, 2013 by blodger

[mrsmelly]

So 90% ish of boaters are unrepresented. A frightening thought

Sue

 

Why pray tell me do I need " Representing " by anyone. I and most other boaters are big boys and girls and simply represent ourselves. Not that I have ever needed representing, I abide by the very few easy rules like most others do and get on with it. I have NEVER had any cause for concern with Bwb, Bw Or as yet CART. In fact I have only ever found them all to be helpfull whenever I have needed to contact them.

 

Tim

[blodger]

Sue

 

Why pray tell me do I need " Representing " by anyone. I and most other boaters are big boys and girls and simply represent ourselves. Not that I have ever needed representing, I abide by the very few easy rules like most others do and get on with it. I have NEVER had any cause for concern with Bwb, Bw Or as yet CART. In fact I have only ever found them all to be helpfull whenever I have needed to contact them.

 

Tim

 

Other vested interests in BW/CaRT Have better input into them than 'boaters' . That may in part be down to lack of boaters membership of 'associations' purporting to represent boaters and whatever one thinks of the representation they make.

In some ways, I agree with you, it should not be necessary but I see the end point being myself and others giving up boating.